Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

dcontroversal · Mar 12, 2017

Saying that sin shall not have dominion over you means you are no longer beholden to it's power because--> greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world...This does not mean that you will never fail and or sin...hence the great men of the bible listed in this thread.......the ability to have a moment of weakness and fail is ever present until we get a glorified body.....

1ofthem · Mar 12, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Amen and thank God for posts like these. People need to hear the truth.

Anyone who says they never sin is deceiving themselves and possibly others. It is dangerous to make a claim of perfectionism because in doing so other people are misled.

I've been there and wasted much of my life being what they call where I went to church "backslid" due to the fact that I thought I was the only one that ever made a mistake and sinned. I didn't want to be a hypocrite so with a broken heart, I just turned away from God because I didn't not feel worthy of him if I made any mistake.

The thing about it though, is God never turned away from me and he was always there with me. I just didn't understand because the way that I had been taught that I must be perfect in order for God to love me. But thank God he did eventually get my attention and I began to see things more clearly. God is a loving, merciful, and forgiving God.

And like someone else quoted ...His Grace is sufficient for me for his strength is made perfect in weakness...We don't have to give up or run and try to hide if we make a mistake we can simply just go to Jesus and he can and will strengthen us when we take it to him.

dcontroversal · Mar 12, 2017

1ofthem said:

Amen and thank God for posts like these. People need to hear the truth.

Anyone who says they never sin is deceiving themselves and possibly others. It is dangerous to make a claim of perfectionism because in doing so other people are misled.

I've been there and wasted much of my life being what they call where I went to church "backslid" due to the fact that I thought I was the only one that ever made a mistake and sinned. I didn't want to be a hypocrite so with a broken heart, I just turned away from God because I didn't not feel worthy of him if I made any mistake.

The thing about it though, is God never turned away from me and he was always there with me. I just didn't understand because the way that I had been taught that I must be perfect in order for God to love me. But thank God he did eventually get my attention and I began to see things more clearly. God is a loving, merciful, and forgiving God.

And like someone else quoted ...His Grace is sufficient for me for his strength is made perfect in weakness...We don't have to give up or run and try to hide if we make a mistake we can simply just go to Jesus and he can and will strengthen us when we take it to him.

AMEN and the truth is the truth......this is the truth........end of story!

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

1ofthem said:

This is what church can become, an appearance of something that is not real.
It is why personal testimony, confession of faith and struggling is really important.

When you go to church but really do not know anyone, that is when things fall apart.
What is friendship and what is intimacy?

If I met you, would I meet you, or the person you hope I might like?
We all play this game, but we are loved as we are, with our personal expressions,
strengths and weaknesses. There are no exceptions.

But in all honesty do you love what you see?

Christ does so why can you not? And if you find it hard to love yourself or what you
think of yourself, how can you let others love you?

And how can you expect others to be honest and open if one is not even showing who
we are?

Being real, is harder than you think, because we all walk around with an idea of who we
are in our heads that is often far from the beautiful reality of the person God loves.

I wish I could honestly embrace each one of you, and in your place walk through the
blessings you are to others, and how much the Lord appreciates your contributions.

Giving a cup of water to a child of the king, is worthy of reward. Expressing His glorious
love to another, is worthy of reward. Yet we dishonour as these small steps as not the
same as preaching, expressing in words this love, when it is the same, one is a description
of the other which is the action.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Sounds like dc you are a closed book.
In Jesus I am an open book.

You claim to follow Jesus, to walk in His ways, to be going to heaven, so brother we
are brothers, with the same theology, beliefs and ideologies. Unless ofcourse you are
not submitting to the mind of Christ.

Now if I am failing to submit to the mind of Christ I would like to learn where and how?

It strikes me within cc, much has changed in the united camp of grace. Is this because
actually it was a mirage, and the realities of walking in Christ are more complex that the
simplistic story line being preached?

The problem with overly simplistic story lines is they are quick to preach and quick to accept,
which is why they spread so far and quickly. There failure is when you start comparing the
ideas to both life and Jesus they fall apart.

So please dear friend, rebuke and show me my failure before the Lord. I am merely a meek
follower willing to learn. But are you really the teacher you claim to be?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 13, 2017

Utah said:

hmm, I thought we were mythbusters.. HA HA!! lol. Love that term though, "Pharisee Slayer" where is buffy when you need her?? lol

eternally-gratefull · Mar 13, 2017

1ofthem said:

Amen and thank God for posts like these. People need to hear the truth.

Anyone who says they never sin is deceiving themselves and possibly others. It is dangerous to make a claim of perfectionism because in doing so other people are misled.

I've been there and wasted much of my life being what they call where I went to church "backslid" due to the fact that I thought I was the only one that ever made a mistake and sinned. I didn't want to be a hypocrite so with a broken heart, I just turned away from God because I didn't not feel worthy of him if I made any mistake.

The thing about it though, is God never turned away from me and he was always there with me. I just didn't understand because the way that I had been taught that I must be perfect in order for God to love me. But thank God he did eventually get my attention and I began to see things more clearly. God is a loving, merciful, and forgiving God.

And like someone else quoted ...His Grace is sufficient for me for his strength is made perfect in weakness...We don't have to give up or run and try to hide if we make a mistake we can simply just go to Jesus and he can and will strengthen us when we take it to him.

Ah the danger of legalism. See you were stung by it also!!

gb9 · Mar 13, 2017

PeterJens said:

peter, many on here , including me, have shown you errors many, many times. but you attack us, as you will do here, instead of actually looking back and possibly seeing errors.

no one can show you anything unless you are wiling to open your eyes ( not feelings, not your heart ) but your EYES and look.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 13, 2017

gb9 said:

I love how he said DC is a closed Book, While He is an open book.. when reality shows the exact opposite..

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

An interesting approach I came across with certain religious groups.

You are a true disciple if you just accept what is being taught, and desire to see more
of the teaching rather than test it, and question its validity.

In these groups the oracles are above all. If you show any doubt or even put an alternative
you are rejected as heretical. The answer to any point is the statement of the oracle. End
of story.

God never works like this. He is always inviting discussion and debate, literally walking in the light
seeing the different aspects of a situation.

Take Israel. The Lord says, "I want to dump them, they are moaning rebellious people of little value,
a pain, not worthy of me. Moses I will build a people from you, so much better."
Moses responds "This will dishonour your name and your promises. People will say of you that Israel
believed you and you destroyed them"

And the Lord said to me, “I have seen this people, and they are a stiff-necked people indeed! 14 Let me alone, so that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven. And I will make you into a nation stronger and more numerous than they.
Deut 9:13-14

I prayed to the Lord and said, “Sovereign Lord, do not destroy your people, your own inheritance that you redeemed by your great power and brought out of Egypt with a mighty hand. 27 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Overlook the stubbornness of this people, their wickedness and their sin. 28 Otherwise, the country from which you brought us will say, ‘Because the Lord was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the wilderness.’ 29 But they are your people, your inheritance that you brought out by your great power and your outstretched arm.”
Deut 9:26-29

So let us discuss everything and let us walk in the light and fully understand everything
for this is the way of the Lord.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

gb9 said:

gb9 - I am sorry. What are these errors you are talking about?

Do you know love in your heart, healed, refreshed praising the Lord most High?
Do you go to His word and see life flowing into who your are and look to Him to
see the wonders He will perform today?

This is where I am. I look for opportunities to share this love and His righteousness,
that redeems us from the pit of Hell and death.

I do not recognise either what you call an attack, or error. Rather like this statement
you allude to much, but it is your who are resisting the word of the Lord to your hearts.

Blessed be the name of the Lord, blessed be your glorious Name.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

gb9 said:

This statement says we need to open eyes, which can only see this world, not our hearts or our
feelings.

This summarises what the hard hearted say.

The charismatic movement was founded on the love, heartfelt response to the love
Christ showers on us, and how our hearts sing in response to this.

Dear Lord, break into the hearts of those who claim your name yet are so closed down
they have lost the ability to feel love and your word speaking to them.

We need to care, to have hearts of flesh that have compassion of love for our fellow
man and his state lost in sin and the fear of death,

In Jesus's name I ask this,

Amen.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

"Peter...like I said....we will never agree...different theologies, ideologies and beliefs...."

This is a closed book statement.
"we will never agree" is an eternal statement, by definition a closed book.

"different theologies, ideologies and beliefs" again is saying we are not both
christians, again by definition when we believe very similar things, a closed book

I do not mind people being what they are, but I will recognise a dismissive approach
which is actually admiting defeat to the real arguments which are too difficult to face.

This is the opposite what it means to follow Christ and the truth.
But then testimonies from the select team, are just typical of their contributions and
approach.

What I become very aware of is God waits until we have walked the path we want
to walk, and then the truth of our testimony is plain to all. It is easy to prey on the
weak and those who do not see very well, but it ends in a place of destruction.

Depleted · Mar 13, 2017

PeterJens said:

I joined a church where all the other women wore dresses or skirts, yet I came in (clean) jeans. After I stuck around, one of my friends said the church (their emergency funds) would take me out clothes shopping. I was between jobs, so I thought that was why -- for job interviews. And I swallowed my pride and accepted the offer. With three new outfits (dresses and skirts) in my closet, the following Sunday, I went to church in my (clean) jeans. My friend was shocked and asked why, so I explained to her I was saving the new clothes for job interviews. Only later did I discover I was supposed to dress up to fit in. By the time I was told this, everyone already accepted I'm a jeans kind of gal.

The person who explained about why they took me out to go clothes shopping was one of the guys in that church. He and I had become friends, and then he asked me on a date. Within a week after that date, we were engaged. Only after he kindly asked me to clean the kitty litter box more often, did I clean my apartment. I wanted him to see who I really was, and, from who I really was, he asked only two things of me. Clean the kitty litter box and chose between him and my long-haired cat. (The short-haired cat he could tolerate.) He watched me silently mull over if he went or the cat went for a good 15 minutes. He won. He's my husband.

You may hide behind a mask for the world to see, but me? I is what I is. That's why hubby and I were engaged so fast. We never hid who we were to each other. I always figured if God has seen me hugging the porcelain throne with a hangover and still choose me, exactly who am I hiding from that is worth pretending to be what I am not?

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

On this statement. It is simply stating I am lying. Now with the best will in the world, this
kind of statement is just an attack, a mocking, saying how idiotic is this person saying here
is someone who is so open a closed person.

Now if people had the kind curtosey to read why I said this, they might understand when
a brother says to another brother "we can never agree, your faith is totally different to mine",
yet claiming to both be christians, this has to be a lie, totally missleading, and a kind of slur.

Even Paul who opposed the pharisees was happy to stay a pharisee because their teaching
in the law of Moses was not wrong, but how they lived it. He saw love as its fulfillment, the
very goal he hoped to achieve in being a Jew, yet he found it alone in Jesus.

And Paul always held there is one way to walk, in the light and in love.
So this attitude being displayed here is neither in love or walking in the light.

It has always struck me the wounds of legalism are probably the hardest in Christs grace
to be healed from, because everything appears to be an obligation rather than a privilege.

When I went on a parenting course the leader said we needed to learn how to love our
children. My response inside was very much, I love them, and show it openly, but when
anger and frustration rise, it is dealing with this and channeling it in appropriate ways that
is often difficult.

You do not choose to love Christ, you either do or do not. It is a question of working this
love out to others and your life that is the task of discipleship, which it appears many have
missed. Maybe they have even missed the first steps as well, I do not know, but I do
continually wonder at the animosity expressed here.

Sirk · Mar 13, 2017

PeterJens said:

Then why are you here? I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here. It's funny how so many people around here talk about how they are the best Christian. That they are the ones "walking in the light". That they are the ones who know how other people should be. That they are the ones who are open and others are the ones who are closed. That they are the ones who know how others should be walking out their lives. That they are the ones who understand God the best.....and it all reminds me of.......

20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him.
21 “What is it you want?” he asked.
She said, “Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.”
22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?”
“We can,” they answered.
23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”
24 When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers.25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

Emotional honesty

Each contributor how do you feel about their contribution when you see it.
Encouraging? Critical? Divisive? A blessing?

It makes me wonder how people feel, because I get the distinct impression,
some share only for an agenda, rather than as the Lord leads.

I know in Christ we are brothers and sisters, going to spend eternity together,
so maybe we can get a bit of practice in before hand.

Paul says

"So that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Rom 15:6

Even after knowing bdf, I must love you all, because I walk with
this promise in my heart, and know in Christ you too can walk this
way, because the ways and principles of love are simple, though
our expression vary depending on our individual personalities, Amen.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

Sirk said:

Sirk - Translation filter. I am not the best christian, or the example to follow etc.

I am saying simply, walking in the light is being open and not closed, identifying honestly
differences and similarities in experience and in life. It is about respecting even when it
hurts, and giving everyone a fair hearing.

Now if you are rejecting this approach, which I am not saying you are, I feel that would
be an error, in Christ and in life.

Or is christianity for many just choosing a camp and then shooting anyone who is the
enemy who comes close?

This has never been my approach.
When Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life" He put His reputation on the line
just like we should or we are dishonouring Him and His way.

But are you prepared to become a disciple like this? To die for His name?

Sirk · Mar 13, 2017

PeterJens said:

Sirk - Translation filter. I am not the best christian, or the example to follow etc.

I am saying simply, walking in the light is being open and not closed, identifying honestly
differences and similarities in experience and in life. It is about respecting even when it
hurts, and giving everyone a fair hearing.

Now if you are rejecting this approach, which I am not saying you are, I feel that would
be an error, in Christ and in life.

Or is christianity for many just choosing a camp and then shooting anyone who is the
enemy who comes close?

This has never been my approach.
When Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life" He put His reputation on the line
just like we should or we are dishonouring Him and His way.

But are you prepared to become a disciple like this? To die for His name?

If I said that I would be bragging and Peter bragged...then he denied. My mouth doesn't write checks my body or my will may not be able to cash.

PeterJens · Mar 13, 2017

Sirk said:

I think people read contributions too quickly.
Putting everything on the line, is an attitude of the heart, not bragging.
And I do it everyday, sharing with others, and here on cc.
It is a statement of fact.

Now dying for Christ is hopefully what we will all do, dying confessing Christ is our
Lord. And after the resurrection and pentecost, Peter did die for Christ.

And I think it is important for all of us to realise, when that insane nutcase puts a
gun to our heads and asks do we believe in Christ, no matter what you say, he will
kill you, so much better dying to Christs glory, than die denying His name.

And the choice we make in life are actually made in the here and now, its the fruit
you meet in the future. So when you make your mind now, you find out whether your
foundation is as secure as you would like it to be.

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