Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[PeterJens]

But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit
1 cor 6:17

So if we are united with the Lord, being one with him in spirit, we are pure,
holy, washed clean, walking righteously, knowing communion day in day out.

Amen

I am glad we are all in agreement, the people of God are a holy people walking
in Gods ways and holiness. Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:21

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:15-16

Ok a lot of people fall and fail. It is good to know ones weakness and frailties.
It is also important to know our calling the and power of the cross and the Holy
Spirit within. Paul and Peter are calling us to live Holy lives, literally Holy lives
not just imputed Holy lives with a Holy covering but for real.

It means you need to go to Christ and ask Him for faith, more of the Holy Spirit
and face your issues for real this time, not just half heartedly.
If Paul and Peter could face this then so can we.

 

[dcontroversal]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:21

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:15-16

Ok a lot of people fall and fail. It is good to know ones weakness and frailties.
It is also important to know our calling the and power of the cross and the Holy
Spirit within. Paul and Peter are calling us to live Holy lives, literally Holy lives
not just imputed Holy lives with a Holy covering but for real.

It means you need to go to Christ and ask Him for faith, more of the Holy Spirit
and face your issues for real this time, not just half heartedly.
If Paul and Peter could face this then so can we.

You already said you think the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat trick that does not work right? So...How can you even say you believe the above verses.....

 

[FreeNChrist]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:21

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy."
1 Peter 1:15-16

Ok a lot of people fall and fail. It is good to know ones weakness and frailties.
It is also important to know our calling the and power of the cross and the Holy
Spirit within. Paul and Peter are calling us to live Holy lives, literally Holy lives
not just imputed Holy lives with a Holy covering but for real.

It means you need to go to Christ and ask Him for faith, more of the Holy Spirit
and face your issues for real this time, not just half heartedly.
If Paul and Peter could face this then so can we.

Its a shame you have that need to go beyond the truth and turn it into a lie.

 

[PeterJens]

You already said you think the imputed righteousness of Christ is a neat trick that does not work right? So...How can you even say you believe the above verses.....

dc - Let me see how well you can think through ideas.
1. People with love and the Holy Spirit in their hearts, washed clean by Christs blood are
holy, pure and righteous if they walk by the Spirit.
2. God does not find fault with these people of faith because of what Christ has done in
cleansing them.

We are chosen as the elect to be made Holy and Blameless in His sight.
It is not we are some bunch of sinners and God put on the Holy Blameless specs
and only sees Holy and Blameless.

Now with Holy washed people you can build a Holy Temple.

But ofcourse people in your view cannot be holy or blameless, forgiven, purified.
It is only because Christ is seen covering it like a fake righteousness and fake walk,
so even sin is not sin anymore, rebellion is not rebellion, it is all ok.

Nowhere is scripture is this ever done. Fake believers, fake chosen people, fake
religion all destroyed by God, seriously destroyed and burnt up. So either people
get real about blatant sin or it is all a waste of time.

Jesus criticised the pharisees for there fake religion hiding sin and claiming it
was ok, while sinners were repenting, confessing their sins and coming to faith,
walking in love and victory. Take Ananias and Sapharia. One small lie, a little
exaguration, death. But you do and carry on as you please because we are only
human after all. ....

You have been warned and shown from scripture the plain truth.

 

[PeterJens]

Its a shame you have that need to go beyond the truth and turn it into a lie.

FNC - It is hard to take scripture that says "Be Holy because I am holy" and say
this is not saying we need to be Holy.

It is like saying going into a house that says clean clothing only, and you go in dirty
but with a coat on, that is ok, because the coat is covering up the mess.

Nope. The sign is simple, get clean and walk in it. Now I know what I am saying
because this same problem faced me with Christ. But He showed me who he was
and changed me as a result. Can I say how many will really walk this path? No.

Jesus says few search and few find. That speaks enough to me about reality.

What puts people on the rebellious side is saying the word of God is lying.
God does not lie.

 

[dcontroversal]

dc - Let me see how well you can think through ideas.
1. People with love and the Holy Spirit in their hearts, washed clean by Christs blood are
holy, pure and righteous if they walk by the Spirit.
2. God does not find fault with these people of faith because of what Christ has done in
cleansing them.

We are chosen as the elect to be made Holy and Blameless in His sight.
It is not we are some bunch of sinners and God put on the Holy Blameless specs
and only sees Holy and Blameless.

Now with Holy washed people you can build a Holy Temple.

But ofcourse people in your view cannot be holy or blameless, forgiven, purified.
It is only because Christ is seen covering it like a fake righteousness and fake walk,
so even sin is not sin anymore, rebellion is not rebellion, it is all ok.

Nowhere is scripture is this ever done. Fake believers, fake chosen people, fake
religion all destroyed by God, seriously destroyed and burnt up. So either people
get real about blatant sin or it is all a waste of time.

Jesus criticised the pharisees for there fake religion hiding sin and claiming it
was ok, while sinners were repenting, confessing their sins and coming to faith,
walking in love and victory. Take Ananias and Sapharia. One small lie, a little
exaguration, death. But you do and carry on as you please because we are only
human after all. ....

You have been warned and shown from scripture the plain truth.

Funny you reference the Pharisees....because that is exactly the type of doctrine you personify.........

 

[PeterJens]

How is so many are lost in the simple words of Christ?

Would they rather walk in the lusts of the flesh as if they make more sense.
Now I continually go back to the theme of love. It is odd then some have told
me I do not know what love is.

Love is Christ dying on the cross because of our sins, and forgiving us.
That love is astounding and all embracing.

 

[PeterJens]

Funny you reference the Pharisees....because that is exactly the type of doctrine you personify.........

dc - I am not a pharisee because I actually believe in love and loving people,
in integrity and truth, in purification of the heart.

The pharisees were self indulgent and greedy.
And in truth we could all fall into their trap if we compromise on sin and let
self interest get the better of us.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Same ole, same ole.. lol

 

[Mackenzie127]

Same ole, same ole.. lol

It's like they actually believe that they will make their adversaries change their minds.

 

[PeterJens]

It's like they actually believe that they will make their adversaries change their minds.

It is a good point, but exploring how and why people express things the way they
do can illuminate a lot about the issues around such discussion which are as important
as the discussions themselves.

To put this in context a lot of the way we approach issues is as much a part of our culture
as the issues themselves. Each culture has its own assumptions about what life is and how
it is structured, which needs to be addressed both the gaps and the emphasis.

For instance if my race and language close things down before I start speaking another
person with a different background might be more applicable.

So though it may seem like a repetition for me, every new encounter is a new experience.

 

[wsblind]

It's like they actually believe that they will make their adversaries change their minds.

Naw,we know that won't happen.

Whether I am putting up truth or not. The other side always needs to be presented.

If workers for salvation just had free reign...........imagine what the readers would do.

 

[FreeNChrist]

James 5:19-20 - "My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back, you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back from wandering will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins."

 

[wsblind]

James 5:19-20 - "My dear brothers and sisters, if someone among you wanders away from the truth and is brought back, you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back from wandering will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins."

Good verse to read this morning. I know I can get ahead of myself way to fast and motives become unclear, this brings it back to the truth of the matter.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's like they actually believe that they will make their adversaries change their minds.

I guess Jesus was stupid to inspire PAUL to write...

PREACH the word and to be instant in season and out of season<--when they need it and when they don't need it!

 

[dcontroversal]

Naw,we know that won't happen.

Whether I am putting up truth or not. The other side always needs to be presented.

If workers for salvation just had free reign...........imagine what the readers would do.

Probably one of the biggest problems today is the fact that people who know the bible will not stand up and la it on the line...

JUDE (under inspiration) said to diligently contend for the faith (system of teaching found in the word)
Paul told Timothy to fight the good fight as a GOOD soldier of the truth (paraphrase)
How shall they hear if one is not sent
Preach it in season and out of season

Those who sit on the sidelines and refuse to defend the truth are as guilty and by association as guilty as those who corrupt the truth IMO!

 

[valiant]

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

So holiness is a done deal for all Christians. But it takes a little longer for some than for others

 

[dcontroversal]

So holiness is a done deal for all Christians. But it takes a little longer for some than for others

MANY like to establish their own righteousness by their own deeds instead of understanding that the righteousness of Christ has been applied by faith through grace as a GIFT which makes one a SAINT<---HOLY ONE

 

[limey410]

MANY like to establish their own righteousness by their own deeds instead of understanding that the righteousness of Christ has been applied by faith through grace as a GIFT which makes one a SAINT<---HOLY ONE

I agree 100, People always want to take credit for what was accomplished on the cross by pointing it back to their own self righteous works.
Folks don't understand the historical context of the Bible and that it is a testimony of the work that God was accomplishing (and is still)
Also that the early church struggled (they were after all new believers). The disciples didn't understand Jesus teachings during His Ministry as is apparent in the Scriptures, they received the Holy Spirit in the exact same way we did, sometime after Christs crucifixion. When they walked physically with Jesus they were just as spiritually dead as we were before our salvation. YES they were human beings, just like us.

Paul's understanding of Grace was far more mature than James for example, and James and Paul openly disagreed with each other. James didn't even really think a Gentile could be saved without converting to Judaism and barely accepted it when it happened with Cornelius and continued his ministry converting Gentiles to Judaism first.
So people point to James when they want to establish and argument for following the sect of the pharisees (Book of Acts) and then go to Paul when they've sinned so much that they want Grace to cover it all up. Wash, rinse, repeat.

So with that in mind the teachings of James and Paul differ. Not out of unbelief of the Holy Spirit, but out of a different understanding of how we are to walk with the Holy Spirit when we received it.

If we read the scriptures from an historical and Judaic perspective we can understand them so much more clearly and stop just pulling random verses and trying to justify our whole message/walk of faith etc, with those little nuggets, and not understand the wholeness of it all.

I see people on this site pulling verses out all the time to justify their current argument, but we walk with the gift of the Creator of the Universe living inside of us to guide us, if we would only spend some time listening to Him.

The Bible gives us a tangible understanding/reference to the character of God, but it is not a full instruction guide on how to live a Christian life, it surely can be used for instruction but the author of the Bible is that instructor, if we focus so much on the words of the book and little on the author we will miss the mark.

It is a learning, growing process by which we walk with the Living God, in a personal, living and interactive relationship with the author of the book.