Three Days and Three Nights

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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#141
#141
This thread's three years old! If it hasn't been argued to death by now, maybe we ought to take it out back and shoot it.
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#142
Aug 28, 2011
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#142
Perhaps a slight rewording of the OP will make it little more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is using common Jewish idomatic language. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
 
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Jeff_56

Banned
#143
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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#143
pretty good for a gentile website/forum. this fits all GOD'S WORD/SCRIPTURE/TORAH. ThaT'S much better than the alternatives which contradict several Scriptures.

Jasher said:
When reading the synoptic Gospels one could easily believe that they were talking about the weekly Sabbath. But John who wrote his Gospel some 30 years later corrected the historical record of the event. He tells us that it was a "High Sabbath." The high Sabbath was the first day of unleavened bread. A high Sabbath was not as strict as the weekly Sabbath in that you could do some necessary work.

So what this means is that Jesus could have been crucified on any day of the week. And so I backed up the day of the crucifixion just enough so that there was a full three days for Him to be in the tomb.

The Jewish day changed when three medium stars appeared in the sky. This would have been approximately 7:00PM.

The evening (Tamid) sacrifice occurred at 2:30PM everyday. On Passover it was moved back to 1:30 in order to sacrifice all of these 10's of thousands of lambs. In order to do this all of the Priests came into the Temple to assist. They did this bucket brigade style.

So the timetable looks like this...

3rd day, Nissan 13th - Lambs sacrificed in late afternoon
4th day, Nissan 14th Passover day - Lambs roasting until probably 9-11 O'clock? Celebrated Passover until late
4th day, Jesus arrested probably after midnight was tried the next morning early.
4th day, Jesus crucified - travailed between noon and three o'clock.
4th day, Disciples rushed to interr him before the start of the High Sabbath (Unleavened Bread) at 7:00PM
5th day, In the tomb from 7:00PM until 7:00 Pm - one full day
6th day, In the tomb from 7:00PM until 7:00PM - two full days
7th day, In the tomb from 7:00PM until 7:00PM - three full days.
1st day, (First day of the week) Arose at 7:00PM (Theoretically) (Start of Sunday)
1st day, Followers arrive at the tomb early to find He had already arisen. Record doesn't say when He arose.
1st day, This timetable shows a 12 hour lapse between when He arose and when His followers arrived at the Tomb.
Click to expand...
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#144
#144
I can spell N-E-C-R-O-T-H-R-E-A-D. Can you?
 
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Jeff_56

Banned
#145
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#145
no.


my mind by grace is in Christ Jesus renewed and thinking on pure and holy things in union with the Father in Heaven

and entirely immersed in HIM and in HIS WORD and HIS WORD abiding in me. thank you YAHWEH !
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#146
#146
Hoo-boy! Not self-righteous much, are we?
 
WebersHome

WebersHome

Senior Member
#147
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#147
-
Viligant_Warrior said:
This thread's three years old! If it hasn't been argued to death by now,
maybe we ought to take it out back and shoot it.
Click to expand...
No kidding! Somebody needs to put this thing out of its misery; especially
seeing as how supposed adults are not even up to the level of arithmetic
that most kids have already mastered by the time they're only 8 years old.

==============================================
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#148
Aug 28, 2011
723
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#148
Viligant_Warrior,
re: "This thread's three years old!"

And it will continue to get older until someone comes up with some writing or a mod closes it.
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#149
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#149
Very simply, reference to a day can be fulfilled by any part of that day; and reference to a night can refer to any part of a night.



If Jesus were crucified on Friday:

Friday night and Saturday would be 1 night and 1 day. Saturday night Sunday would be 2 nights and 2 days.

There is NO WAY to get 3 nights and 3 days from Friday to Sunday!


Jesus was crucified on Thursday Abib 14. From burial to sundown counts as 1 day. Thursday night Friday counts 1 night 2 days. Friday night Saturday counts 2 nights 3 days. Saturday night is the third night; and Jesus arose before dawn Sunday.

The Sabbath which was approaching was the Levitical Sabbath of Friday, Abib 15 (which began at sundown Thursday).
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#150
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
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#150
A further rewording of the OP may make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#151
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#151
rstrats said:
Perhaps a slight rewording of the OP will make it little more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is using common Jewish idomatic language. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights?
Click to expand...
And so also the Jerusalem Talmud: 'R. Akiba fixed a DAY for an onah, and a NIGHT for an onah.' But the tradition is, that R. Eliazar ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an onah: and a PART of an onah is as the WHOLE. And a little after, R. Ismael computed a part of the onah for the whole."

Using these methods three days and three nights could mean part of an onah, an onah and part of an onah, thus the first to the third day, The vast majority of references say that Jesus rose on the third day (thus Friday to Sunday).
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#152
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
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#152
valiant,

Are you a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate? And if so, do you say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language? And if so, what writings from the period do you use to say that the usage was common?
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#153
#153
valiant said:
And so also the Jerusalem Talmud: 'R. Akiba fixed a DAY for an onah, and a NIGHT for an onah.' But the tradition is, that R. Eliazar ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an onah: and a PART of an onah is as the WHOLE. And a little after, R. Ismael computed a part of the onah for the whole."

Using these methods three days and three nights could mean part of an onah, an onah and part of an onah, thus the first to the third day, The vast majority of references say that Jesus rose on the third day (thus Friday to Sunday).
Click to expand...
this is a good example...

but it won't work...as you can see everyone has pretty much given up on convincing this person...he just doesn't accept any answer other than the one he wants to hear...
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#154
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
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#154
RachelBibleStudent,
re: "this is a good example..."

No, it is not. It doesn't provide an actual example of writing from the first century or before where a daytime was counted as a daytime or where a night time was counted as a night time when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time occurred.



re: "but it won't work...as you can see everyone has pretty much given up on convincing this person...he just doesn't accept any answer other than the one he wants to hear..."

That's because no one's answer has supplied the information requested in the OP.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#155
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,951
113
#155
Marc knows Hebrew and the Jewish traditions since his boyhood. Part of a day is a day! So Friday, Sat, Sunday! 3 days!

It doesn't get much simpler than that!
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#156
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
28
#156
Angela53510,

Do you say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language?
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#157
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
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#157
Angela53510,
re: "Marc knows Hebrew and the Jewish traditions since his boyhood."


And he says that the crucifixion took place on the 5th day of the week.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#158
#158
rstrats said:
RachelBibleStudent,
re: "this is a good example..."

No, it is not. It doesn't provide an actual example of writing from the first century or before where a daytime was counted as a daytime or where a night time was counted as a night time when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time occurred.



re: "but it won't work...as you can see everyone has pretty much given up on convincing this person...he just doesn't accept any answer other than the one he wants to hear..."

That's because no one's answer has supplied the information requested in the OP.
Click to expand...
the rabbis cited were first century sources...
 
R

rstrats

Senior Member
#159
Aug 28, 2011
723
42
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#159
RachelBibleStudent,
re: "the rabbis cited were first century sources..."


I don't see where they provided any actual examples from the first century which showed where a daytime and/or a night time was counted as a daytime or a night time when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#160
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#160
rstrats said:
valiant,

Are you a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate? And if so, do you say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language? And if so, what writings from the period do you use to say that the usage was common?
Click to expand...
well I don't really get excited about it LOL as it makes little difference.

But Scripture many times speaks of the resurrection as on the third day. So yes I go for the day of preparation (Friday). And I think Matt 12.40 used idiomatic language. See Esther 4.16 with 5.1.

As the Jerusalem Talmud says: 'R. Akiba fixed a DAY for an onah, and a NIGHT for an onah.' But the tradition is, that R. Eliazar ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an onah: and a PART of an onah is as the WHOLE. And a little after, R. Ismael computed a part of the onah for the whole."

using Wednesday or Thursday leaves the problem as to why the women waited as long as they did. The Jews never observed two Sabbaths in succession/
 
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