Through the book of Acts rightly divided

[RomansToPhilemon]

Which is great it is always good to present to people the truth/thruth's, I notice you word this "share the mystery truth's" which is so in the many years I myself looked into dispensationism one of the hardest positions to defend was that Paul was the only one to receive the mystery and why is as fast as I said it I was shown that not only did Paul receive the mystery/mysteries but that also John also received the explanation of a great many mysteries in the Revelation. i.e. "I will shew thee the mystery"ect... Anyway I meant no offence but rather in a form of help.

Well, Paul states the mystery given to him cannot be found in other books of our bible. Also, Paul's mysteries have very little to do with the book of Revelation. Revelation is about the kingdom on earth. The books from Romans-Philemon are about the kingdom in heaven where the body of Christ will reside.

Hence, Col 1.1-3 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

And 2 Cor 5.1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

God has two realms he will reposes. The heaven and the earth. Israel will rule and reign with Christ on earth, while we the body of Christ, will rule and reign with Christ in heaven. The people in the Old Testament and those in the future tribulation are always looking for a kingdom on earth. Not until you get to the apostle Paul do you ever see the bible talk about people going to heaven and staying there. Only until the fulness of times will God bring together both realms. There is not much talked about what all this means. Something to look forward to I suppose.

Eph 1.9-10
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

I believe the day of Pentecost was when the disciples were saved and the day the church began as they had preached to devout Jews from all nations on that day in Christ winning converts through them.

I understand that they had to preach to the nation of Israel first before God judged Israel as rejecting the chief cornerstone before the gospel was permitted to go to the Gentiles, but the church did began at Pentecost before Paul was saved.

According to what scriptures? There are none.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

(matthew 28:18-20)

but can i ask you a simple question? is the church considered the body of Christ?

Church just means called out assembly. The church the body of Christ. The church in the book of Acts. The church with Moses.

Ephesians 1:10 says that in the fullness of times all things will be gathered together in Christ. Only from that vantage point can we see the saints from all time in union.
However, if we step back into history where the times have not been fulfilled, then we find that God has delivered different instructions to humanity at different times. Those instructions change the message of the church. Some even change the nature of the church.

Dispensational Bible study, at its core, attempts to understand these differences and reconcile them to God’s eternal plan in Eph 1:10.

A large sum of your Bible speaks about one of three separate groups of saints. Three different churches with three different messages with responsibilities to God. If these churches are rightly divided it will solve much doctrinal confusion in the church today.

1. The Church in the Wilderness is referenced by Stephen in Acts 7:38. It refers to the nation Israel following Moses to the Promised Land. These people operated under God’s instructions in the Old Covenant or Mosaic Law. This message and mission continued up to and through Jesus’ earthly ministry.
2. The Church in the Temple is referred to in Acts 2:44-47. This church which was “added to” at Pentecost was formed by Christ himself from the remnant of believing Israel. God’s instructions for this group were the fulfillment of prophecy in the kingdom and the New Testament. Faith that Jesus was the Messiah was required along with water baptism. Peter, James, and John are the leaders of this group that will sit on twelve thrones in the coming earthly kingdom.
3. The Church, the Body of Christ is referred to by Paul in Col 1:24. This church began with Jesus saving Paul by his grace “out of due time” (1 Cor 15:8). The message of this group is said to be a “mystery” and “kept secret before”. It includes Jews and Gentiles together but not under a law system. Their conversation is in heavenly places.

Today, God is building his church which is the body of Christ. We should be careful not to take instructions to the Church in the Temple or the Church in the Wilderness as our instructions or we may be building with the wrong material (1 Cor 3:13).

Not every instruction in the Bible was written to you or about you. When we try to determine if an instruction from the Lord is written to us we should ask “who is speaking?”; “which church are they speaking to?”; “is it the church God is building today?”

This helps to locate God’s instructions written to us. It also carefully separates doctrinal confusion that can occur when we borrow instructions from another church.

 

[BeyondET]

Well, Paul states the mystery given to him cannot be found in other books of our bible. Also, Paul's mysteries have very little to do with the book of Revelation. Revelation is about the kingdom on earth. The books from Romans-Philemon are about the kingdom in heaven where the body of Christ will reside.

Hence, Col 1.1-3 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

And 2 Cor 5.1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

God has two realms he will reposes. The heaven and the earth. Israel will rule and reign with Christ on earth, while we the body of Christ, will rule and reign with Christ in heaven. The people in the Old Testament and those in the future tribulation are always looking for a kingdom on earth. Not until you get to the apostle Paul do you ever see the bible talk about people going to heaven and staying there. Only until the fulness of times will God bring together both realms. There is not much talked about what all this means. Something to look forward to I suppose.

Eph 1.9-10
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

I'm just curious on where in Paul's writings that He says what was revealed to him "plural" and only him can't be found in scripture? I'm not much of a reader of the Paul's stuff so I'm not to up to date on all his teachings.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

to me rather this really kind of says what im saying

acts 9: 1-5 "And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. "


Saul is persecuting His disciples, and Jesus says " why do you persecute me?...and I am Jesus who you are persecuting"

rather than a huge circle would you agree that this is pretty straight forward that He is persecuting "the body of Christ" who would be the disciples or the " church" ? im not looking to argue at all, and if you dont see it the same im okay with it, i just feel that its pretty clear that to be the body of Christ, happens when the spirit is given. anyways that kind of is what i myself see on this subject, paul was already persecuting the body of Christ before He was converted.

Well if the body of Christ doesn't exist until after Paul, how can he be persecuting something that isn't even revealed yet. Much less even started.

Col 1.25-27
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Nothing new starts in Acts 2 at Pentecost (as it says in Heb 2.2-3). This was in prophecy. If something is prophecy, it cannot be a mystery! Something that is revealed cannot also be something that is hidden. Hid in God mind you. Also note 1 Cor 2.6-8 where it clearly states that had the mystery been known, Christ would NOT have been crucified.

So if your theory about the body of Christ starting in Acts 2 is true. Christ would not have ever been crucified.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

I'm just curious on where in Paul's writings that He says what was revealed to him "plural" and only him can't be found in scripture? I'm not much of a reader of the Paul's stuff so I'm not to up to date on all his teachings.

Look at verses Romans 16.25, Eph 3.3-7, Col 1.25-26, 1 Cor 2.6-8, Gal 1.11-12, Titus 1.2-3, Eph 3.9-10,

Eph 3.8 "Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchableriches of Christ" - these mystery truths are unsearchable. Hence, can't find them in other books.

You know Christ according to the flesh. You are supposed to know Christ according to the revelation of the mystery as it says in Romans 16.25.

Read what the apostle Paul says about knowing Jesus in the flesh.

“…yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.” – 2 Corinthians 5:16

​

Knowing Christ after the flesh is learned from the stories of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The Word was made flesh in John 1:14. His conception and birth of the flesh is described.
Knowing Jesus in his earthly ministry is to know him as the Son of David, the Son of Abraham, the Son of Mary, and the Son of God made flesh. He ate, he slept, he wept, he walked, he lived, and he died. He was circumcised; he kept and taught the law; he observed holy days.
In the flesh he was a Jew, and his ministry in the flesh was toward the lost circumcision in the flesh of Israel.

“…and of [Israel] as concerning the flesh Christ came…” – Romans 9:5
​

“Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers” – Romans 15:8
​

Jesus said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” – Matthew 15:24

​

It was in the four Gospels that Jesus was made in the likeness of sinful flesh (Rom 8:3), suffered in the flesh (1 Pet 4:1), and died in the flesh (1 Pet 3:18).

Remember, Paul wrote, “we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more [after the flesh]” (2 Cor 5:16).
When Paul made this statement Jesus’ entire earthly ministry in the flesh was over. The events of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were finished. If we no longer know Christ after the flesh, then how should we know him?

Knowing Christ From Now On

The risen Christ revealed to Paul a new way of knowing him that was not after his life and ministry in the flesh. Paul called it the mystery of Christ, and it concerns the gospel of Christ to all men (Rom 1:16), an heavenly Body of Christ (Eph 3:4-7), and the hope of eternal glory by God’s grace given freely to all (Col 1:25-28).

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” – 2 Corinthians 5:17

​

Instead of knowing Christ in the flesh as the Jewish Messiah prophesied since the world began, we know him as establishing a new creature seated in heavenly places kept secret since the world began (2 Cor 5:17; Rom 16:25).
We no longer know him as a Jew born as the son of David, but in Christ there is no Jew nor Greek (Gal 3:28). We no longer know him as King of the Jews, but the Head of this glorious Body called the church over all things (Eph 1:21-23).
This knowledge of Christ is not after the flesh, but rather as the risen Lord and Saviour offering grace to the ungodly and sinners worldwide through faith in the cross.

This message of the grace and mystery of Christ is the greatest message of Christianity and can not be found in the four Gospel books that reveal Christ after the flesh. It is the unique message of the apostle Paul given him by Christ after his ministry in the flesh was over (Gal 1:11-12; 1 Cor 15:8-10).

Exploring Jesus in his life after the flesh as a baby, toddler, teenager, or what Jesus would do in his earthly ministry toward the circumcision will only lead to an inferior knowledge of Christ today.
To know Christ as he should be known now is to know Him as he would want to be known: according to Paul’s gospel and the revelation of the mystery.

“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25
​

 

[CLee622]

Wow I've never even heard of this teaching before! Anyway before I do any research my questions would be are all previous believers that were waiting on a Savior to come..not saved? Not a part of the "ekklesia"? And how then did Moses know and trust a coming Messiah? Actually I can take you back to Eden where God, the first Evangelist, tells them because they sinned, a Savior is coming.

In my understanding - from Adam unti Joseph and Mary - they were all looking FORWARD to a Messiah. We simply now look BACK (in time) to Messiah. And I took it easily that we are all one body. Waiting to be complete.

No didnt watch or read anything but first question (sorry!) I am on a phone and I really hate reading or watching long things on it but it is my only means of being on here currently and I'm enjoying the interactions so far so thank you!

 

[CLee622]

God never changes. So how one of us happens to experience Him shouldn't create a new doctrine. God works many wonders. Think of the Israelites... pillars of fire and smoke were His presence. Fiery mountain. Moses...burning bush! I could go on. We all will see Him glorified one day. And doesn't it say Paul saw a bright light and heard a voice? He was then blinded. Seemed to me he couldn't see Him with his still sinful eyes. Not checking myself. Please feel free.

 

[Locutus]

I tell you, except youtube repent, youtube shall all likewise perish.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

Wow I've never even heard of this teaching before! Anyway before I do any research my questions would be are all previous believers that were waiting on a Savior to come..not saved? Not a part of the "ekklesia"? And how then did Moses know and trust a coming Messiah? Actually I can take you back to Eden where God, the first Evangelist, tells them because they sinned, a Savior is coming.

In my understanding - from Adam unti Joseph and Mary - they were all looking FORWARD to a Messiah. We simply now look BACK (in time) to Messiah. And I took it easily that we are all one body. Waiting to be complete.

No didnt watch or read anything but first question (sorry!) I am on a phone and I really hate reading or watching long things on it but it is my only means of being on here currently and I'm enjoying the interactions so far so thank you!

Aww, that's a shame you couldn't watch the video. It's a thorough study and would clear up some of the questions you asked. To answer your question simply: Yes, I believe all were saved who had faith and trusted God in their day - under their own instructions from God. If you look at Noah, had he not built the Ark he would not have been saved but taken away with the others by the flood. Let's be grateful he did believe God!

I used to believe, as you do, that people looking forward to a messiah was what saved them. I am not so sure of this anymore because I don't know of any scriptures that say this (it could be true and correct. I don't have all the answers). I think this tradition is something that has gone around to help Christian's get past the issue's that arise when certain things are hard to explain about people saved in the Old Testament.

What I do believe now, though, is that God has dealt with mankind in different ways. Paul certainly defines this for us as Times past, but now, and ages to come. In reference to how to rightly divide the scriptures.

In 'times past' God dealt with men differently than he does with us today in the 'but now' period. And he will deal with mankind future, *i.e. after us - rapture or death) differently than he does today with us. And he calls that the 'ages to come.' The books in our bible are laid out in this order as well. Not a coincidence either I personally believe. The books from Gen-Act's are considered 'time's past' by Paul. The books Romans-Philemon are called 'but now.' And Hebrews to Revelation are the books written to a future people we call the tribulation saints. They are going to be the one's who go through the great tribulation and go into the kingdom on earth. This is when God resumes is program and prophecy with Israel and ends the dispensation of Grace. Their message and salvation will certainly be different than ours today.

Also note, gentiles were saved in the Old Testament too under God's instructions for them. They had to go through the nation of Israel to be saved. Even in prophecy, gentiles out in the kingdom era will be saved through Israel. Today, in the dispensation of grace (the mystery), Gentiles are saved without Israel. Something never heard of before in the Old Testament scriptures.

I'll leave a link to Grace Ambassador's about Old Testament gentile salvation. You can also search their website for other questions you might have. They cover virtually everything with essays, notes, video, and audio. So since you can't watch things on your phone, you may find some audio that interests you.

Link --> Man Always Saved by God’s Grace

In fact, I think even the video's have mp3 (audio versions only) below the video's.

Link --> Paul

Link on right Mid Acts right division --> Mid-Acts Right Division

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

God never changes. So how one of us happens to experience Him shouldn't create a new doctrine. God works many wonders. Think of the Israelites... pillars of fire and smoke were His presence. Fiery mountain. Moses...burning bush! I could go on. We all will see Him glorified one day. And doesn't it say Paul saw a bright light and heard a voice? He was then blinded. Seemed to me he couldn't see Him with his still sinful eyes. Not checking myself. Please feel free.

I wouldn't confuse God never changing with God changing the way he deals with mankind...

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” – Hebrews 13:8

​

It is true that we should never forget that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh and is never changing.
Scripture says:

“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.” – Psalm 90:2
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning “ – James 1:17

​

God’s unchanging principles

From before the creation, God has always been. He will never change. The Scripture tells us of God’s unchanging character.

We know that for all time, the ‘goodness of God endureth continually’ (Psalm 52:1).
God will always and forever hate sin, but love righteousness (Psalm 11:7, 45:7).
God always keeps his promises, and cannot lie (Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:2).

It was regarding his promise given to Israel to make them a mighty nation that Malachi prophesies:

“For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” – Malachi 3:6

​

These principles which constitute the ‘right and wrong’ will never be changed. God will never waver from these attributes of his character.
However, we should be careful not to confuse the unchanging character and nature of God from his dealings with humanity which has changed.

Changing dispensations

Noah was told of a flood and consequently built an ark by faith.
Abraham was told of an inheritance and went into an unknown land by faith.
The Israel army was told of a supernatural defeat of Jericho and marched around the walls for seven days by faith.
Moses delivered a law for righteousness, and the obedient of Israel offered sacrifices by faith.
Jesus told of a coming kingdom, and the people repented and were baptized by faith.
Paul spoke of the righteousness by faith through Jesus death and resurrection, and we believe it by faith.
It is evident that the faith content of God’s people has changed from faith to faith (Romans 1:17).

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

We do not follow our Lord’s command to offer sacrifices for our sicknesses, because we now know that Christ was the ultimate sacrifice (Matthew 8:4, 2 Cor 12:9).

We do not go only to the ‘lost sheep of the House of Israel’ as Jesus commanded, because we now know through Paul that there is no Jew or Gentile and we should go to all men without distinction (Matthew 10:5-6, Col 3:11, 1 Tim 2:4).
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

So while Jesus gave a specific ministry to the disciples to go to the circumcision, he also gave Paul a specific ministry to go to the uncircumcision (Gal 1:11-12).

“But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me (Paul) toward the Gentiles: ) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” – Galatians 2:7-9


​

It is the same Lord that gave different instructions.


Jesus the same yesterday, and today, and forever

Hebrews 13:8 speaks to the consistency of the character of Jesus, the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Speaking directly to the Hebrews concerning their faithfulness to the doctrine, it is testified that Jesus is faithful to do as he promised. He is faithful to uphold his word.

“…lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” – Matthew 28:20

​

It is the same Jesus that spoke the world into existence that came to ‘confirm the promises made unto the fathers’ (Romans 15:8).
These promises will be fulfilled and so Peter says,

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” – 2 Peter 3:9

​

The will of God

Just as it is incorrect to think that God’s dealings with man do not change; it would be wrong to think that God is changing his dealing arbitrarily. This dispensation is not a contingency plan, substitute plan, or simply the whim of God to do away with his promises.
Rather, the progressively revealed dispensations of God all work together towards a single and eternal will:

“That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: “ – Ephesians 1:10

​

We should not be surprised to learn that God has spoken to different people at sundry times concerning these two distinctly different parts of his eternal plan.

Jesus’ ministry has changed in this dispensation from his ministry to ‘only the lost sheep of the house of Israel’ during his earthly ministry. However, this does not change the unchanging nature of our Lord.

“… there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. ” – 1 Corinthians 12:5
​

 

[CLee622]

"I think this tradition is something that has gone around to help Christian's get past the issue's that arise when certain things are hard to explain about people saved in the Old Testament."

Without going further thus far - it is not "tradition" it is scripture. God informing Adam and Eve of a Savior. What saved them? We do not have their testimonies...but we know He gave them the Gospel!!

I shall keep reading.

 

[CLee622]

"Gentiles are saved without Israel. Something never heard of before in the Old Testament scriptures."

I have to protest becayse God "created" Israel. Hebrews (eventually called Jews) did not exist until God CALLED Abram (Abraham) ... He created "a people for Himself" (partly to bring forth His Son ... partly to reveal to all humankind Who He is and what He does)

so before Abram there were only "Gentiles" if you will and he WAS one of them.

He was simply called - as are all those who turn and follow.

 

[wsblind]

Aww, that's a shame you couldn't watch the video. It's a thorough study and would clear up some of the questions you asked. To answer your question simply: Yes, I believe all were saved who had faith and trusted God in their day - under their own instructions from God. If you look at Noah, had he not built the Ark he would not have been saved but taken away with the others by the flood. Let's be grateful he did believe God!

I used to believe, as you do, that people looking forward to a messiah was what saved them. I am not so sure of this anymore because I don't know of any scriptures that say this (it could be true and correct. I don't have all the answers). I think this tradition is something that has gone around to help Christian's get past the issue's that arise when certain things are hard to explain about people saved in the Old Testament.

What I do believe now, though, is that God has dealt with mankind in different ways. Paul certainly defines this for us as Times past, but now, and ages to come. In reference to how to rightly divide the scriptures.

In 'times past' God dealt with men differently than he does with us today in the 'but now' period. And he will deal with mankind future, *i.e. after us - rapture or death) differently than he does today with us. And he calls that the 'ages to come.' The books in our bible are laid out in this order as well. Not a coincidence either I personally believe. The books from Gen-Act's are considered 'time's past' by Paul. The books Romans-Philemon are called 'but now.' And Hebrews to Revelation are the books written to a future people we call the tribulation saints. They are going to be the one's who go through the great tribulation and go into the kingdom on earth. This is when God resumes is program and prophecy with Israel and ends the dispensation of Grace. Their message and salvation will certainly be different than ours today.

Also note, gentiles were saved in the Old Testament too under God's instructions for them. They had to go through the nation of Israel to be saved. Even in prophecy, gentiles out in the kingdom era will be saved through Israel. Today, in the dispensation of grace (the mystery), Gentiles are saved without Israel. Something never heard of before in the Old Testament scriptures.

I'll leave a link to Grace Ambassador's about Old Testament gentile salvation. You can also search their website for other questions you might have. They cover virtually everything with essays, notes, video, and audio. So since you can't watch things on your phone, you may find some audio that interests you.

Link --> Man Always Saved by God’s Grace

In fact, I think even the video's have mp3 (audio versions only) below the video's.

Link --> Paul

Link on right Mid Acts right division --> Mid-Acts Right Division

Been reading through a lot of what you have posted in this and other threads.

Get salvation figured out. It has and ALWAYS will be the same. Faith alone in Christ alone. God sees and knows the heart, men have to have evidence. And God shows us evidence. Go through the OT and count the men and women that God used as examples. They were mature, spiritually advanced Christians. For every 1 "hero of the faith" there were 10 million born again believers that chose not to advance and be recognized in His Word.

Drop the KJV only and you may gain interested truth seekers. Your close on dispensations and the mystery doctrine of the Church.......and I have never studied from the KJV.

 

[CLee622]

In the Old Test. We see God declare Himself God of the Gentiles multiple times...a light to the Gentiles..that ALL will be taught by God etc.

I cannot grasp how people from the past who He called aren't part of this body. What of heaven ? Will there be division? No.

 

[CLee622]

wsblind :: "Drop the KJV only and you may gain interested truth seekers. Your close on dispensations and the mystery doctrine of the Church.......and I have never studied from the KJV." ...

the KJV is the oldest English translation that most of us can understand. It is VERY good. And renders a lot of things corrrctly (such as the word "unicorn" for example. Yes real. No not a horse. I've got a whole story/pretty solid theory on them...but I digress) What I've found though, is it is SO helpful to just read many at the same time! There are plenty of websites that help you do this. Studying the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek is always a plus!

 

[Ugly]

wsblind :: "Drop the KJV only and you may gain interested truth seekers. Your close on dispensations and the mystery doctrine of the Church.......and I have never studied from the KJV." ...

the KJV is the oldest English translation that most of us can understand. It is VERY good. And renders a lot of things corrrctly (such as the word "unicorn" for example. Yes real. No not a horse. I've got a whole story/pretty solid theory on them...but I digress) What I've found though, is it is SO helpful to just read many at the same time! There are plenty of websites that help you do this. Studying the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek is always a plus!

Lots of KJV onlyiests on this site. And lots of debate on it. So arguing against it casually will have zero effect.

 

[CLee622]

Also - I protest because without Israel - we wouldn't have an Old Testament ("Hebrew Bible") nor would the New Testament make sense. Forgive typos!!!

"Gentiles are saved without Israel. Something never heard of before in the Old Testament scriptures."

I have to protest becayse God "created" Israel. Hebrews (eventually called Jews) did not exist until God CALLED Abram (Abraham) ... He created "a people for Himself" (partly to bring forth His Son ... partly to reveal to all humankind Who He is and what He does)

so before Abram there were only "Gentiles" if you will and he WAS one of them.

He was simply called - as are all those who turn and follow.

 

[wsblind]

In the Old Test. We see God declare Himself God of the Gentiles multiple times...a light to the Gentiles..that ALL will be taught by God etc.

I cannot grasp how people from the past who He called aren't part of this body. What of heaven ? Will there be division? No.

Israel was called to bring the Gospel to the gentiles. Israel was God's people to advance the Gospel to the gentiles.

They quit doing it. The gentiles were an unworthy race of dogs in their minds.

Thats why God switched( for a time) to us gentiles to advance His Gospel.

 

[iamsoandso]

Well, Paul states the mystery given to him cannot be found in other books of our bible. Also, Paul's mysteries have very little to do with the book of Revelation. Revelation is about the kingdom on earth. The books from Romans-Philemon are about the kingdom in heaven where the body of Christ will reside.

Hence, Col 1.1-3 "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

And 2 Cor 5.1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

God has two realms he will reposes. The heaven and the earth. Israel will rule and reign with Christ on earth, while we the body of Christ, will rule and reign with Christ in heaven. The people in the Old Testament and those in the future tribulation are always looking for a kingdom on earth. Not until you get to the apostle Paul do you ever see the bible talk about people going to heaven and staying there. Only until the fulness of times will God bring together both realms. There is not much talked about what all this means. Something to look forward to I suppose.

Eph 1.9-10
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

the two witnesses in Revelation when the beast kills them and 3.5 days later when they ascend into heaven are they in the body of Christ or out?