To Zone...The SEVEN MOUNTAINS

zone · Mar 22, 2011

a-a-a-n-n-n-d-d-d....the set-up for Rome to "fall" as per the plan, and as per the deception....first we were led to believe it was NEW YORK! 9-11! oh! the great babylon is fallen (IN ONE HOUR NO LESS). good way to start getting rid of the arabs.

but now its time to mess with the christians...rome! it must be ROME.

neat as a pin.

too bad the harlot city isn't Rome.

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 22, 2011

zone said:

So lets see. A bunch of people said New york. And it makes me wrong? Nice argument.

I just say what scripture tells us, There are no "7 mountains" in which any city stands which has the power, and the things the harlot is said to have.

And why use a passage which shows the 2 witnesses are lying to prove your point? Rev 11 is talking baout two witness not the Harlot.

My you go deep to prove to yourself you are right don't you??

zone · Mar 22, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

if you need 7 literal mountains for the endtimes scenario (Rev 17), why don't you find out if Jerusalem sits on 7 mountains? which of those mountains received the wound in 70AD?

what if the 7 heads in Rev 12 & 13 are Daniel's 4th beast?

what if those 7 heads (HERODS) ruled JERUSALEM the same time as the 10 kings (CAESARS) ruled from Rome?

and The Stone the builders rejected smashed them at The First Advent, the consummation coming in 70AD?

Daniel 2
40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41 And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

then that would mean this is true:

Luke 11:20
But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 22, 2011

zone said:

if you need 7 literal mountains for the endtimes scenario (Rev 17), why don't you find out if Jerusalem sits on 7 mountains? which of those mountains received the wound in 70AD?

what if the 7 heads in Rev 12 & 13 are Daniel's 4th beast?

what if those 7 heads (HERODS) ruled JERUSALEM the same time as the 10 kings (CAESARS) ruled from Rome?

and The Stone the builders rejected smashed them at The First Advent, the consummation coming in 70AD?

Daniel 2
40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41 And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

then that would mean this is true:

Luke 11:20
But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

The Harlot is a CITY which we are told SITS ON 7 MOUNTAINS.

If we take the "CITY" Literally, we should take the 7 MOUNTAINS literally.

That is unless City is not to be taken literally either.

Ask what mountain Jeruslaem sits on? Why? Unless it sits on 7 mountains, it is not the Harlot!!

Not to mention. It does not fit the rest of the characteristics given in Rev.

zone · Mar 22, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

tsk......mkay....here's the answer re: the literal mountains.

1) Moriah
2) Bethsaida
3) Scopus
4) Mount of Olives
5) Mount Opel
6) Zion
7) Calvary

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 17:9
And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Revelation 19:2
For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

question:

how long do you want to keep up the charade?

Devolution · Mar 22, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

We must discern the physical from the spiritual. The kings can only burn her physical flesh, that is destroy the current system. For through these kings comes the physical mark which permits trade in the new system. She can not be killed by humans. I thought i made this clear in the post? Also they are not killing the Harlot, they just make her naked (expose the flaws & corruption) eat her flesh (strip away the old system) & burn her with fire (end the old system for good)

If John were speaking of Rome, he would have described her as one mountain. What of the seven heads of the beast? Only one of the heads was wounded remember? Was only part of Rome wounded then? Only part of Rome fell? Or did all of Rome fall? History proves that all of Rome fell. So you see, there is more to it. Rome being the SEVEN mountains just doesn't fit.

We must remember that when God speaks of that city, he speaks of Babylon the great. The whole world which Satan rules. Not merely the known world as it was back then. But the whole world. Satan has a city (Bab. the great) & God has a city (Zion). Satans physically manifested side of that city ushers in a new trading system ruled by 10 kings. These 10 kings get given a mouth. This mouth has eyes, and is known in Daniel as the little horn. He is the false prophet. He will rule over the physical Great city Bab the great where the Whore sits. God tells us that this man will rule the WHOLE earth with this new system. This has never happened before. Rome of old never conquered the WHOLE world...ONLY the known world to them. And she never ruled all known nations either. Nations were still independent. But this other coming beast...this one WILL rule ALL.

You forget...Revelations was meant for all...especially for those in Johns future...for it is US who will be affected by these prophecies. God knew what the world would be like for His people in these days...i have no trouble understanding His speech.

Devolution · Mar 22, 2011

Here's a quick look at rev 17 again...

9>.....the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits.

seven heads are seven mountains. The woman is only sitting on them...sitting is to rest upon...atop of.

Rev 13:1>.....and i saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns....

Seven heads. It is a beast. One beast with seven heads.

Rev 13:3> And i saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed, and all the world wondered after the beast.

Only one head of this beast was wounded to death..yet it gets healed. Not seven heads wounded/healed...but one head wounded/healed...so what are these other 6 heads which are not wounded?

Enjoy...

eternally-gratefull · Mar 22, 2011

zone said:

Ok, even if this is so, The harlot has many other characteristics. Can you show me how jerusalem has these characteristics. Having one characteristic does not make one the Harlot.

Again, This passage has to do with 2 witnesses who are killed, and tells us where they are killed. It has nothign to do with the harlot. Why do you keep insisting on using it?

Hm. So she sits on seven mountains.

It also says she is extremely wealthy, influences all nations, Is a pegan system which worships pegan Gods (which is why she is called the Harlot), Merchants of the world get rich by selling her merchandise or merchandise that represent her. The whole world loves her so much, they will morn her destruction, She sas killed members of the true Church, etc etc etc.

can any of these characteristics of the harlot be found in Jerusalem?? Better yet, Unless they ALL fit, it is Not Jerusalem!

Until you prove Jerusalem, the city, has ALL the characteristics of the Harlot!! Not just one or a few!

Devolution · Mar 22, 2011

To any who see this....Consider: The beast has seven heads. ONE head gets wounded to death. Do physical mountains get wounded to death by the sword & then healed? If we, through war, destroyed a mountain...will we bring in trucks & workmen & rebuild that mountain? Think about this...rebuilding a mountain !!!! And what would it take to destroy a physical mountain besides? Can even nukes flatten whole mountains? When mountains are the best protection from nukes?

Or will the world wonder after a lump of rock? Do all the inhabitants of the world begin worshipping actual mountains again? Yet revelation speaks of one head of the 7 with ten horns. And it is these 10 horns which rev 17:12 describes as kings, and these are on the head of the wounded head which gets healed....

Besides this, does Mt Moriah have a king? Bethsaida, Scopus, Olives, Opel, Zion, Calvary? All these have kings? I think not.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 22, 2011

Devolution said:

To any who see this....Consider: The beast has seven heads. ONE head gets wounded to death. Do physical mountains get wounded to death by the sword & then healed? If we, through war, destroyed a mountain...will we bring in trucks & workmen & rebuild that mountain? Think about this...rebuilding a mountain !!!! And what would it take to destroy a physical mountain besides? Can even nukes flatten whole mountains? When mountains are the best protection from nukes?

Or will the world wonder after a lump of rock? Do all the inhabitants of the world begin worshipping actual mountains again? Yet revelation speaks of one head of the 7 with ten horns. And it is these 10 horns which rev 17:12 describes as kings, and these are on the head of the wounded head which gets healed....

Besides this, does Mt Moriah have a king? Bethsaida, Scopus, Olives, Opel, Zion, Calvary? All these have kings? I think not.

Are you trying to say the harlot is rome? the empire which the beast rules??

zone · Mar 22, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

[*]The Woman is called "Sodom" and "Egypt" and "Babylon" (Revelation 11:8; 17:5, 14:8, 18:10, 21).
[*]The Woman is located where Jesus was crucified (Revelation 11:8).
[*]The Woman's dwelling place becomes a River of Blood (Revelation 14:20).
[*]The Woman is Split into 3 Divisions (Revelation 16:19).
[*]The Woman "sits on many waters" (Revelation 17:1) and these "waters" are diverse peoples (Revelation 17:15).
[*]The Woman has fornicated with the Heathen World against God (Revelation 17:2, 18:3, 18:9).
[*]The Woman is born along on a Beast (Revelation 17:3).
[*]The Woman is the Mother of all Whores and Abominable Atrocities (Revelation 17:5).
[*]The Woman is Drunk on the Blood of O.T. & N.T. Saints (Revelation 17:6, 18:24, 18:20).
[*]The Woman is responsible for the death of the Prophets and Apostles (Revelation 17:6, 18:20, 18:24).
[*]The Woman sits on 7 Mountains (Revelation 17:9).
[*]The Woman is a dwelling place of devils (Revelation 18:2).
[*]The Woman is a Prison for Evil Spirits (Revelation 18:2).
[*]The Woman is a Cage, full of Dirty Birds (Revelation 18:2).
[*]The Woman has a Full Cup of Iniquities (Revelation 18:5).
[*]The Woman is Doubly Judged (Revelation 18:6).
[*]The Woman considers herself a Queen (Revelation 18:7).
[*]The Woman still considers herself Married (Revelation 18:7).
[*]The Woman was Rich and Mourned when Judged (Revelation 18:10, 16-19).
[*]The Woman merchandised the Souls of Men (Revelation 18:13).
[*]The Woman is pronounced Desolate (Revelation 18:19).
[*]The Woman's sound of Joy is taken away (Revelation 18:22).
[*]The Woman's position of Creativity is taken away (Revelation 18:22).
[*]The Woman's authority as someone equipped to Judge is removed (Revelation 18:22).
[*]The Woman's Light-Bearing ability is snuffed out (Revelation 18:23).
[*]The Woman's Bridegroom has Divorced Her (Revelation 18:23).
[*]The Woman's Engagement/Marriage has been annulled/abrogated (Rev 18:23).
[*]The Woman is called "This/That Great City" (Revelation 11:8, 14:8, 16:19, 17:18, 18:10, 16, 18, 19, 21, 21:10).

zone · Mar 22, 2011

The Woman = Jerusalem

The most compelling evidence that the woman is Jerusalem is that scripture says it's where Jesus was crucified! (Revelation 11:8). Compare Jerusalem before her Judgment: (Revelation 11:8) and after Her Judgment (Revelation 21:10).

There are two Jerusalem's. One was the literal, fleshly type of the true, spiritual Jerusalem. One was the Zion of Israel - the abode or rallying point of God's chosen nation, the other was the true Zion - the Abode of God and by extension the spiritual Home/Abode of His people where they are written and their spirits assemble before Him in awe and worship.

Jerusalem was once the Beautiful City of God, but now she has become a den of devils and full of idolatries and filthy abominations. God is going to judge Her and give her name to the spiritually faithful - those from both the nation of Israel and the heathen nations. Thus will His "Jerusalem" and His "Zion" be pure.

God also uses the term "this great city" to refer to Jerusalem in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 22:6-9).

The Woman has killed the Saints - the Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus (Revelation 11:8; 17:6; 18: 20,24).

Jerusalem has killed the Saints - the Prophets, Apostles, and Jesus (Matthew 23:29-36; Luke 6:22-23, 26; 11:47-52; 13:28,33-34; Acts 2:23,36; 3:15; 4:10; 5:30; 7:51-52; Romans 11:2-5; 1 Corinthians 2:7-8; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15, James 5:10).

Mt. Zion & Jerusalem are the Capital City for the Saints (Hebrews 12:18,22-24).

Heaven is The Country for Saints: (Philippians 3:20, Hebrews 11:13-16, Galatians 4:24-26, Psalm 48:2; 74:2; 76:2; 87:5, Matthew 5:34-35).

The 7 Mountains (Revelation 17:9) refer to Jerusalem, not Rome. The seven mountains upon which Jerusalem was built are Mount Zion, Mount Ophel, Mount Moriah, Mount Bezetha, Mount Acra, Mount Gareb, and Mount Goath.

Some might ask, "If the 'whore' is Jerusalem, how could the 'beast' be Nero Caesar, from Rome? Would not the "beast" be someone who rules over Jerusalem? The answer is that Caesar DID rule over Jerusalem. The highest religious authorities in Jerusalem, and all the Jews living in Jerusalem, even admitted that Caesar is their king (John 19:15).

zone · Mar 22, 2011

Revelation 11:8

Let's look at the term "Sodom." John wrote that this is a "figurative" name. That means it does not tell us the actual name of the city, but it's spiritual condition. Once more, in letting the Bible interpret itself, we find this is a reference to Jerusalem. In Isaiah, chapter 1, after declaring that he had a "vision…concerning Judah and Jerusalem" (verse 1), Isaiah wrote, "Hear the words of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom…" In Jeremiah 23:14, because of the adulterous prophets, God said that Jerusalem and her inhabitants had "become to Me like Sodom."

But what about "Egypt?" No where in the Bible is Jerusalem called Egypt. However, that the first century generation was also in an exodus. While Old Testament Israel's exodus was from the bondage of Egypt, the New Testament Israel's exodus was from the bondage of the Old Covenant Law. The most recognizable passage that depicts this "new exodus" is found in I Corinthians 10:1-11. Paul wrote, "And all these things happened to those [as] examples, and was written for our warning; to whom the ends of the ages have arrived." His contextual foundation for this statement was the Old Testament exodus from Egyptian bondage. He wrote that they had passed through the sea (verse 1).

They ate manna and drank from the rock (verse's 3-4). He then relays how they wandered in the wilderness (verse 5), became idolaters (verse 7), tried the Lord and were destroyed by serpents (verse 9). This shows us that, just like the "type and shadow" of the Old Testament and their deliverance from bondage, the New Testament saints were undergoing the same exodus. The only difference was that Paul's generation was the reality to which the Old Testament example pointed.

Furthermore, in Luke 13:33-34, Jesus said, "[T]oday and tomorrow, and on the following [day], I must travel on, because it is not possible [for] a prophet to perish outside Jerusalem. Jerusalem! Jerusalem! The [one] killing the prophets, and stoning those having been sent to her." Then, in Matthew 23:29-37, Jesus blasted the Jews of His day for killing the prophets and the apostles. He declared that they are the children of their fathers who also killed the prophets. Then in verse 32, Jesus said that they would complete the sin that their fathers started. But the most crucial evidence is found in verse 35, where Jesus said, "upon you (i.e., the Jews of His day) may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on the earth." Then He said, "I tell you the truth, all of these things will happen to you people who are living now. Jerusalem, Jerusalem! You kill the prophets and stone to death those who are sent to you" (verse's 36-37). In both passages, Jesus told the Jews of His day that they were guilty of "all the righteous blood shed upon the earth" (see also Acts 7:51-52).

zone · Mar 22, 2011

Notice of Divorce

In Jeremiah 31:32, God said he was “an husband” to Israel. In Jeremiah 3:8-14 and Isaiah 50:1, God states that he was married to Israel, and gave Israel a bill of divorcement, because Israel committed adultery. This occured around 721 B.C.

Jesus said, "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (Deuteronomy 24:1) But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Matthew 5:31-32).

God said that the only Just reason for divorcing your wife was "on the ground of unfaithfulness." Also, that a "written notice of divorce" must be given. Would God not abide by His own laws? Prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, God served Israel her divorce papers. And this allowed for a new bride.

Revelation 21:2, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

When was the Old Jerusalem destroyed? 70AD. So when should the "new Jerusalem" have been established? 70AD. Aren't the followers of Christ now the "bride" of Christ? Yes. In 721 B.C., God divorced Himself from the adulterous, harlot wife and gave to His Son a new Bride in 70 A.D.! That's Us!

etc etc.........

the above is from a PRETERIST SITE...I DO NOT HOLD TO FULL PRETERISM.

i see in Scripture, just as the eternal Kingdom is expanding but as yet unseen for us in the flesh, the eschaton is an expansion and final fulfillment/consummation of many of the same TYPES (per Mttw 24/Mark 13/ 2 Thess/Rev). once we see what has been fulfilled, its far easier to see what hasn't.

zone · Mar 22, 2011

Devolution said:

ok devo.
put the prophecy book down before you hurt yourself.

no matter how you spin this (literally or spiritually) it comes out JERUSALEM, ok? you think God places false doctrine in His Word: i think He doesn't.

did you read Zechariah 5?

Moriah received a deadly wound in 70AD that lasted until this century. >> THE SANHEDRIN ARE BACK AFTER 1600 YEARS.

The Temple Mount & System (which will be an abomination to God now that Jesus Christ THE LAMB has been sacrificed...right devo?) was LEFT DESOLATE in 70AD.

satan's kingdom received a deadly wound to the head (per Genesis) at The First Advent. satan will be released for A SHORT SPACE, revived (for a little season).
a-a-a-a-n-y-ways.

and, how will he deceive people (including nominal people who claim the name of Jesus)? well, the BIG LIE: MESSIAH DIDN'T COME 2,000 YEARS AGO.

did you ever correct Hebrews 4:8 devo?

did God fulfill His promises IN JOSHUA 21?

BTW: Rome and Islam are in on this at the highest levels, but neither of them is the Mother: they are daughters.

zone · Mar 22, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

even though some claim to hold a literal interpretation, they're quick to spiritualize (i.e.: the great CITY into being THE WORLD).

until we believe what God says about the city being a specific city, there will not be eyes to see it. it's not that hard anyways.

but people who spend all their time in the OT and do not see that the Bible is about JESUS end up seeing the same things...hmmm...

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

zone · Mar 22, 2011

Devolution said:

LOL!!!!

which is it devo?

if symbolic language God uses is unacceptable to you, you are left with something like a literal seven headed red dragon receiving a deadly wound to one of those heads....then rising from the dead and tricking people into taking a mark. would you be DECEIVED INTO WORSHIPPING AN IMAGE OF A RED DRAGON?

COME ON. a couple of posts back you had the mountains being THE WORLD.

zone · Mar 22, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

besides. why am i proving anything to you?

a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still, as they say.

but do you see it yet?

eternally-gratefull · Mar 22, 2011

zone said:

Wow, Talk about playing Games. I asked you to prove all characteristics spoke of the harlot could be proven to be found in Jerusalem.

Did you do this? NO!

ALot of what you posted do not even refere to the harlot (there are a few "women" spoken of in Rev. The harlot is only mention inthe end of rev 16 Rev 17 - 18 As was a suprise to John when he saw her. If the earlier women were the harlot. John would not have been suprised. If it was Jerusalem. John would have recognized her.

Now. Either prove Jerusalem has ALL the characteristics of rev 17 - 18, Or prove you have no clue!!

By the way, The church is the only thing called the "bride of Christ" Saying God divorced her, means that the people of the harlot was the church at one time, But tempted by her, and played the harlot with her.

Can we say this of Jersualem?? I did not think so!

eternally-gratefull · Mar 22, 2011

zone said:

Yeah, I see quite clearly.

You can not prove Jerusalem has all the characteristics. So instead you play games. The proof comes out. As they say, Silence speaks louder than words.

I have already proven Jerusalem does not have all the characteristics. (in another thread)

All we have from you is silence, and derogatory ad hominem attacks.

Who is the one who is blind??

I think we know..

I am still waiting for you to prove it. But you don't have to. You can keep playing your silly little games.

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