TONGUES false teaching.
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It is false teaching! It is according all the pentecostal/ charismatic teachings combined with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
This is not what we find in 1. Cor 12.
Also 1.Cor.teaches that not all believers will get this gift 1. Cor.12,30
So the aktuell teaching about speaking in tongues is false teaching.
This is not what we find in 1. Cor 12.
Also 1.Cor.teaches that not all believers will get this gift 1. Cor.12,30
So the aktuell teaching about speaking in tongues is false teaching.
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Well you can believe whatever you want to but Tongues is not a False teaching ----I speak in tongues and I am not even close to being in a Pentecostal Religion ----as a matter of fact I follow no Religion ---I follow THE WAY -------which is the Way of Jesus ------
! Corinthians 12 says this ----there are 9 gifts that the Holy Spirit gives out and Tongues is one of them ---if you don't want to believe the Scripture then that is up to you -------
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers,to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a]
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
I say ----So if you believe tongues is false teaching then you believe this Scripture is false and you can't believe in the other gifts either -----
! Corinthians 12 says this ----there are 9 gifts that the Holy Spirit gives out and Tongues is one of them ---if you don't want to believe the Scripture then that is up to you -------
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers,to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a]
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
I say ----So if you believe tongues is false teaching then you believe this Scripture is false and you can't believe in the other gifts either -----
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This assumption is not correct. I know that I got a spiritual gift, as the scripture says.
What i said is that the teaching according the pentecostal and charismatic movements is not what I found in 1. Cor.
They teach that everybody who is baptised with the Holy Spirit get the gift of speaking in tongues. And also that everybody can get this gift. This is not what bible teaches!
I never met Christians which teach it according 1.Cor. 12. and 14.
What i said is that the teaching according the pentecostal and charismatic movements is not what I found in 1. Cor.
They teach that everybody who is baptised with the Holy Spirit get the gift of speaking in tongues. And also that everybody can get this gift. This is not what bible teaches!
I never met Christians which teach it according 1.Cor. 12. and 14.
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Also my expieriences with this movements are against what is written in 1. Cor 12,11.
There is written: as the Holy Spirit determines.
The reality is: as the human determines.
"If you realy want it you get it." "If i pray for you you can get it." " If i lay my hands on you you get it."
The Initiative is going out from the human.
But vers 11 says, the Initiative is going out from the Holy Spirit.
Thats makes the different!
There is written: as the Holy Spirit determines.
The reality is: as the human determines.
"If you realy want it you get it." "If i pray for you you can get it." " If i lay my hands on you you get it."
The Initiative is going out from the human.
But vers 11 says, the Initiative is going out from the Holy Spirit.
Thats makes the different!
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The text doesn't say that. The idea as the "Holy Spirit determines" is not there in 1cor 12:11. the context starts in verse 4
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
Verses 8 to 10 list those Charmata gifts.
After all that verse 11 says:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Everyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit has the ability to use all the gifts of the Holy Spirit as HE enables them to do.
we are told to seek them, desire them and be used in them in all three chapters of 1cor 12, and 14
1cor 12:31
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1cor 14:1, 13,39
the ability comes from the Holy Spirit yet we are to use them. we do not own them were entrusted with them. All gifts are provided to get the job done as we desire the "best gifts" which means desire the gifts that are helping you be a witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. tongues don't help a sick person but the gift of healing does, prophesying doesn't help for things needing discernment in a decision but wisdom does and discerning of spirits Be mature
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The Apostle Paul said, `I thank my God I speak with tongues MORE THAN YOU ALL. ` (1 Cor. 14: 18)
As to women not speaking in a church meeting, how ridiculous. That would mean not singing, testifying, praying out loud, reading God`s word out loud, etc, etc.
What the Greek says is that women are not to be meddlesome, disturb, and dominate authority. Obviously men are not to do the same however women were the ones doing it in the early days.
As to women not speaking in a church meeting, how ridiculous. That would mean not singing, testifying, praying out loud, reading God`s word out loud, etc, etc.
What the Greek says is that women are not to be meddlesome, disturb, and dominate authority. Obviously men are not to do the same however women were the ones doing it in the early days.
Paul said that he would that every one of his audience spoke in tongues.
The fact is, that if you have the Holy Ghost, you are going to exhibit one of the gifts of the Holy Ghost.
Tongues is a sign gift. In Mark 16, we find that speaking in tongues is a sign that will follow those who believe.
I find that because I have the gift of tongues, there is no doubt in my mind that I am saved; whereas if I did not have the gift of tongues, I would have to wonder. My tongues is proof in my mind that I have the Holy Ghost.
Someone else, who does not have the gift of tongues, might k ow that they have the Holy Ghost because they have a word of knowledge gift (for example).
But if you don't have any of the spiritual gifts that are mentioned in holy scripture, then it is time to doubt whether you have the Holy Ghost.
I do find that tongues, in the book of Acts, was the determining factor as to whether a group of people had the Holy Ghost (Acts 2, Acts 10, Acts 19).
Of course not all have the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:27-31). But I wonder if Paul might gave added in that list of questions, "Are all saved?"
Because the fact that not all speak in tongues might be accounted for in the fact that not all are born again.
The fact is, that if you have the Holy Ghost, you are going to exhibit one of the gifts of the Holy Ghost.
Tongues is a sign gift. In Mark 16, we find that speaking in tongues is a sign that will follow those who believe.
I find that because I have the gift of tongues, there is no doubt in my mind that I am saved; whereas if I did not have the gift of tongues, I would have to wonder. My tongues is proof in my mind that I have the Holy Ghost.
Someone else, who does not have the gift of tongues, might k ow that they have the Holy Ghost because they have a word of knowledge gift (for example).
But if you don't have any of the spiritual gifts that are mentioned in holy scripture, then it is time to doubt whether you have the Holy Ghost.
I do find that tongues, in the book of Acts, was the determining factor as to whether a group of people had the Holy Ghost (Acts 2, Acts 10, Acts 19).
Of course not all have the gift of tongues (1 Corinthians 12:27-31). But I wonder if Paul might gave added in that list of questions, "Are all saved?"
Because the fact that not all speak in tongues might be accounted for in the fact that not all are born again.
No, i cant agree with your outline. Paul draws the picture of a human body to describe the use of the gifts. According your understanding the eye can be the arm, the foot, the ear and the mouth and so on.
This I cant find taught in the scripture.
So it is not true that a believer get all the gifts which are mentioned.
He got the gift the Holy Spirit is giving him!
This I cant find taught in the scripture.
So it is not true that a believer get all the gifts which are mentioned.
He got the gift the Holy Spirit is giving him!
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don't matter if you agree you have no biblical reproof of the application. Your opinion is just that and you lack historical context too. You have difficulty finding anything in scripture you disagree with because you have bias.
You used 1cor 12:11 one verse to build a narrative that takes away from the context of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which starts in chapter 12 through 14. If you disagree with :
all of this biblical text I provided for you from 1cor chapter 12 and 14 is below:
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
Verses 8 to 10 list those Charmata gifts.
After all, that verse 11 says:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Everyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit has the ability to use all the gifts of the Holy Spirit as HE enables them to do.
we are told to seek them, desire them and be used in them in all three chapters of 1cor 12, and 14
1cor 12:31
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1cor 14:1, 13,39
If you disagree Please provide BIBLICALlY YOUR TEXT THAT refuses it. IF not, then you have nothing to say that is biblical only opinionated.
You used 1cor 12:11 one verse to build a narrative that takes away from the context of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which starts in chapter 12 through 14. If you disagree with :
all of this biblical text I provided for you from 1cor chapter 12 and 14 is below:
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
Verses 8 to 10 list those Charmata gifts.
After all, that verse 11 says:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Everyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit has the ability to use all the gifts of the Holy Spirit as HE enables them to do.
we are told to seek them, desire them and be used in them in all three chapters of 1cor 12, and 14
1cor 12:31
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1cor 14:1, 13,39
If you disagree Please provide BIBLICALlY YOUR TEXT THAT refuses it. IF not, then you have nothing to say that is biblical only opinionated.
Paul did not draw pictures of the human body he used what is known as the body of Christ where Christ is the head of THAT body.
Paul is clearly speaking of the supernatural gifts as the GREEK call them Charismata or PNEUMATIKA = spiritual gifts. the context of the use of Body illustration was to show all people in the body are needed and their gifts.
ignorant comment as unusual. 1cor chapter 12 through `14 do not teach all believers will not get this gift it teaches all gifts given to ALL are for the better meant of all. You have a bias and have a bad habit of attacking Pentacostels yet can't provide one Biblical verse to support your position. You get called on this every time.
"My experience is against what is written". What more is there to say? You know better than the word of God. Very sad when you see those making such comments. Only out of pride and arrogance. I could type a new thread and call it Gifts of the Holy Spirit and you would troll it with this kind of comment.
I WANT TO BELIEVE
I went to several Pentecostal and Charismatic churches for the first 25 years of my Christian walk (and 15 years prior), including: UPC, Independent Pentecostal, Apostolic Faith, Assemblies of God, Independent Charismatic, and Vineyard Movement. I spoke in tongues as it is taught by all those denominations. But after 45 years of studying the Bible, growing spiritually, and experiencing God, I found that I was deceived, and that what I was practicing was not of divine origin.
That knowledge did not come suddenly. But looking back on that experience, not once did I hear an authentic Biblical tongues in which a real and intelligible message was conveyed. Every time I heard tongues and interpretation, they did not have a semblance of comparison. I listened to this video:
which sounds like a language with a translation. Can someone with linguistic knowledge prove to me that it is? Otherwise, I have to assume that it's a Big Fish story.
I also listened to this video:
It is unconvincing. The point of it is that the speech center of the man's brain was inactive while he was speaking in tongues. DUH!! It means he wasn't speaking anything that had meaning. One could say he was just moving his mouth and making noise, so of course the speech center of his brain was inactive. So it doesn't prove anything at all.
The problem with "sounding like..." doesn't make it true or authentic. In order for me (and millions of other Christians like me) to know that modern tongues is authentic and of God is to show its miraculous nature. Just claiming it is miraculous doesn't make it so. Neither does debating scripture and opinions cut the mustard, as 47 pages of this thread shows.
What needs to happen is for someone with authentic Biblical tongues to make a video of them speaking in tongues, and let it be examined by linguists who have the ability to decode the message. Like the video above, tongues and interpretation would really be great, in which a linguist can figure out the message in tongues and verify that the interpretation is correct.
What I would like is for people to stop being lazy about this issue. If people started recording their tongues and transliterating what they said, and presented it to linguists for translation, think about how the churches could be edified. Pentecostals and Charismatics (P/Cs) everywhere would be greatly encouraged that this activity is proven miraculous. There would be no more excuses for cessationists to reject it, so it would bring unity to Christians everywhere. False tongues would be exposed and that would shut the mouths of pretenders and those deceived.
But according to this book: https://www.amazon.com/Tongues-men-...eywords=samarin&qid=1561690737&s=books&sr=1-1
modern tongues is a pseudo-language. It sounds like a language, but lacks structure and vocabulary to convey any meaning. It also states that non-Christians can do it, and in fact, anyone can do it, if they try hard enough.
And according to P/C doctrine, every Christian could/should/may speak in tongues. The doctrinal statements go something like this: Every Christian can receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, and speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. So if we examine these statements carefully, there is a clear assumption that anyone can speak in tongues (if baptized in the Spirit). This implies that anyone can do it, in fact, it is the expectation of P/Cs that every Christian ought to have this experience.
Yet, it is clearly not a Biblical expectation. The apostle Paul taught that the Holy Spirit is the one who decides who gets what gift, even if he said "desire earnestly the best gifts." Desiring a gift doesn't guarantee getting it, because it is given by God, not taken by people. Yet, it remains a P/C expectation, to the extent that it is a dogma in those denominations.
What Kavik said in his post here: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/tongues-false-teaching.196454/page-12#post-4451321
about the origin of the P/C movement is correct, and I have read the same historical account. IMO if P/Cs would honestly examine the roots of their movement, they would question the authenticity of what they have.
I claim that modern tongues is a human ability, and is not of divine origin. Let someone prove me wrong. Post a video of yourself speaking in tongues, and also post a transliteration of what you spoke in that video. Let's get some linguistic evaluation of it, to find out if there is a real message in it, or if it's merely random syllables that convey no meaning.
As long as people are kept in the dark, the controversy will never be resolved. Christians will continue to be divided on the issue. Counterfeit tongues will continue to cover up any authentic gift by virtue of sheer noise. So then, why continue to keep people in the dark about it? Is it too much work? Is there a fear of exposure, that it might show that "The Emperor Has No Clothes"? Is this why P/Cs want tongues to remain in the realm of the mysterious?
I get that P/Cs have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark about it. The Bible says "he who comes to the light does so, that it might be shown that what he has done has been done through God." So, if anyone wants to show that his gift of tongues is done through God, then the way to do that is the way I suggested above. But if people don't want to do that, it begs the question 'why'.
Because if modern tongues is not miraculous and not of God, then anyone who does it and claims it is a gift of the Spirit is taking the Lord's name in vain. It's just like someone claiming to be a prophet and saying "thus saith the Lord" when the Lord did not speak to them - that person takes the Lord's name in vain. So it is with someone who speaks random syllables with no inherent meaning, and says "it's a miraculous gift of the Spirit". Such a person is taking the name of the Lord in vain, because it is neither miraculous, nor a gift of the Spirit. Just because a person sincerely believes that what they are speaking is the authentic gift of tongues, doesn't make it so, and it doesn't get them off the hook about taking the Lord's name in vain.
Come on, people. Stop the laziness. Do the work. Prove the miraculous nature of speaking in tongues. Real healings have been documented. I don't mean Big Fish Stories. I mean pictures, X-rays, before/after comparisons, doctors examining and diagnosing, and documenting the healings. Why can't this be done with tongues? The only documented evidence I've seen is such as in the book I referenced "Tongues of Men and Angels," that shows the marked non-miraculous nature of it. Let's get busy on the other side, doing the same evaluation of the authentic gift!
Anecdotal evidence is not enough. It's not enough that people have testimonies about it. P/Cs have been historically notorious for Big Fish stories. Hearsay is not valid evidence. Just because you believe a story doesn't make it true. What is valid evidence in this case is videos, transliterations, and linguistic evaluations. I dare say that every video posted on youtube of people speaking in tongues is not authentic Biblical tongues. Prove me wrong. Do the work.
I went to several Pentecostal and Charismatic churches for the first 25 years of my Christian walk (and 15 years prior), including: UPC, Independent Pentecostal, Apostolic Faith, Assemblies of God, Independent Charismatic, and Vineyard Movement. I spoke in tongues as it is taught by all those denominations. But after 45 years of studying the Bible, growing spiritually, and experiencing God, I found that I was deceived, and that what I was practicing was not of divine origin.
That knowledge did not come suddenly. But looking back on that experience, not once did I hear an authentic Biblical tongues in which a real and intelligible message was conveyed. Every time I heard tongues and interpretation, they did not have a semblance of comparison. I listened to this video:
I also listened to this video:
The problem with "sounding like..." doesn't make it true or authentic. In order for me (and millions of other Christians like me) to know that modern tongues is authentic and of God is to show its miraculous nature. Just claiming it is miraculous doesn't make it so. Neither does debating scripture and opinions cut the mustard, as 47 pages of this thread shows.
What needs to happen is for someone with authentic Biblical tongues to make a video of them speaking in tongues, and let it be examined by linguists who have the ability to decode the message. Like the video above, tongues and interpretation would really be great, in which a linguist can figure out the message in tongues and verify that the interpretation is correct.
What I would like is for people to stop being lazy about this issue. If people started recording their tongues and transliterating what they said, and presented it to linguists for translation, think about how the churches could be edified. Pentecostals and Charismatics (P/Cs) everywhere would be greatly encouraged that this activity is proven miraculous. There would be no more excuses for cessationists to reject it, so it would bring unity to Christians everywhere. False tongues would be exposed and that would shut the mouths of pretenders and those deceived.
But according to this book: https://www.amazon.com/Tongues-men-...eywords=samarin&qid=1561690737&s=books&sr=1-1
modern tongues is a pseudo-language. It sounds like a language, but lacks structure and vocabulary to convey any meaning. It also states that non-Christians can do it, and in fact, anyone can do it, if they try hard enough.
And according to P/C doctrine, every Christian could/should/may speak in tongues. The doctrinal statements go something like this: Every Christian can receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues, and speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. So if we examine these statements carefully, there is a clear assumption that anyone can speak in tongues (if baptized in the Spirit). This implies that anyone can do it, in fact, it is the expectation of P/Cs that every Christian ought to have this experience.
Yet, it is clearly not a Biblical expectation. The apostle Paul taught that the Holy Spirit is the one who decides who gets what gift, even if he said "desire earnestly the best gifts." Desiring a gift doesn't guarantee getting it, because it is given by God, not taken by people. Yet, it remains a P/C expectation, to the extent that it is a dogma in those denominations.
What Kavik said in his post here: https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/tongues-false-teaching.196454/page-12#post-4451321
about the origin of the P/C movement is correct, and I have read the same historical account. IMO if P/Cs would honestly examine the roots of their movement, they would question the authenticity of what they have.
I claim that modern tongues is a human ability, and is not of divine origin. Let someone prove me wrong. Post a video of yourself speaking in tongues, and also post a transliteration of what you spoke in that video. Let's get some linguistic evaluation of it, to find out if there is a real message in it, or if it's merely random syllables that convey no meaning.
As long as people are kept in the dark, the controversy will never be resolved. Christians will continue to be divided on the issue. Counterfeit tongues will continue to cover up any authentic gift by virtue of sheer noise. So then, why continue to keep people in the dark about it? Is it too much work? Is there a fear of exposure, that it might show that "The Emperor Has No Clothes"? Is this why P/Cs want tongues to remain in the realm of the mysterious?
I get that P/Cs have a vested interest in keeping people in the dark about it. The Bible says "he who comes to the light does so, that it might be shown that what he has done has been done through God." So, if anyone wants to show that his gift of tongues is done through God, then the way to do that is the way I suggested above. But if people don't want to do that, it begs the question 'why'.
Because if modern tongues is not miraculous and not of God, then anyone who does it and claims it is a gift of the Spirit is taking the Lord's name in vain. It's just like someone claiming to be a prophet and saying "thus saith the Lord" when the Lord did not speak to them - that person takes the Lord's name in vain. So it is with someone who speaks random syllables with no inherent meaning, and says "it's a miraculous gift of the Spirit". Such a person is taking the name of the Lord in vain, because it is neither miraculous, nor a gift of the Spirit. Just because a person sincerely believes that what they are speaking is the authentic gift of tongues, doesn't make it so, and it doesn't get them off the hook about taking the Lord's name in vain.
Come on, people. Stop the laziness. Do the work. Prove the miraculous nature of speaking in tongues. Real healings have been documented. I don't mean Big Fish Stories. I mean pictures, X-rays, before/after comparisons, doctors examining and diagnosing, and documenting the healings. Why can't this be done with tongues? The only documented evidence I've seen is such as in the book I referenced "Tongues of Men and Angels," that shows the marked non-miraculous nature of it. Let's get busy on the other side, doing the same evaluation of the authentic gift!
Anecdotal evidence is not enough. It's not enough that people have testimonies about it. P/Cs have been historically notorious for Big Fish stories. Hearsay is not valid evidence. Just because you believe a story doesn't make it true. What is valid evidence in this case is videos, transliterations, and linguistic evaluations. I dare say that every video posted on youtube of people speaking in tongues is not authentic Biblical tongues. Prove me wrong. Do the work.
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