TONGUES is a precious gift from God

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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respect? I do not respect false doctrine

don't take it personally and try to make it seem I have it in for you

it's the false doctrine you are spouting that make people like Aidan question everything about tongues

I will speak to anyone I want any time I want. this is a public forum and not your personal soapbox for telling people unless they speak in tongues they are not saved. and other false interpretations such as if you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit you must be re-baptized in the name of Jesus only or your baptism is false

Oneness Pentecostal is false in its persuasions
It is puzzling how after all your years of serving God that you still don't know how to be kind to those with whom you disagree.

Scripture indicates that those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. And that all water baptism were administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. People have the choice whether to accept or reject those scriptures. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) I for one choose the Word over denominational beliefs that say otherwise.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Right, but they didn't understand what they read; and they gave more importance to their traditions.

They may have read God's word but they weren't full of it, nor did they take it seriously; it went in one ear and out the other.
They were raised around the Torah and the writings of the Prophets, they grew up in the Temple area and were taught ALL the Words of the Torah and the Prophets, as Priest and religious leaders they even wore phylacteries which carried little scrolls of the Torah on their foreheads..... Truly, they were FULL of God's Word.

I will agree with you that they did not understand God's Word.

They trusted in their knowledge of the Torah and their "religious works" not realizing God was sending a suffering Messiah first, then a Kingly Messiah.

They were a fig tree full of leaves but no fruit in their day of visitation.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,659
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" It is puzzling how after all your years of serving God that you still don't know how to be kind to those with whom you disagree."

Amen:unsure::)(y)
 
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SophieT

Guest
It is puzzling how after all your years of serving God that you still don't know how to be kind to those with whom you disagree.

Scripture indicates that those who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. And that all water baptism were administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. People have the choice whether to accept or reject those scriptures. (Acts 2:4-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) I for one choose the Word over denominational beliefs that say otherwise.
well as usual an ad hominum post

I know you would like to make it personal, but my post is addressed to your false doctrine

it is far more than a disagreement. you teach unbiblical concepts
 
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SophieT

Guest
" It is puzzling how after all your years of serving God that you still don't know how to be kind to those with whom you disagree."

Amen:unsure::)(y)
oh that's great skippy

first you tell me what a godly person I am, then because I disagree with your view on prophets, you have been following me around from thread to thread like a lost person posting x's and thumbs down

the hypocrisy is very revealing.

what is your point? do you feel good being such a small person?
 
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SophieT

Guest
You don't believe who Accepts Christ is Saved and who denies Christ is not Saved?

That is what Verse 16 is claiming?
that is not what he is saying

he is refuting Wansvic's claims that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

I refute those claims also

and while we are at it, I also refute his claims that if you are not baptized you go to hell

I wish people would do some research on wansvic .

do you know what Oneness Pentecostalism is? that is what is being promoted by him
 
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SophieT

Guest
As long as one continues to lean on their own understanding they will not receive His truth.
the problem there shittim, is that we can have a room full of people who say they are spirit filled and everyone will say they are right even though they don't agree

you do that all the time

you seem to believe that you are above instruction from the OT because nothing in that testament applies to anyone who is saved

but then, you question everyone's salvation when they do not agree with you

Holy Spirit will guide His own in all truth
well, then I guess we no longer need teachers or some of the other gifts. the problem when people believe they cannot ere because they believe certain things, is that they become deceived

there is nothing in the Bible to indicate Christians who are spirit filled and speak in tongues cannot be led astray
 
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SophieT

Guest
actually, there is so much abuse of tongues and faking it, they have made a major doctrine out of it

much of the NT was written to counter error

nothing has changed
 
Dec 29, 2021
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do you know what Oneness Pentecostalism is? that is what is being promoted by him
Only a few individual sects I am familiar with teaches as such, but the majority of Oneness Pentecostals I've known over the years never stressed this.

My Uncle is part of a Oneness Church and had never Spoke in Tongues. I've been to his and his families Churches many times, and oddly enough, they preach more inclination towards God being Triune in Nature than I hear at most professing trinity Churches. But I am nowhere claiming all Oneness Churches are like my Uncles.
 
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SophieT

Guest
Only a few individual sects I am familiar with teaches as such, but the majority of Oneness Pentecostals I've known over the years never stressed this.

My Uncle is part of a Oneness Church and had never Spoke in Tongues. I've been to his and his families Churches many times, and oddly enough, they preach more inclination towards God being Triune in Nature than I hear at most professing trinity Churches. But I am nowhere claiming all Oneness Churches are like my Uncles.
wansvic belongs to the sect that does say if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

you only recently joined, but I have been here since around 2016...this is not my first profile

he also believes that if you are not water baptized you are not saved and you are not saved, even if you speak in tongues, until you are water baptized

so, while he accuses me of being rude or whatever, the fact is I am only trying to make people aware of the duplicity. if I have to, I can find posts and threads where what I say can be found.

I just don't want people to become confused because of the doctrine he promotes
 

Aidan1

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
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The scripture you refer to is about the Spiritual gift of speaking in tongues that is later Interpreted by someone with that gift for the edification of the church body.
And it says what: that not all Christians got this gift.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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wansvic belongs to the sect that does say if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

you only recently joined, but I have been here since around 2016...this is not my first profile

he also believes that if you are not water baptized you are not saved and you are not saved, even if you speak in tongues, until you are water baptized

so, while he accuses me of being rude or whatever, the fact is I am only trying to make people aware of the duplicity. if I have to, I can find posts and threads where what I say can be found.

I just don't want people to become confused because of the doctrine he promotes
Thank You!
 

Aidan1

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
1,680
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You don't believe who Accepts Christ is Saved and who denies Christ is not Saved?

That is what Verse 16 is claiming?
No, of course I believe this.
But your Suggestions which following vers 16
are to proof that these statements are for today, too.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,433
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wansvic belongs to the sect that does say if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

you only recently joined, but I have been here since around 2016...this is not my first profile

he also believes that if you are not water baptized you are not saved and you are not saved, even if you speak in tongues, until you are water baptized

so, while he accuses me of being rude or whatever, the fact is I am only trying to make people aware of the duplicity. if I have to, I can find posts and threads where what I say can be found.

I just don't want people to become confused because of the doctrine he promotes

Oh, a oneness type huh :).

that's to bad :).
 
Dec 29, 2021
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No, of course I believe this.
But your Suggestions which following vers 16
are to proof that these statements are for today, too.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


Verse 17 Specifies: [In MY NAME]

So, In the Name of Yeshua, people today are able to:

1. Cast out Devils
2. Speak with New Tongues
3. Take up Serpents
4. Accidentally drink Poison and live
5. Lay hands on the sick and they are healed.

All of those are Active Today if you Believe and do it by the Name of Yeshua [Jesus]!
 
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ACts 2
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a noise came from heaven. It sounded like a strong wind blowing. This noise filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw something that looked like flames of fire. The flames were separated and stood over each person there. 4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak different languages. The Holy Spirit was giving them the power to do this.

5 There were some godly Jews in Jerusalem at this time. They were from every country in the world. 6 A large crowd came together because they heard the noise. They were surprised because, as the apostles were speaking, everyone heard in their own language.

7 They were all amazed at this. They did not understand how the apostles could do this. They said, “Look! These men we hear speaking are all from Galilee.[a] 8 But we hear them in our own languages. How is this possible? We are from all these different places: 9 Parthia, Media, Elam, Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the areas of Libya near the city of Cyrene, Rome, 11 Crete, and Arabia. Some of us were born Jews, and others have changed their religion to worship God like Jews. We are from these different countries, but we can hear these men in our own languages! We can all understand the great things they are saying about God.”



Acts 2 proves it is known languages. Paul's illustration about Music also has that meaning.

Paul's quote of Isaiah 28:11 in I cor 14:21 seals the text as being known human languages.

I cor 14
9 It is the same with you. If you don’t speak clearly in a language people know, they cannot understand what you are saying. You will be talking to the air! 10 It is true that there are many different languages in the world, and they all have meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand the meaning of what someone is saying, it will just be strange sounds to me, and I will sound just as strange to them. 12 That’s why you who want spiritual gifts so much should prefer those gifts that help the church grow stronger.

13 So those who have the gift of speaking in a different language should pray that they can also interpret what they say. 14 If I pray in a different language, my spirit is praying, but my mind does nothing. 15 So what should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16 You might be praising God with your spirit. But someone there without understanding cannot say “Amen” to your prayer of thanks, because they don’t know what you are saying. 17 You may be thanking God in a good way, but others are not helped.

18 I thank God that my gift of speaking in different kinds of languages is greater than any of yours. 19 But in the church meetings I would rather speak five words that I understand than thousands of words in a different language. I would rather speak with my understanding, so that I can teach others.

20 Brothers and sisters, don’t think like children. In evil things be like babies, but in your thinking you should be like full-grown adults. 21 As the Scriptures[a] say,

Using those who speak a different language
and using the lips of foreigners,

I will speak to these people.
But even then, they will not obey me.”

This is what the Lord says.

22 And from this we see that the use of different languages shows how God deals with those who don’t believe, not with those who believe. And prophecy shows how God works through those who believe, not through unbelievers. 23 Suppose the whole church meets together and you all speak in different languages. If some people come in who are without understanding or don’t believe, they will say you are crazy. 24 But suppose you are all prophesying and someone comes in who does not believe or who is without understanding. Their sin will be shown to them, and they will be judged by everything you say. 25 The secret things in their heart will be made known. So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, “Without a doubt, God is here with you.”

Isaiah 28:11

New International Version
Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,

Berean Study Bible
Indeed, with mocking lips and foreign tongues, He will speak to this people

Amplified Bible
Indeed, the LORD will teach this people [in a more humiliating way] By [men with] stammering lips and a foreign tongue,

Brenton Septuagint Translation
by reason of the contemptuous words of the lips, by means of another language: for they shall speak to this people, saying to them,

Good News Translation
If you won't listen to me, then God will use foreigners speaking some strange-sounding language to teach you a lesson.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD will speak to these people. He will mock them by speaking in a foreign language.

International Standard Version
Very well, then, through the mouths of foreigners and foreign languages the LORD will speak to this people

Literal Standard Version
For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Does He speak to this people.

NET Bible
For with mocking lips and a foreign tongue he will speak to these people.

Young's Literal Translation
For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Doth He speak unto this people.

Catholic Public Domain Version
For with the speech of lips and with a different language, he will speak to this people.

Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
Because with difficult speech and in another language I shall speak with this people

Lamsa Bible
For with a difficult speech and with an alien tongue will he speak to this people.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
by reason of the contemptuous words of the lips, by means of another language: for they shall speak to this people, saying to them,

NET Bible
For with mocking lips and a foreign tongue he will speak to these people.
The Acts account is Luke's journal entry of what happened on the Day of Pentecost. It was not meant to be any sort of definitive doctrinal teaching about the nature of the gift of tongues. Acts 2 was a one-off miracle not related to the gift of tongues as defined in 1 Corinthians 14. It was the fulfillment of the Isaiah's prophecy that you have quoted in several versions.

Also, the languages spoken on the Day of Pentecost were not mocking or contemptuous. If you read the account carefully you will see that the disciples were speaking of the wonderful works of God in the different regional languages. So, to use our quoted references to imply that those who speak in tongues are being mocking or contemptuous, is a total misuse of Scripture to try and prove a point.

Even though you are using very large text to ram your points home, your argument still goes down like a zeppelin in flames.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,659
7,676
113
oh that's great skippy

first you tell me what a godly person I am, then because I disagree with your view on prophets, you have been following me around from thread to thread like a lost person posting x's and thumbs down

the hypocrisy is very revealing.

what is your point? do you feel good being such a small person?
And then you go right back and do it again, I don't ever recall you being this abrupt until just lately. Nothing another person says or does justifys this. I gets in the way of your work for the kingdom, the winning of crowns to lay at His feet on that day each of us has ahead of us.:unsure::)
best wishes
 
Mar 17, 2021
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I have never met a single person who has every Gift of the Holy Spirit. Generally, we have a couple and some have 3 or 4. I have met a few who claimed to have them all. But I looked at em and said, LYING, [is not] a Gift of the Holy Spirit and walked away.
The gifts of the Spirit are for the Body of Christ and not for the possession of individual people. It is like a mechanical workshop where the tools are supplied for the use of the workers. The workers don't own the tools. They have the use of them as required. In the same way, the Holy Spirit owns the gifts, or tools, and distributes them to be used by selected people as required.

Therefore, any person who says that they own one or more of the gifts of the Spirit for them to manifest at any time they choose, is guilty of presumption. In fact, he is trying to steal from the Holy Spirit by taking possession of a facility that the Holy Spirit owns, for himself.