Total Depravity

[PaulThomson]

Why would God need to change His mind when He knows the end from the beginning? How is He changing His mind when it has always been His intention to forgive those who repent?

Who are you, O woman, to contradict God? If God says he repented, who are you to contradict Him and say He did not.

 

[PaulThomson]

God says things for our sake. According to our limited understanding He accommodates us.

In reality, God can not repent.
Not if He is truly God, He can't.

Who are you, O man, to contradict God, He says he repented. Who are you to say He did not?

 

[Hakawaka]

Why would God need to change His mind when He knows the end from the beginning? How is He changing His mind when it has always been His intention to forgive those who repent?

The Bible says God "repents" a.k.a changes His mind, relents of judging if people repent and repents of the good things if people disobey.

However that works out in philosophy, don't know, but I have to agree that @PaulThomson has a good case here once again with Open theism, it would explain this. I have to look into it more, but one thing is for certain, ALL views have philosophical and or biblical troubles. Certain thngs we see dimly

 

[Genez]

Who are you, O man, to contradict God, He says he repented. Who are you to say He did not?

Understand God for once and you will stop the self righteous indignation act.

God must use language of accommodation because we have limited minds.
God also wants us to expand our understanding and to better know Him in grace and knowledge....

Not remain babies.

 

[PaulThomson]

They aren't just dead. They are under the dominion of Satan...according to the prince of the power of the air. This is what so many leave out. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Dominion is one of those works.
Another thing that often goes unconsidered is that Christians recognize that they can do nothing apart from Christ, but somehow believe the unconverted can operate just fine without Him. We were without God and without HOPE in this world. We were in a completely helpless position. Then, some awesome words...but God...

O yeah. Just trigger and race down the synaptic superhighway to another talking point and text that you assume you actually thought your way to. Slaves are not incapable of disobeying their masters. Biblical and real life dominion are nothing like the calvinist concept of sovereignty.

Every human being lives and moves and has their being in Christ. No one can operate without Him. If we live and move and have our being in God, what could it mean that we were without God and without hope in the world before putting our trust in Christ? Certainly not that we were in a completely helpless position, since we were not completely helpless.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In reality, God can not repent.
Not if He is truly God, He can't.

The Bible does not lie or mislead. So yes, God can and does, and did "repent" (have a change of mind).

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. (Exod 32:14)

And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. ( 1 Chron 22:15)

And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies. (Ps 106:45)

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:10)

The Hebrew word is naham (naw-kham) which has various meanings, but in the case of God repenting it means to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion.

This does not limit God in any way. He repented "according to the multitude of His mercies". This is always in connection with a change of mind about the evil He would to sinners (meaning that He would express His wrath).

 

[Genez]

since we were not completely helpless.

Live to be 300.

Can you do it?

 

[PaulThomson]

Understand God for once and you will stop the self righteous indignation act.

God must use language of accommodation because we have limited minds.
God also wants us to expand our understanding and to better know Him in grace and knowledge....

Not remain babies.

When someone, especially God, uses language to help someone else understand their point, the result is presumably to express the reality in as clear a manner as possible.

Why would God say that He repented to make it clear to mankind that He is incapable of repenting?

 

[PaulThomson]

Live to be 300.

Can you do it?

Failing to live to 300 proves one is COMPLETELY helpless? How so?

 

[Genez]

The Bible does not lie or mislead. So yes, God can and does, and did "repent" (have a change of mind).

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. (Exod 32:14)

Language of accommodation.

Idiots need it when a genius addresses them and the genius can not possibly explain his perspective..

Ironically? God always knew He would repent.

So? How could He?

Its called... "language of accommodation."

 

[Cameron143]

O yeah. Just trigger and race down the synaptic superhighway to another talking point and text that you assume you actually thought your way to. Slaves are not incapable of disobeying their masters. Biblical and real life dominion are nothing like the calvinist concept of sovereignty.

Every human being lives and moves and has their being in Christ. No one can operate without Him. If we live and move and have our being in God, what could it mean that we were without God and without hope in the world before putting our trust in Christ? Certainly not that we were in a completely helpless position, since we were not completely helpless.

Wow...so angry. I like the synaptic superhighway, might use this sometime. But I actually thought you would be very proud of me for actually giving all the information in the passage. I'm a little disappointed.
Also, we don't all have our being IN CHRIST. That only applies to those actually in Christ. And while slaves can disobey their masters, they can't purchase their own freedom. They must be purchased by another who is willing to free them. Could you list for me all those Satan has set free?

 

[PaulThomson]

i have been saying those passages are prefiguring Christ mediating for us in heaven, making propitiation for sin on the cross, and God forgiving sin, in His mercy & lovingkindness looking over tresspass and relenting from the condemnation we deserve.

that by doing so, these things do not represent God being restricted by time, as the open theist suggests, but in fact show that His eternal purpose of redemption remains unchanged.

that these are not contradictions of Malachi 3:6, "I The LORD change not" - they are affirmations of it. His name is Salvation and He saves.

It is not at all a reasonable approach to comprehending a Hebraic old testament text to reject its prima facie account of what God did on the basis that if the prima facie sense would concfict with the metaphysical presuppositions of Greek Platonism.

 

[Magenta]

Wow...so angry. I like the synaptic superhighway, might use this sometime. But I actually thought you would be very proud of me for actually giving all the information in the passage. I'm a little disappointed.
Also, we don't all have our being IN CHRIST. That only applies to those actually in Christ. And while slaves can disobey their masters, they can't purchase their own freedom. They must be purchased by another who is willing to free them. Could you list for me all those Satan has set free?

Being captive to the will of the devil apparently means nothing to some people. Same with slaves to sin.

 

[Genez]

When someone, especially God, uses language to help someone else understand their point, the result is presumably to express the reality in as clear a manner as possible.

Why would God say that He repented to make it clear to mankind that He is incapable of repenting?

Because human reasoning can understand what repenting means.

Instead?
What if...God said? .... I said that to you to scare the hell out of you, so you would change the course you were taking.

And, I always knew you would change.

So.. To make you feel like you have a sense of control over your own life? I said. "I repented."

God does not want to drive frail humanity insane with too much information they can not handle.
You need proof?
Just look at the Calvinists!

 

[PaulThomson]

Wow...so angry. I like the synaptic superhighway, might use this sometime. But I actually thought you would be very proud of me for actually giving all the information in the passage. I'm a little disappointed.
Also, we don't all have our being IN CHRIST. That only applies to those actually in Christ. And while slaves can disobey their masters, they can't purchase their own freedom. They must be purchased by another who is willing to free them. Could you list for me all those Satan has set free?

I don't know what you interpret as anger there.

Is Christ not now omnipotent and omnipresent? Is Christ not God? Does Christ not now uphold all things by the word of His power? Hpw can all these be facts, but there be persons who do not live and move and have their being in Him?

One does not have to purchase one's own freedom before one can trust someone other that one's present slave-owner.

Satan has his household plundered regularly by the One Stronger than he.

 

[PaulThomson]

While those verses teach that all come into the world with a fallen nature and practice the same, they don't identify sheep or goats, wheat or tares. You assume them into the passage.

What are the attributes of goats that make them different from sheep? Are there people who are like goats who become like sheep in this regard?

What are the attributes of tares that make them different from wheat? Are there people who are like tares who become like wheat in this regard?

 

[posthuman]

The Bible does not lie or mislead. So yes, God can and does, and did "repent" (have a change of mind).

And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. (Exod 32:14)

And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. ( 1 Chron 22:15)

And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies. (Ps 106:45)

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:10)

The Hebrew word is naham (naw-kham) which has various meanings, but in the case of God repenting it means to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion.

This does not limit God in any way. He repented "according to the multitude of His mercies". This is always in connection with a change of mind about the evil He would to sinners (meaning that He would express His wrath).

the literal meaning of Strong's 5162 nacham is to sigh.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't know what you interpret as anger there.

Is Christ not now omnipotent and omnipresent? Is Christ not God? Does Christ not now uphold all things by the word of His power? Hpw can all these be facts, but there be persons who do not live and move and have their being in Him?

One does not have to purchase one's own freedom before one can trust someone other that one's present slave-owner.

Satan has his household plundered regularly by the One Stronger than he.

Satan is having his house plundered. And it is Christ who is doing it; not the inhabitants of the house.

Being IN CHRIST is how one lives and moves and has their being IN HIM.

Jesus has always been the One who has upheld all things by the word of His power. Otherwise, chaos would ensue.

 

[Cameron143]

What are the attributes of goats that make them different from sheep? Are there people who are like goats who become like sheep in this regard?

What are the attributes of tares that make them different from wheat? Are there people who are like tares who become like wheat in this regard?

Jesus doesn't claim to have a goatfold. He doesn't claim to have come for lost goats. He does claim to separate the goats from the sheep.

 

[PaulThomson]

Because human reasoning can understand what repenting means.

Instead?
What if...God said? .... I said that to you to scare the hell out of you, so you would change the course you were taking.

And, I always knew you would change.

So.. To make you feel like you have a sense of control over your own life? I said. "I repented."

God does not want to drive frail humanity insane with too much information they can not handle.
You need proof?
Just look at the Calvinists!

Why would God want to scare the hell out of Moses, all the while knowing He was going to show mercy to Israel but nevertheless threatening Moses with their destruction? Surely, it was the Israelites who needed scaring, not Moses.

And what difference would it make whether God knew in advance how Israel would behave, or God discovered in real time how Israel would behave and adjusted His strategies in real time to shepherd the people into the promised land?