Understand clearly why we are no longer under the law

[Brother_Don]

Proverbs 2:1, My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; Proverbs 2: 21-22, For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. but the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

 

[Brother_Don]

Malachi 3:6, For I am the LORD, I change not; therefor ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. return unto me, and I will return unto you, sayeth the LORd of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel with the statutes and judgments.

 

[The_highwayman]

All people of God do keep the spirit of the 613. All are based on love and how to live in love. Some we keep through Christ, for instance Christ is the temple now, we keep the spirit of those laws through Christ. They had no jails or prisons then, we use jails when a law is deemed that important. We are told not to be obedient by the letter of the law, but we are to obey by the spirit, and we are given the Holy Spirit now to help us do that.

So all 613 are positive commandments and things you are commanded to do?

 

[RedTent]

My Bible teaches that the Mosaic Covenant was Between only God & Israel and the Law went away when Christ died.

Romans 7.5-6
Romans 10.4

We all need to be aware of this teaching in the church. They teach that God did not use the Jews for our sakes, that God cared not a bit for us when He spoke to Jews. Do you really think that the God who created you would speak and use only one race of people, a tiny percentage of the people God created?

Christ makes it possible to be forgiven of anything the law tells us kills us, this scripture tells us so. It wouldn't make sense if it is read as saying we are to wipe out any knowing about what would kill us if we hadn't of had atonement, and if we didn't have Christ.

Do you think that scripture would tell us that the law is telling us to do such as lie, murder, and disobey parents? That scripture would tell us that we must manage to obey in spirit and disobey actually at the same time?

 

[RedTent]

So all 613 are positive commandments and things you are commanded to do?

Not if you disobey God and only obey the law in a literal way, legalistically. If you are a Christian who obeys in spirit and truth, open to hearing the spirit and truth in all scripture says, yes. The law isn't given to people who are spiritually dead and cannot understand scripture. Spiritually dead people even read these words as orders to kill, that is because they cannot hear what God is saying.

 

[The_highwayman]

We all need to be aware of this teaching in the church. They teach that God did not use the Jews for our sakes, that God cared not a bit for us when He spoke to Jews. Do you really think that the God who created you would speak and use only one race of people, a tiny percentage of the people God created?

Christ makes it possible to be forgiven of anything the law tells us kills us, this scripture tells us so. It wouldn't make sense if it is read as saying we are to wipe out any knowing about what would kill us if we hadn't of had atonement, and if we didn't have Christ.

Do you think that scripture would tell us that the law is telling us to do such as lie, murder, and disobey parents? That scripture would tell us that we must manage to obey in spirit and disobey actually at the same time?

It is not what I think red tent, its what the Bible teaches. The Mosaic Covenant was not made with God and all of mankind, it was made between God and Israel via Moses. This covenant came to an end when Jesus died.

Living for Jesus means I do not disobey, lie, cheat, commit murder or adultery, because I love Jesus and I am thankful for his sacrifice to me and accepted salvation. Not because, I am under an obligation to love him and honor by keeping commandments of a set of Laws, I was never under covenant to honor in the first place. You are not bound by Mosaic Law and neither is anyone, including Jews that believe in Jesus, the Bible tells you this in black and white.

Many, including yourself get confused between the Mosaic Law/Covenant and the Noahic Law/Covenant. Mosaic came to end with the death of Jesus. The Noahic Covenant is still very much in effect, despite the fact we are no longer in the dispensation of human Government.

 

[The_highwayman]

Not if you disobey God and only obey the law in a literal way, legalistically. If you are a Christian who obeys in spirit and truth, open to hearing the spirit and truth in all scripture says, yes. The law isn't given to people who are spiritually dead and cannot understand scripture. Spiritually dead people even read these words as orders to kill, that is because they cannot hear what God is saying.

Ok, I let you go on a few times, but you really need to study up here and stop commenting on something you think you know and understand.

Of the 613 Mossiac Commandments, 365 were negative commandments, and talked about things which were forbidden. the remaining 248 were positive commandments and things you should do and keep. If you broke one, you broke all of them.

I find it rather telling that you are such a follower of the Law but fail to know these things and have little understanding of Biblical Covenants.

 

[Woodartdon]

Can you hear yourself? Is it more important that the truth be understood or that the sovereignty of the churches be protected?! I can easily imagine the Pharisees telling the Lord the same type of things. I am not here for those whom care about the church, I am here for the sheep who long for the truth.

Woody, I WISH you could understand how and why you are correct in everything you say, but some of it still damages the church, the place where God lives. You need not change what you know, you need only add something to it that you aren't thinking of.

Our churches have been a stronghold for the Lord, places that lead the world. Many are now watered down with accepting sin. There are even churches that accept immoral ministers to lead them. These people do not know the way God tells us we are not under law for our salvation. When they hear that, they read it as saying we don't have any need to obey law. I have even read postings by these people that God did not mean anything written as law as scripture.

It is wonderful to hear about love as the base of all law, of law useless except when it is from the heart, of how superior the law is as Christ gives it to us. Of how we are free of sin if we only put on Christ and listen to that. The many wonderful things we can teach.

But, we are guardians of scripture and the church. We must be careful to protect all of God. We are not to let the good things we know and teach be read as only something to wipe out the foundations of what is so good. With the foundation of truth wiped out, the new truth can't stand.

It is wonderful to teach the new, but if that is a teaching of wiping out what was before so the new has nothing to build on, then the new can't be truth, it only crumbles. It is a balance. It is like teaching the old as what we must hear only, now. The complete truth is of the new.

I really despair of anyone hearing me! When this is read back, they say I personally am going to hell. That I am teaching to go back to before Christ. All sorts of ways not to hear what I say! You will see the ways this post will be ripped apart and changed so it isn't of truth or scripture. But I keep trying.

 

[Woodartdon]

I have no idea as to the point you are trying to make here! I have in no way set myself out as perfect, though you seem to surly be! Your verse you present has absolutely nothing to do with my post but rather, your judging me, REPENT.

Perhaps in the resurrection, you can explain this wonderful truth to Paul...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Or else he just hasn't attained your level of righteousness.

 

[Woodartdon]

What does this have to do with my post??

Malachi 3:6, For I am the LORD, I change not; therefor ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. return unto me, and I will return unto you, sayeth the LORd of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel with the statutes and judgments.

 

[Woodartdon]

To blather on with unexplained verse is arrogance to the highest degree, worse yet is when those verse have nothing to do with the post?!

Proverbs 2:1, My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; Proverbs 2: 21-22, For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. but the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

 

[Woodartdon]

At the end of the long sermon starting in Matthew 5:1 and extending to Matthew 7:23 says nothing at all in contrast to my statement! Matthew 5:17-19 is one of the verse I am standing on in support of what I said! Say what you mean and stop hiding behind unexplained scripture!

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.


Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[Woodartdon]

You are really a bad judgmental person! How pompously arrogant of you whom say you are a follower of the most high God yet do not follow His teachings at all! Tell me where in the Bible a description of the Nicolatians can be found that I might consider your accusation comparison. You can not which make you so bad a person that I am sorry for you.

This is false doctrine of the Nicolatians that God hates

From Genesis to Revelation God intends us to obey his word
by faith
we have no righteousness, (right doing)
Jesus is our righteousness our right doing

his new covenant is his holy spirit writing the ten commandment law in our hearts so we will not sin
so we will be obedient

 

[RedTent]

Ok, I let you go on a few times, but you really need to study up here and stop commenting on something you think you know and understand.

Of the 613 Mossiac Commandments, 365 were negative commandments, and talked about things which were forbidden. the remaining 248 were positive commandments and things you should do and keep. If you broke one, you broke all of them.

I find it rather telling that you are such a follower of the Law but fail to know these things and have little understanding of Biblical Covenants.

I do understand, and you cannot hear a word! Go back in scripture from the beginning through to Revelation, and pick out every purpose God had for the salvation of the world. Try to find where God said he concentrated on saving the Jews, only. Or why God singled out Jews, what was their purpose?

Look for the purpose of any law God gave, put it together with the culture God gave the laws to. You say you have watched the 613 laws and sort them by negative and positive commands. Do that by sorting them, instead, by the Lord wanting a safe, abundant land for people who love Him, and if it is love for these people that directed the law. You have sorted using one criteria, what would be wrong with doing a sort on something else, too?

"I am such a follower of the law!!!" I am not "such" a follower of the law, I am a follower of scripture and in a corner of that scripture is law, too. If people said that grace was only Mosaic to be treated as you tell us to treat law, then it would be grace I would be standing for and you had decided on grace as you have decided on any written law, you would berate me for grace.

But you are right, it is hopeless to talk about scripture.

 

[ob77]

Soon after the disciples received the Spirit they began decreeing what felt good to their hearts, something we can observe as they try to persuade Paul to hold the gentiles to the Jewish customs of the time. They argued not over the understanding of the Words of Yeshua but over the logistics of the Torah, placing the Law before the Grace sealed by the sacrifice of the Lamb. They bickered over the Law of the Jews becoming the law of the converted gentile.

Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." NIV

Gal 2:19 For through the Law I died to the Law , so that I might live to God. NASU

Matt 5:17-20 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. NASU

Understand clearly why we are no longer under the law: we are not under the law for as followers of our Lord, we must surpass the law in the very infancy of our relationship with Him. The Law holds an unchanged heart to a standard considered acceptable by those in authority. To believe in God is to be changed at heart and that places standards high above the law. At that point to violate the law would be to violate one’s own self. For what surpasses the Law is "Love" and if you are practicing "Love" as our Lord practiced "Love" , breaking the law would be anything but "Love”.

Christ said he did not come to change one jot of the law. Those laws apply to the decendants of Adam. What laws would you do away with? Certain ordinances were done away with, but not the law. Do not be so vague, You offer Matt 5:17-20, and then say this does not matter. I adhere to what Christ Himself said. I say then, that you will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven. If you are of the seed of Adam, none of what you say is worth crap, for we have God's laws written in our hearts. Your lofty words come to nothing.

 

[Brother_Don]

woodartdon, i seen someone post that the Almighty changed, thats why i posted from Malachi. Don't get offensive. i'm not trying to hijack your thread, i just don't go for people lying and changing the truth, then saying the Almighty is the one that changed it.

 

[Grandpa]

woodartdon, i seen someone post that the Almighty changed, thats why i posted from Malachi. Don't get offensive. i'm not trying to hijack your thread, i just don't go for people lying and changing the truth, then saying the Almighty is the one that changed it.

Has our High Priest changed or not? IF that is the case, which it certainly is for me, then the law has changed.

How has the law changed? I no longer have a heart of stone that follows after the law written on stone, the Ministry of Death.
My High Priest has changed me from the inside, turning my heart of stone into a heart of flesh, causing love to be shed abroad inside this new heart of flesh. This law that is now written on my heart, the circumcision of my heart, is what fulfills the old law written on stones. But it is not me who fulfills the law written on stones, whenever I go back and try I see I can't do it perfectly. But when I abide in Christ I see He fulfills the law in me by the Holy Spirit.

That is why there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. They can't be condemned from any direction. Not from those who preach following the ministry of Death, nor from satan himself. Anyone who says you haven't done enough, you haven't kept a specific day holy, you don't keep the correct festivals, none of your works are good enough, you just agree with them. They are correct. You aren't perfect. But you are set aside. You are sanctified. You are cleansed. You are holy as He is holy. How? By the work of our High Priest, by faith.

I would much rather trust in His Work that He has already completed as well as His Work in me, than my own feeble attempts at my carnal understanding of keeping the law.

Hebrews 7:11-12,16
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life (there's the change).

 

[And]

Why dont you understand clearly this thread and the person writing it is confused?

The Devil converted and translated the whole bible into greek.
Why?
because it is unclear
it only has one word for LAW
Hebrews had FIVE WORDS FOR LAW

Greek has no words for YAHWEH so the modified ZEUS into JEsus

becuase YOU do not study, YOU are confused about the law

and the devil pulled his plan that took 1200 years to implement

confuse the law of sacrifices wich ended at JEsus death with the ten commandments

thats his whole game plan

it is clear to any student the the law of the sacrifices was totally DIFFERENT than the eternal ten commandmentns

says so,

the rituals were written on the scroll and put in the side of the ark
the ten commandments was written on rock and put INSIDE the ark
it is eternal
the rituals are removed as PAUL talks about in galations ephesians Romans Phillipians and 1 and 2 corinthieans

in original version he clearly differentiates by hebrew words which law he talks about but in greek the devil smasshed them all together into LAW

why?

to kill you

to kill those who refuse to study

WEll, die then
you cant convince me with any bible text that one jot or one tittle of the TEN COMMANDMENT law will NEVER BE REMOVED
NEVER EVER
it is Gods throne

yet Satan says its ok to kill steal rape [illage dishonor father and mother and keep sunday

if you are that simple minded
and that lazy
that you cant even check it out
you will die.
I am not going to die with you

I have the word of God
which you cannot reead

but beware

all the people that you CONVINCED to believe the law of God is no more bibnding,
all their souls will be on YOU and you will pay for THEIR SINS and the false lazy pastors who believe the wide road path to heaven by just saying a few words
will have a
fearful
day of judgment when the day of the Lord happens

Bible says every neighbor who discovers he is lost
will go to their pastors and they will pull off their arms and legs,...
they will be quite upseet at loosing eternal live because of false pastors.

so
do whatever you want
as for me and my house
we will keep the law as God asked and we will be part of the last remnant few people who:

keep the law the ten commandments and have right to the tree of life while the others do not.

rev 22:14 and 14:12

the devil and his pastors say keeping the law will not save you

never said it would
Jesus saves by his blood

but get this, o slow of heart

BREAKING THE LAW WILL CERTAINLY NEVER SAVE YOU

got it?

finis.

 

[crossnote]

Why dont you understand clearly this thread and the person writing it is confused?

The Devil converted and translated the whole bible into greek.
Why?
because it is unclear
it only has one word for LAW
Hebrews had FIVE WORDS FOR LAW

Greek has no words for YAHWEH so the modified ZEUS into JEsus

becuase YOU do not study, YOU are confused about the law

and the devil pulled his plan that took 1200 years to implement

confuse the law of sacrifices wich ended at JEsus death with the ten commandments

thats his whole game plan

it is clear to any student the the law of the sacrifices was totally DIFFERENT than the eternal ten commandmentns

says so,

the rituals were written on the scroll and put in the side of the ark
the ten commandments was written on rock and put INSIDE the ark
it is eternal
the rituals are removed as PAUL talks about in galations ephesians Romans Phillipians and 1 and 2 corinthieans

in original version he clearly differentiates by hebrew words which law he talks about but in greek the devil smasshed them all together into LAW

why?

to kill you

to kill those who refuse to study

WEll, die then
you cant convince me with any bible text that one jot or one tittle of the TEN COMMANDMENT law will NEVER BE REMOVED
NEVER EVER
it is Gods throne

yet Satan says its ok to kill steal rape [illage dishonor father and mother and keep sunday

if you are that simple minded
and that lazy
that you cant even check it out
you will die.
I am not going to die with you

I have the word of God
which you cannot reead

but beware

all the people that you CONVINCED to believe the law of God is no more bibnding,
all their souls will be on YOU and you will pay for THEIR SINS and the false lazy pastors who believe the wide road path to heaven by just saying a few words
will have a
fearful
day of judgment when the day of the Lord happens

Bible says every neighbor who discovers he is lost
will go to their pastors and they will pull off their arms and legs,...
they will be quite upseet at loosing eternal live because of false pastors.

so
do whatever you want
as for me and my house
we will keep the law as God asked and we will be part of the last remnant few people who:

keep the law the ten commandments and have right to the tree of life while the others do not.

rev 22:14 and 14:12

the devil and his pastors say keeping the law will not save you

never said it would
Jesus saves by his blood

but get this, o slow of heart

BREAKING THE LAW WILL CERTAINLY NEVER SAVE YOU

got it?

finis.

no, i did not 'get it'.
tell me which 'law' is Paul speaking of in Romans 7 where he says 'we have died to the law' and then uses an example from the law dealing with 'coveting'?

 

[And]

ok you say
we are no longer under the law

WHICH LAW are you talking about there are TWO DIFFERET LAWS

Just tell me which law you are talking about

the Jewish ritual law

or Gods eternal ten commandments?
Moses put each of these in different places

the ritual law was written on Papyrus scroll and put OUTSIDE the ark
the unchangeable eternal ten commandment rock is written on stone and put in the ark

WHICH LAW ARE WE FREE FROM?

Paul said we are free from ONE of them
which one is it?
he sais ONE of the laws we are free from did you know that

then in romans the last two verses he still tell us
BT THE TEN COMMANDMENT LAW STILL CONTINUES!

did you ever read Romans?
the ending it is clear he states the law is done but the law remains

which one?
tell me

in greek it is confusing

look it up

ok you wont

i will
GALATIANS CHAPTER 2
1 Then fourteen years later I went back to Jerusalem again, this time with Barnabas; and Titus came along, too. 2 I went there because God revealed to me that I should go. While I was there I talked privately with the leaders of the church. I wanted them to understand what I had been preaching to the Gentiles. I wanted to make sure they did not disagree, or my ministry would have been useless. 3 And they did agree. They did not even demand that my companion Titus be circumcised, though he was a Gentile. 4 Even that question wouldn't have come up except for some so-called Christians there -- false ones, really -- who came to spy on us and see our freedom in Christ Jesus. They wanted to force us, like slaves, to follow their Jewish regulations. THIS IS NOT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS! It is the JEWISH REGULATIONS!