Understanding God’s election

[Inquisitor]

Got some questions:
What is the difference between selection and election?
Would Isaac have been born if God doesn't intervene? Anything being taught in this?
After forming the nation of Israel, God brings salvation almost exclusively to this nation, to the exclusion of almost all other nations. Any problem with this?

Your question does not make sense Cameron.

Synonyms for ELECT: choose, select, pick, take, prefer, designate, name, nominate.

No difference they are both synonyms.

 

[Cranberry]

Not just Pharaoh...
It concerns believers in the church as well.

Do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness.

Hebrews 3:8

​

See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns
away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called
“Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to
share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Hebrews 3:12-14

.....​

I see the difference there as God having hardened Pharaoh's heart
While the condition of sin nature is of God by making a separation between God and man so that man is hardened to the things of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

I went deeper into reformed theology than you have? I went all the way down the rabbit hole.

I tried to sugar coat my belief of "saved THEN belief" Or how election and predestination was about salvation. I tried to reason every part of my TULIP. And all of you folks are using the very same "sugar coating" I used to try to explain my contradictions.

This was sent to me once and I find it so true about the different modes they employ, this is one of four.

PASTORAL mode:

Here he utilizes soft-spoken—emotive, religious or sophistic language to hide the system’s glorified-evil components while projecting benevolence.

In Pastoral mode, his language is often designed to mimic the language of mainstream Christianity, which, ironically he sternly condemns as soon as he switches back into Theological-boasting mode. And this tactic of alternating between modes mode, may be likened to a double-agent, operating within two countries in conflict with each other.

Br. D (anonymous)

 

[Cameron143]

I could literally write a book about Isaac, so I will withhold from answering this question until you tell me what you think the significance might be. That way, I will know what to specifically address.

Not that difficult a question. The first is yes or no. Easy peasy. The second, connect it to salvation.

 

[Cameron143]

Your question does not make sense Cameron.

Synonyms for ELECT: choose, select, pick, take, prefer, designate, name, nominate.

No difference they are both synonyms.

Then answer the other 2 questions.

 

[HeIsHere]

I get that, but I honestly believe, as I assume that you do too, that the verses which they use to make this argument are all taken out of context.

I have stated that very thing over and over again, lol in this thread I think, Calvinism makes everything blurry! Terrible hermeneutics, sorry but absolutely true.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

It all hinges on the idea man cannot believe and the Gospel message is not sufficient because he is blind, a sinner, has a heart of stone, is born evil and the Gospel is foolishness unless god provides the ability to believe.

Btw, in addition to what I said in my previous response, I definitely believe that God is the one who is doing the drawing, or that he is the one who is striving with men while seeking to reconcile them back unto himself through Christ. In other words, there are two parties involved here. God who is drawing, and men who are willfully submitting to or willfully rejecting such drawings.

 

[Cranberry]

It's completely fair. And it makes complete sense. Him doing it this way........makes salvation possible to ALL. If we were left to our own devices and had our chance like Adam. We ALL would have failed and died. God put a halt to that the moment Adam failed and condemned us ALL. So His salvation could go to ALL.

You see, God is concerned about redemption and saving that which is lost. If we focus on the creature and our doom and gloom, It's dark and hopeless. But God provided us ALL with a way out. Light and true HOPE.

If we follow that hypotheses we may notice we are all born failed and dead in our sin the moment we arrive at an age of accountability for our sins.

Salvation from the sin of all occurs because the sin of one condemned all to sin and be sinners first.

 

[HeIsHere]

Btw, in addition to what I said in my previous response, I definitely believe that God is the one who is doing the drawing, or that he is the one who is striving with men while seeking to reconcile them back unto himself through Christ. In other words, there are two parties involved here. God who is drawing, and men who are willfully submitting to or willfully rejecting such drawings.

The point of contention is "inability to believe from birth" as I stated above God draws in many ways, but belief is always man's responsibility and yes he can believe.

Soon as you say he cannot believe because of his fallen nature than that person is outside scripture. imho

 

[Magenta]

I went deeper into reformed theology than you have? I went all the way down the rabbit hole.

I tried to sugar coat my belief of "saved THEN belief" Or how election and predestination was about salvation. I tried to reason every part of my TULIP. And all of you folks are using the very same "sugar coating" I used to try to explain my contradictions.

I do not advocate for or promote tulip. I would say try again but you're not gonna get it right so why bother.

 

[Cameron143]

The point of contention is "inability to believe from birth" as I stated above God draws in many ways, but belief is always man's responsibility and yes he can believe.

Soon as you say he cannot believe because of his fallen nature than that person is outside scripture. imho

This isn't exactly correct. Man has the ability to understand and believe the gospel. But...he is disinclined to do so. He understands the gospel, but rejects it because to him it is foolishness.

His inability is in the area of inclination. Hence, the necessity of a new heart.

 

[Kroogz]

This was sent to me once and I find it so true about the different modes they employ, this is one of four.

PASTORAL mode:

Here he utilizes soft-spoken—emotive, religious or sophistic language to hide the system’s glorified-evil components while projecting benevolence.

In Pastoral mode, his language is often designed to mimic the language of mainstream Christianity, which, ironically he sternly condemns as soon as he switches back into Theological-boasting mode. And this tactic of alternating between modes mode, may be likened to a double-agent, operating within two countries in conflict with each other.

Br. D (anonymous)

That NAILS it. And I witnessed it first hand. I was in the "exclusive" mens Bible(it was reformed study) study in my old church. It was night and day from what you heard during church to the "Bible" study!

 

[Inquisitor]

Did Adam have freewill before sin? Then how can you say freewill must be tied to faith?

We do not know whether Adam had a perfect free will, only that the creation was good.

We do not know whether the gospel penetrates man's inability to listen to the truth.

Perhaps it does and all the world has heard the call of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

This isn't exactly correct. Man has the ability to understand and believe the gospel. But...he is disinclined to do so. He understands the gospel, but rejects it because to him it is foolishness.

Opps missed that part... Soon as you say he cannot believe and respond positively (personal act of faith in Christ Jesus and his work on our behalf) because of his fallen nature than that person is outside scripture.

Yeah I have dealt with 2Cor 2:14 multiple times as it was meant to be understood by that audience at that time first and foremost!!

 

[HeIsHere]

That NAILS it. And I witnessed it first hand. I was in the "exclusive" mens Bible(it was reformed study) study in my old church. It was night and day from what you heard during church to the "Bible" study!

I know eh!!

From people who escape this dogma, they are truly a blessing!!
Helps us recover.

 

[Cameron143]

Opps missed that part... Soon as you say he cannot believe and respond positively (personal act of faith in Christ Jesus and his work on our behalf) because of his fallen nature than that person is outside scripture.

Yeah I have dealt with 2Cor 2:14 multiple times as it was meant to be understood by that audience at that time first and foremost!!

I was referring to 1 Corinthians 1:18. So how is someone referencing scripture outside of scripture?

 

[Inquisitor]

I went deeper into reformed theology than you have? I went all the way down the rabbit hole.

I tried to sugar coat my belief of "saved THEN belief" Or how election and predestination was about salvation. I tried to reason every part of my TULIP. And all of you folks are using the very same "sugar coating" I used to try to explain my contradictions.

How could you struggle with God hating 95% of society?

How could you struggle with God hating the reprobate?

What don't you understand about God is love and God hates everyone?

You are an enigma.

 

[Inquisitor]

I get that, but I honestly believe, as I assume that you do too, that the verses which they use to make this argument are all taken out of context.

Don't mention context whatever you do.

You will upend the entire Christian world.

 

[Kroogz]

How could you struggle with God hating 95% of society?

How could you struggle with God hating the reprobate?

What don't you understand about God is love and God hates everyone?

You are an enigma.

I will give you my old standard playbook answer: That is not what reformed theology teaches. You are misrepresenting reformed theology.

Now. I apologize I was caught up in that heresy.

 

[Magenta]

This isn't exactly correct. Man has the ability to understand and believe the gospel. But...he is disinclined to do so. He understands the gospel, but rejects it because to him it is foolishness.

His inability is in the area of inclination.

This is one place where you and I diverge because I believe Jesus came to give sight to the blind and unstop the ears of the deaf... While raising us to new life yes to save the sinner in all his wretchedness... and He spoke every once in a while... certainly often enough... to those who could hear and identified them as those with EARS to hear as the one who could understand. This is contrasted against those who are perishing to whom the gospel being preached is foolishness, and I don't believe they do understand it. He also plainly told some that it was given to them to understand, but not to others. How unfair God is in some people's view, eh??? I wonder how often those peopke think to themselvws, how dare He.. and oh yes @keepingthingsreal ... you would probably maybe would not believe the disgusting blasphemous things said about God and attributed to us as if those disgusting things they make up and project onto us (yes specifically Cameron and I but probably others, too) were true just because we believe God does act unilaterally... Yes His Sovereignty certainly gets derided there. anyway back to Cameron... As well as telling people (and it was commanded) in the Old Testament also to circumcise their ears... well I did not circumcise my own ears... they were also told to circumcise their hearts... well I did not circumcise my own heart... in fact in the New Testament we are told that heart circumcision is Spiritual, a matter and operation of the Holy Spirit prefigured by the physical circumcision people underwent in the Old Testament. Part of the reason for my run on sentences is that I am on my phone and I do apologize for the lack of grammar I do try to edit it in.