Understanding God’s election

[cv5]

Your handicap is that you have wedded yourself to a concept that is not mentioned in the bible: monergism. This means that every word or phrase in scripture you interpret through that fictitious lens.

Synergism, however, does appear more than once once in the Bible, literally,
16:20 ἐκεῖνοι δὲ ἐξελθόντες ἐκήρυξαν πανταχοῦ τοῦ κυρίου συνεργοῦντος καὶ τὸν λόγον βεβαιοῦντος διὰ τῶν ἐπακολουθούντων σημείων Ἀμήν
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him (Συνεργοῦντες ), beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

συνεργέω, συνεργῷ; imperfect 3 person singular συνήργει; (συνεργός, which see); from Euripides, Xenophon, Demosthenes down; Vulg.cooperor ((in 2 Corinthians 6:1adjuco)); to work together, help in work, be a partner in labor:

It is not "EITHER God does something OR we do it".

Because of your bewitchment into the priesthood of monergism, you seem blinded to the way God works together with us and we work together with Him to get things done, including salvation.

Repentance is empty and meaningless unless it is issued from the heart by an act of
FREE WILL. Some FREELY CHOOSE to repent and believe, others FREELY CHOOSE to deny Him and CHOOSE to do their own will.
And YES, the Holy Ghost is indeed the One Who is graciously calling, we are the responders. This sort of interaction is everywhere in the Bible from cover to cover. Undeniably.

[Mat 21:31 KJV]
Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

[Mat 21:32 KJV]
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

***********************************************************
[Jhn 8:44 KJV]
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own (will): for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[HeIsHere]

When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!

That particular passage, once again, is not about God choosing some for salvation and not others.

Thank you God, I do not have to remind myself that you choose some and not others, since that is not your plan of salvation.

Yes, a doctrine that tears at the soul needs constant reassurance for its members, we are in this together mentality promotes cohesiveness.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, a doctrine that tears at the soul needs constant reassurance for its members, we are in this together mentality promotes cohesiveness.

Says the person who reassured herself and others that they could comfort themselves
with the knowledge that they were in the majority (as far as her figuring methods determined).

Which is really a funny fallacy. But take your delusional wins where you can, dear.

Yes, the Bible says not all can hear. Faith comes by hearing. Jesus did come to unstop the ears of the deaf. People were
not born with ears to hear, nor eyes to see, or with a heart that could believe as you and yours so falsely promote.

You reduce faith to making a moral decision, with people choosing to believe that which they can neither receive nor comprehend.

John 8:43, 47, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:8, John 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” John 8:47 “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 4:4 plus I wonder how when someone is blind to something, which, let's face it, means they cannot see it at all, or comprehend it, and finds the message connected to it foolishness, and is hostile in their minds toward the One True God behind it all, and loves evil, and suppresses truth, and cannot come to God on his own, being a slave of sin and unable to submit to God's law... I wonder how these people who push "free will" think such a person suddenly decides to throw over their very human nature and choose something he cannot even receive... some say without any help from God at all.

 

[Magenta]

John 12:38b-40 “Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the Lord
been revealed?” For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.”

 

[Magenta]

2 Corinthians 4:4

 

[Magenta]

Isaiah 42:16 ~ I will lead the blind by a way they did not know; I will guide them on unfamiliar paths. I will turn darkness into light before them and rough places into level ground. These things I will do for them, and I will not forsake them.
The person promoting free will of the natural man denies that God must do a work in the
person before they can believe, despite a multitude of Scriptures that attest otherwise.
They abhor giving God the glory and insist it belongs to them for choosing correctly.
They claim the ability to raise themselves to new life in Christ by "making a moral decision."
They have the corrupt tree bringing forth good fruit even though Jesus said that was not possible.
In fact, when asked who then can be saved, Jesus explicitly said it was impossible with man.
But oh, the free willer ignores that too, throws it over, and insists they made it possible.

 

[cv5]

When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!

My friend, I suggest that you jettison the Calvinist baggage and do a comprehensive study of Romans 9, and
come to terms with what Paul is referring to when he quotes Jeremiah 18.
Because super-deterministic Calvinism is nowhere to be found therein.
However, the will of God interfacing and interacting with the WILL OF MEN is there, and everywhere else for that matter.
Furthermore, the topic of the chapter deals with why God supposedly rejected THE NATION Israel.
So start from there and take the Calvinist blinders off.

[Jer 18:4 KJV]
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].

[Jer 18:5 KJV]
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

[Jer 18:6 KJV]
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay [is] in the potter's hand, so [are] ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

[Jer 18:7 KJV]
[At what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy [it];

[Jer 18:8 KJV]
If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

[Jer 18:9 KJV]
And [at what] instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant [it];

[Jer 18:10 KJV]
If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

**********************************************************************

[Rom 9:3 KJV]
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

[Rom 9:6 KJV]
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

[Rom 9:7 KJV]
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

 

[GWH]

2 Corinthians 4:4 plus I wonder how when someone is blind to something, which, let's face it, means they cannot see it at all, or comprehend it, and finds the message connected to it foolishness, and is hostile in their minds toward the One True God behind it all, and loves evil, and suppresses truth, and cannot come to God on his own, being a slave of sin and unable to submit to God's law... I wonder how these people who push "free will" think such a person suddenly decides to throw over their very human nature and choose something he cannot even receive... some say without any help from God at all.

Do you include yourself in being blinded?

 

[Magenta]

Do you include yourself in being blinded?

I once was blind, yes. Praise God, He opened my eyes. You have a thread going about music, and one of my earliest
modern praise and worship songs addressed the issue very nicely, I still love that song by Matt Maher. It told my story...
I did not decide to believe. God punctured my unbelief many times with revelations of Himself, which some free willers
here will mock because it seems they have not experienced God. They say such experiences make God unfair. But, if
God had not kept His promise to reveal Himself, I doubt I would have ever become a believer.

 

[cv5]

When God withholds mercy on some, does that make Him unfair or unjust? Romans 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

You must get very downcast every time you read scripture!
Just remember, none deserve this kindness and mercy even though some receive it!

You need to invest 40 hours or so and hear this entire lecture series on Romans 9.
Think of it as electro-shock Biblical therapy.
Just keyword in Esau or Jacob to the search field and get them all and download to your phone.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/23151830118/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/22215251321/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/3415138174/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/2261536440/

https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/cliffside/sermons/213151346170/

 

[Rufus]

Your handicap is that you have wedded yourself to a concept that is not mentioned in the bible: monergism. This means that every word or phrase in scripture you interpret through that fictitious lens.

Synergism, however, does appear more than once once in the Bible, literally,
16:20 ἐκεῖνοι δὲ ἐξελθόντες ἐκήρυξαν πανταχοῦ τοῦ κυρίου συνεργοῦντος καὶ τὸν λόγον βεβαιοῦντος διὰ τῶν ἐπακολουθούντων σημείων Ἀμήν
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him (Συνεργοῦντες ), beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

συνεργέω, συνεργῷ; imperfect 3 person singular συνήργει; (συνεργός, which see); from Euripides, Xenophon, Demosthenes down; Vulg.cooperor ((in 2 Corinthians 6:1adjuco)); to work together, help in work, be a partner in labor:

It is not "EITHER God does something OR we do it".

Because of your bewitchment into the priesthood of monergism, you seem blinded to the way God works together with us and we work together with Him to get things done, including salvation.

Yeah...and with whom precisely was the the "Lord working with"? Are the ungodly of this world working together with God? And who are the "us" in 2Cor 5:21: all men in the world w/o exception?

 

[Rufus]

There is one common theme among all satanic religions, they’re all of works, they all share a “synergistic soteriology”.

And this is because Satan's seed in this world want to be just like their father, who wanted to be like God. Synergists covet God's glory which is why they want to rob Him of his.

 

[NOV25]

And this is because Satan's seed in this world want to be just like their father, who wanted to be like God. Synergists covet God's glory which is why they want to rob Him of his.

True. The satanic spirit seeks to usurp, to claim ability belonging only to God.

That’s why I don’t argue with synergists who hate a monergistic God, would be like debating soteriology with a Luciferian-pointless.

 

[Rufus]

Loving neighbor is secondary to loving God per MT 22:37-40.

So now you're saying that the Good Samaritan didn't love God? It seems to me that the Good Samaritan is actually MORE righteous and loving than God since he actually and effectively rescued a helpless human being. The Samaritan just didn't toss the half-dead Jew a lifeline and tell him all he has to do is grab onto it. He didn't merely supply him an opportunity to save himself. The Good Samaritan actually performed a good work from start to finish; whereas your god just sits passively on the sideline sweating bullets and wringing his hands hoping that people will respond to his offer of salvation.

Moreover, your god is a hypocrite since he does not work efficaciously in people's lives to free them from the bondage of sin, the law, the world and the devil. God's a hypocrite because He requires his people to do the very thing that you say God cannot do because a fascist dictator and power-hungry monster.

James 2:12-18
12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by [effectual] action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do
NIV

Funny...how this works, isn't it? God requires that his people put their love for him and others into real positive, effectual action -- the very thing you FWs insist God cannot or would never do! Your god is the kind who would have led the ancient Jews to the Red Sea and then would have sat by passively watching the Egyptians bear down hard on his people. Your god would have told the Hebrews, "Hey look; I have brought you this far, now all you've got to do is your part to save yourself from Pharaoh and his army".

BTW, how are you doing with all those OT passages that don't teach that God loves all men w/o exception?

 

[Magenta]

Moreover, your god is a hypocrite since he does not work efficaciously in people's lives to free them from
the bondage of sin, the law, the world and the devil. God's a hypocrite because He requires his people to
do the very thing that you say God cannot do because a fascist dictator and power-hungry monster.

Ah, well, the monster of a tyrant free willers make God out to be for acting unilaterally? Yikes. Oh, and
let us not forget, kidnapping people against their "free" will, while being captive to the will of the devil.
Jeepers. I am so grateful that God rescued me from the dominion of darkness and brought me into His kingdom.

Psalm 145:20-21

 

[Rufus]

Repentance is empty and meaningless unless it is issued from the heart by an act of
FREE WILL. Some FREELY CHOOSE to repent and believe, others FREELY CHOOSE to deny Him and CHOOSE to do their own will.
And YES, the Holy Ghost is indeed the One Who is graciously calling, we are the responders. This sort of interaction is everywhere in the Bible from cover to cover. Undeniably.

[Mat 21:31 KJV]
Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

[Mat 21:32 KJV]
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

***********************************************************
[Jhn 8:44 KJV]
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own (will): for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And therein is problem. All the ungodly in the world take after their spiritual father; for all they want to do is their own will, just as the devil did his. Why do you think God must give his elect new hearts?

 

[Magenta]

Praise the Lord

 

[Magenta]

And therein is problem. All the ungodly in the world take after their spiritual father; for all they want
to do is their own will, just as the devil did his. Why do you think God must give his elect new hearts?

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
The free willer asserts that the wicked heart of the natural man is capable of believing in Him Whom he hates.

 

[Magenta]

Righteousness Of Christ ~ “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” You were dead in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. The Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it. If Christ is in you, your spirit is alive because of righteousness. We put on the righteousness of Christ.