Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

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TheLearner

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There it was said that the parting of soul and body was left, though its connection with sin was removed, for this reason, that if the immortality of the body followed immediately upon the sacrament of regeneration, faith itself would be thereby enervated. For faith is then only faith when it waits in hope for what is not yet seen in substance.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/120113.htm
 

TheLearner

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God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) and not a Man (Numbers 23:19).
Numbers 23:19
Easy-to-Read Version
19 God is not a man;
he will not lie.
God is not a human being;
his decisions will not change.
If he says he will do something,
then he will do it.
If he makes a promise,
then he will do what he promised.
 

justbyfaith

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John 1:1 says, "God" (logos en o theos) was "with" the "God" (ton theon). That's two individuals, two persons, two completely distinct Beings, who are by their very nature, eternal and uncreated Deity.

God (Son) was with the God (Father), see vss 14,17-18 even from eternity (In the beginning).

Go back to Genesis 1.

God said - the Father speaking to the Son.

God made - the Son making all things according to the Father's will.

God saw - the Holy Ghost as eternal witness, watching the Father and the Son and also moving at their will, which is why we have Genesis and John.

Three individual Persons, three individual Beings, working together as perfect harmonious family JEHOVAH. The eternal heavenly Trio (not trinity).
We do well to believe in one God (James 2:19).
 
Feb 17, 2022
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First Council of Nicaea
The Council of Nicaea is the origin of the Trinity Doctrine. This Council got together in 325 A.D. to determine the divinity of Jesus Christ and making him the God of the Universe. This teaching has been a source of confusion for the Church for many centuries. However, the Bible is very clear and does not support this doctrine. How? First, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. In John 14:28 Jesus clearly states, "the Father is greater than I am". The Bible clearly states that when he returned to Heaven he will sit at the "right" hand of the Father, Psalms 110:1. It was even clearer that his Father was YHWH in that on several occasions he prayed and cried for help to his Father while on the death stake and in the garden, Mathew 27:46&43, John 11:41. Lastly, when Jesus/Yeshua has fully accomplished his job he turns all things back over to God and God becomes all things again to all people like in the Garden of Eden. (1 Corinthians 15:24) Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden could communicate and interface directly with God without an intermediator. Jesus has a powerful role in the Kingdom and he rules for 1000 years before all things are renewed on Earth. The Holy Spirit (HS) (God force not a person) is the helper that teaches and does anything God wants it to do because it is his power. Pray for HS to enlighten you. 1 Corinthians 12:8
 
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I will attempt to explain the Trinity with the following things in mind.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)


Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (John 4:24, Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6, Ephesians 4:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

With this in mind, I encourage the reader to interpret 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 and Ephesians 4:4-6.

That being said, there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh.

The Son is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) dwelling in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 john 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 7:39); after having lived a human life in the Person of the Son (see Luke 23:46); released to the Father in eternity from the human body of the Son; and who also descends into time in order to produce holy scripture (1 Peter 1:11) and to work within the church in order to win souls to Jesus Christ.

The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY.

So, when Jesus releases His Spirit (see John 14:7-11) back into eternity, there is now one God existing beside Himself in eternity; as there are two distinct Persons in the Father and the Holy Ghost who are infinite in nature.

The Son also being infinite in nature in His Deity; however in His humanity, which has received a glorified human body likened unto the angels (Matthew 22:30), He is of a finite nature and as He said, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28); while as concerning His Deity He is equal to the Father (John 5:18).

For I contend that the Son is the Son in the reality that there is a hypostatic union of the two natures of humanity and Deity.

I also contend that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); but that He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) in the Person of the Holy Ghost.
What absolute confusion when it doesn't have to be this way. God is Jehovah, Jesus or Yeshua is the Son or Michael the Arcangel and the holy spirit is God/Jehovah's active force or power that he allows whom he chooses to access it. Why all the confusion.
 
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[QUOTE="justbyfaith, post: 4777789, member: 310696"We do well to believe in one God (James 2:19).[/QUOTE]
Almost, the holy spirit is not a person though it is personified like Wisdom (Proverbs 1:20) in the Bible. Wisdom is not a person any more than Holy Spirit is a person. The spirit is God's active force or power that he gives to whom he chooses to accomplish his will and purpose.
 

justbyfaith

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What absolute confusion when it doesn't have to be this way. God is Jehovah, Jesus or Yeshua is the Son or Michael the Arcangel and the holy spirit is God/Jehovah's active force or power that he allows whom he chooses to access it. Why all the confusion.
You are purporting Jehovah's Witness doctrine.

I would suggest to you that you google "Watchtower false prophecies" and consider Deuteronomy 18:22...

It is a false prophet that changed John 1:1 and many other verses so that they do not teach the Deity of Christ; when they do teach the Deity of Christ in the actual Bible.
 

justbyfaith

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God is the Father and Jesus is the incarnation of God (He is truly God); that is the simplest way to explain it.
 
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God is the Father and Jesus is the incarnation of God (He is truly God); that is the simplest way to explain it.
It is the heretical way to say it.

John 5:43: "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

John 14:26: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Three distinct Persons/Beings.
 

CS1

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First Council of Nicaea
The Council of Nicaea is the origin of the Trinity Doctrine. This Council got together in 325 A.D. to determine the divinity of Jesus Christ and making him the God of the Universe. This teaching has been a source of confusion for the Church for many centuries. However, the Bible is very clear and does not support this doctrine. How? First, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. In John 14:28 Jesus clearly states, "the Father is greater than I am". The Bible clearly states that when he returned to Heaven he will sit at the "right" hand of the Father, Psalms 110:1. It was even clearer that his Father was YHWH in that on several occasions he prayed and cried for help to his Father while on the death stake and in the garden, Mathew 27:46&43, John 11:41. Lastly, when Jesus/Yeshua has fully accomplished his job he turns all things back over to God and God becomes all things again to all people like in the Garden of Eden. (1 Corinthians 15:24) Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden could communicate and interface directly with God without an intermediator. Jesus has a powerful role in the Kingdom and he rules for 1000 years before all things are renewed on Earth. The Holy Spirit (HS) (God force not a person) is the helper that teaches and does anything God wants it to do because it is his power. Pray for HS to enlighten you. 1 Corinthians 12:8

your understanding is not correct. The Council of Nicaea was formed to combat 1. Gnosticism 2. defend the literal death burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul had to battle this, Peter had to, John was the last one, then Gnosticism went away for a period but came back very strong as we see the gnostic gospels came to be 100 years after the death of John the last Apostle. Polycarp talks about this.

The Eternal Godhead is well seen in the word of God the concept of the Trinity is well seen in the word of God. Those who try to reduce the Lord Jesus Christ from the rightful place GOD had to raise HIm to is fighting God not man's understanding.

For God has given HIm a name above all others:

Phil 2:9-11

"9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
 

justbyfaith

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It is the heretical way to say it.
Nope.

Three distinct Persons/Beings.
Three distinct Persons...ONE being.

Try quoting the whole verse in context.
Okay...

1Co 8:5, For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Mat 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk 10:21, In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

2Co 6:17, Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Mal 2:10, Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If these verses tell us anything they tell us that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18). And that there is one Father (Malachi 2:10).

Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).

And, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).

I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord.

Now, in light of Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18; and Ephesians 4:5, can you say that Jesus is the Lord?

(I await your answer)...

If you cannot, then you do not have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv))...

And therefore do not belong to Christ (Romans 8:9).
 

TheLearner

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JEHOVAH Elohiym (family JEHOVAH) is one family, over all Creation. That family is always in harmony, never at disagreement. This family is contrasted to all the false 'gods' that exist.
Elohim (38 Occurrences)
Genesis 2:4 These are the histories of the heavens and the earth, when they were created, in the day that Jehovah Elohim made earth and heavens, (DBY)

Genesis 2:5 and every shrub of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew; for Jehovah Elohim had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground. (DBY)

Genesis 2:7 And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul. (DBY)

Genesis 2:8 And Jehovah Elohim planted a garden in Eden eastward, and there put Man whom he had formed. (DBY)

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; and the tree of life, in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (DBY)

Genesis 2:15 And Jehovah Elohim took Man, and put him into the garden of Eden, to till it and to guard it. (DBY)

Genesis 2:16 And Jehovah Elohim commanded Man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou shalt freely eat; (DBY)

Genesis 2:18 And Jehovah Elohim said, It is not good that Man should be alone; I will make him a helpmate, his like. (DBY)

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought them to Man, to see what he would call them; and whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name. (DBY)

Genesis 2:21 And Jehovah Elohim caused a deep sleep to fall upon Man; and he slept. And he took one of his ribs and closed up flesh in its stead. (DBY)

Genesis 2:22 And Jehovah Elohim built the rib that he had taken from Man into a woman; and brought her to Man. (DBY)

Genesis 3:1 And the serpent was more crafty than any animal of the field which Jehovah Elohim had made. And it said to the woman, Is it even so, that God has said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (DBY)

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of Jehovah Elohim, walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And Man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Jehovah Elohim, in the midst of the trees of the garden. (DBY)

Genesis 3:9 And Jehovah Elohim called to Man, and said to him, Where art thou? (DBY)

Genesis 3:13 And Jehovah Elohim said to the woman, What is this thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent deceived me, and I ate. (DBY)

Genesis 3:14 And Jehovah Elohim said to the serpent, Because thou hast done this, be thou cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field. On thy belly shalt thou go, and eat dust all the days of thy life. (DBY)

Genesis 3:21 And Jehovah Elohim made Adam and his wife coats of skin, and clothed them. (DBY)

Genesis 3:22 And Jehovah Elohim said, Behold, Man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ...! (DBY)

Genesis 3:23 Therefore Jehovah Elohim sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. (DBY)

Exodus 9:30 But as to thee and thy bondmen, I know that ye do not yet fear Jehovah Elohim. (DBY)

2 Samuel 7:22 Wherefore thou art great, Jehovah Elohim; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears. (DBY)

2 Samuel 7:25 And now, Jehovah Elohim, the word that thou hast spoken concerning thy servant and concerning his house, fulfil it for ever, and do as thou hast said. (DBY)

1 Chronicles 17:16 And king David went in and sat before Jehovah, and said, Who am I, Jehovah Elohim, and what is my house, that thou hast brought me hitherto? (DBY)

1 Chronicles 17:17 And this hath been a small thing in thy sight, O God; and thou hast spoken of thy servant's house for a great while to come, and hast regarded me according to the rank of a man of high degree, Jehovah Elohim. (DBY)

1 Chronicles 22:1 And David said, This is the house of Jehovah Elohim, and this is the altar of burnt-offering for Israel. (DBY)

1 Chronicles 22:19 Now set your heart and your soul to seek Jehovah your God; and arise and build the sanctuary of Jehovah Elohim, to bring the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, and the vessels of the sanctuary of God into the house that is to be built unto the name of Jehovah. (DBY)

1 Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and courageous, and do it; fear not nor be dismayed: for Jehovah Elohim, my God, will be with thee; he will not leave thee, neither forsake thee, until all the work for the service of the house of Jehovah is finished. (DBY)

1 Chronicles 29:1 And king David said to all the congregation, Solomon my son, the one whom God has chosen, is young and tender, and the work is great; for this palace is not to be for man, but for Jehovah Elohim. (DBY)

2 Chronicles 1:9 Now, Jehovah Elohim, let thy word unto David my father be firm; for thou hast made me king over a people numerous as the dust of the earth. (DBY)

2 Chronicles 6:41 And now, arise, Jehovah Elohim, into thy resting-place, thou and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, Jehovah Elohim, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in thy goodness. (DBY)

2 Chronicles 6:42 Jehovah Elohim, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember mercies to David thy servant. (DBY)

2 Chronicles 26:18 and they withstood Uzziah the king, and said to him, It is not for thee, Uzziah, to burn incense to Jehovah, but for the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense. Go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast transgressed; neither shall it be for thine honour from Jehovah Elohim. (DBY)

Nehemiah 9:7 Thou art the Same, Jehovah Elohim, who didst choose Abram and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham; (DBY)

Psalms 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts in Man, and even for the rebellious, for the dwelling there of Jah Elohim. (DBY)

Psalms 72:18 Blessed be Jehovah Elohim, the God of Israel, who alone doeth wondrous things! (DBY)

Psalms 84:11 For Jehovah Elohim is a sun and shield: Jehovah will give grace and glory; no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. (DBY)

Jeremiah 10:10 But Jehovah Elohim is truth; he is the living God, and the King of eternity. At his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations cannot abide his indignation. (DBY)

Jonah 4:6 And Jehovah Elohim prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shade over his head, to deliver him from his trouble. And Jonah was exceeding glad because of the gourd. (DBY)

https://bibleapps.com/e/elohim.htm
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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First Council of Nicaea
The Council of Nicaea is the origin of the Trinity Doctrine. This Council got together in 325 A.D. to determine the divinity of Jesus Christ and making him the God of the Universe. This teaching has been a source of confusion for the Church for many centuries. However, the Bible is very clear and does not support this doctrine. How? First, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. In John 14:28 Jesus clearly states, "the Father is greater than I am". The Bible clearly states that when he returned to Heaven he will sit at the "right" hand of the Father, Psalms 110:1. It was even clearer that his Father was YHWH in that on several occasions he prayed and cried for help to his Father while on the death stake and in the garden, Mathew 27:46&43, John 11:41. Lastly, when Jesus/Yeshua has fully accomplished his job he turns all things back over to God and God becomes all things again to all people like in the Garden of Eden. (1 Corinthians 15:24) Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden could communicate and interface directly with God without an intermediator. Jesus has a powerful role in the Kingdom and he rules for 1000 years before all things are renewed on Earth. The Holy Spirit (HS) (God force not a person) is the helper that teaches and does anything God wants it to do because it is his power. Pray for HS to enlighten you. 1 Corinthians 12:8
"
Chapter 6. Preserve harmony
Since therefore I have, in the persons before mentioned, beheld the whole multitude of you in faith and love, I exhort you to study to do all things with a divine harmony, while your bishop presides in the place of God, and your presbyters in the place of the assembly of the apostles, along with your deacons, who are most dear to me, and are entrusted with the ministry of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. Do all then, imitating the same divine conduct, pay respect to one another, and let no one look upon his neighbour after the flesh, but continually love each other in Jesus Christ.

...

Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever you do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end;" https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0105.htm