Unfulfilled Promises?

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Sep 4, 2012
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#21
Well I hate to have to break it to you, but Genesis 13:15 is exactly what Paul was referring to (as well as two other verses, which leaves no doubt).

The singular spermati (σπερματι).

The promises were declared to Abraham and to his seed. He is not saying, "and to seeds (σπερμασιν)" as upon many, but as upon one, "and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου)", which is anointed. Galations 3:16​

Paul was referring to several verses in the LXX version of Genesis. Notice who GOD promised the land to.

GOD said to Abram after Lot parted from him, "Look up with your eyes and behold from the place which you are now to the north, south, east, and west, because all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου) unto the age." Genesis 13:15

And I am giving to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου) after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan to an eternal possession. And I am becoming their GOD. Genesis 17:8

Master GOD of heaven and the GOD of the land, who took me out of my father’s house and out of the land of which I was born, who spoke to me, and swore by an oath to me saying, "I will give this land to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου)"; he will send his messenger in front of you, and you will take a wife to my son from there. Genesis 24:7​
Paul was also referring in Galatians 3:16 to the promise made to both Isaac and Jacob. It has the exact same wording.

Isaac
Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed (και τω σπερματι σου), I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; Genesis 26:3​

Jacob
And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed (και τω σπερματι σου); Genesis 28:13​
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#22
Paul was also referring in Galatians 3:16 to the promise made to both Isaac and Jacob. It has the exact same wording.

Isaac
Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed (και τω σπερματι σου), I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; Genesis 26:3​

Jacob
And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed (και τω σπερματι σου); Genesis 28:13​
be-c-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-s-e: and unto thy SEED

Luke 3
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

23Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,e the son of Neri, 28the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23
Well I hate to have to break it to you, but Genesis 13:15 is exactly what Paul was referring to (as well as two other verses, which leaves no doubt).

The singular spermati (σπερματι).

The promises were declared to Abraham and to his seed. He is not saying, "and to seeds (σπερμασιν)" as upon many, but as upon one, "and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου)", which is anointed. Galations 3:16​


Paul was referring to several verses in the LXX version of Genesis. Notice who GOD promised the land to.

GOD said to Abram after Lot parted from him, "Look up with your eyes and behold from the place which you are now to the north, south, east, and west, because all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου) unto the age." Genesis 13:15

And I am giving to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου) after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan to an eternal possession. And I am becoming their GOD. Genesis 17:8

Master GOD of heaven and the GOD of the land, who took me out of my father’s house and out of the land of which I was born, who spoke to me, and swore by an oath to me saying, "I will give this land to you and to your seed (και τω σπερματι σου)"; he will send his messenger in front of you, and you will take a wife to my son from there. Genesis 24:7​
Why did you skip parts??

ch 13
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

ch17
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Answer the plurality of the words?

as for the type of noun used in those passages, i will have to wait till I get home to look it up. But the rest of the passage supports that it is plural.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#24
what unfulfilled promise(s) is God fulfilling today in the State of Israel in the Middle East?

................

please document every claim of any unfulfilled promises with scripture.

please make a special note if you are quoting passages which refer to the eternal state < that PROMISE is NOT the focus of this thread.

this thread is for documentation of any unfulfilled promises (re: ancient Israel/or the modern Israeli/Jewish State) before the eternal state.

...............
k.....unfulfilled promises involving the State of Israel in the middle East today.
scriptures?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#25
but the message to the HEBREWS was do NOT look for an enduring city here (earthly Jerusalem).
particularly since it and the OT system was about to suffer the curses.

God is not going to perform a REDUX on the old Covenant thing EG.
it's over.
the mosaic covenant is, yes. Yet it NEVER saved anyone.

the abraham however is not. God did not replace the abrahamic covenant Zone. come on sis. You know better than that!


again, God said forever. If he will not keep his promise to abraham and his descendnants. Then nothing assures he will keep his eternal covenant (eternal life) with us either..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
I am done until I get home, unless I take a break after I clean up this work area to respond.. God bless you all
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#27
Why did you skip parts??

ch 13
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

ch17
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Answer the plurality of the words?

as for the type of noun used in those passages, i will have to wait till I get home to look it up. But the rest of the passage supports that it is plural.
EG - was the Mosaic Covenant an everlasting Covenant?
or was it the Unilateral (God's) Covenant Promise to Abram and his seed that God is talking about?

Galatians 3:7
6Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a

4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7“Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”b

9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”c He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

what did God promise Abraham?

does Jesus contradict any of that? no...the remnant was and will be saved - just like God Promised.
but they are not all Israel who are of Israel.


John 5:38
37"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38"You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

Matthew 12:42
41"The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. 42"The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#29
the mosaic covenant is, yes. Yet it NEVER saved anyone.

the abraham however is not. God did not replace the abrahamic covenant Zone. come on sis. You know better than that!


again, God said forever. If he will not keep his promise to abraham and his descendnants. Then nothing assures he will keep his eternal covenant (eternal life) with us either..
but...Abraham looked for a heavenly city.
he dwelt in the land of promise as an alien and a sojouner.

would today's jews be told any different?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#30
Why did you skip parts??

ch 13
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

ch17
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Answer the plurality of the words?

as for the type of noun used in those passages, i will have to wait till I get home to look it up. But the rest of the passage supports that it is plural.
That's an altogether different promise.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
For some reason. No one responded to this. So I will just ask one more time.

Concerning Lev 26.



[SUP]40 [/SUP]‘If they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their forefathers, in their unfaithfulness which they committed against Me, and also in their acting with hostility against Me— [SUP]41 [/SUP]I also was acting with hostility against them, to bring them into the land of their enemies—or if their uncircumcised heart becomes humbled so that they then make amends for their iniquity, [SUP]42 [/SUP]then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land.

what covenant?

What land?

[SUP]43 [/SUP]For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, [SUP][o][/SUP]because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them,

Who is it that God promised would NEVER be destroyed, even when in the land of her enemies because of her sin?

Does this concern the eternal heavenly jerusalem? or the physical land of canaan origionally given to abraham and ALL of his descendants through Isaac and Jacob?

Is this still in effect? If not. Why not?

 
Sep 4, 2012
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#33
well yes, Which is what I have been saying all along.

But that promise was given to his seed.
The unconditional land promise was given to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their seed (singular), i.e., Christ.

The other promise was that their seed (plural) would be as the stars and sand of the seashore, and that he would establish his covenant with them.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
The unconditional land promise was given to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their seed (singular), i.e., Christ.

The other promise was that their seed (plural) would be as the stars and sand of the seashore, and that he would establish his covenant with them.
Negative.

If this is true. Lev 26 has absolutely no value. And when God took them from egypt. and took them to the land promised the fathers, Again it would mean nothing. Because it was not given to them.

He says seed (singular) because he is talking about one seed. Not through Ishmael or any of his others sons. But through the one seed.

Again he reiterated this through Isaac and Jacob the same thing.

Second, In the hebrew. the singular word translated seed or descendants. means seed (as in you throw your seed in the field to plant for a harves. The tree, which produces seed (singular) An offspring, a descendant, A family.

The word is always plural (even in gen 1: 29. When God speaks of the seed

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

The New King James Version. (1982). (Ge 1:29). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Are you going to tell me the singular noun translated seed here means the tree only produces on seed??
 
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Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
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#35
what unfulfilled promise(s) is God fulfilling today in the State of Israel in the Middle East?

................

please document every claim of any unfulfilled promises with scripture.

please make a special note if you are quoting passages which refer to the eternal state < that PROMISE is NOT the focus of this thread.

this thread is for documentation of any unfulfilled promises (re: ancient Israel/or the modern Israeli/Jewish State) before the eternal state.

...............
Well, that some should be envious?

New American Standard Bible
Roman 11:11
I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
Negative.

If this is true. Lev 26 has absolutely no value. And when God took them from egypt. and took them to the land promised the fathers, Again it would mean nothing. Because it was not given to them.

He says seed (singular) because he is talking about one seed. Not through Ishmael or any of his others sons. But through the one seed.

Again he reiterated this through Isaac and Jacob the same thing.

Second, In the hebrew. the singular word translated seed or descendants. means seed (as in you throw your seed in the field to plant for a harves. The tree, which produces seed (singular) An offspring, a descendant, A family.

The word is always plural (even in gen 1: 29. When God speaks of the seed

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

The New King James Version. (1982). (Ge 1:29). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Are you going to tell me the singular noun translated seed here means the tree only produces on seed??
I accidently said plural above, I meant singular
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#37
Negative.

If this is true. Lev 26 has absolutely no value. And when God took them from egypt. and took them to the land promised the fathers, Again it would mean nothing. Because it was not given to them.

He says seed (singular) because he is talking about one seed. Not through Ishmael or any of his others sons. But through the one seed.

Again he reiterated this through Isaac and Jacob the same thing.

Second, In the hebrew. the singular word translated seed or descendants. means seed (as in you throw your seed in the field to plant for a harves. The tree, which produces seed (singular) An offspring, a descendant, A family.

The word is always plural (even in gen 1: 29. When God speaks of the seed

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

The New King James Version. (1982). (Ge 1:29). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Are you going to tell me the singular noun translated seed here means the tree only produces on seed??
Your problem is with Paul, not me. You are in direct contradiction to what he clearly said.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
Your problem is with Paul, not me. You are in direct contradiction to what he clearly said.
No, Your problem is with the OT. Paul is talking about the eternal heavenly promise. Not the physical land given to Israel. Which NEVER had as thing to do with salvation.

Again. Why is no one responding to lev 26? Is lev 26 not talking about this same promise?

Again, If Paul is talking about lev 26 in gal. We have severe problems.

And your problem is also context. Paul explains what he is talking about. which part of the covenant earlier in the chapter.

7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The New King James Version. (1982). (Ga 3:7–9). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

The context is law vs grace, the covenant (seed) is Christ. In Christ shall all the nations of the world be blessed.

Has absolutely NOTHING to do with land!
 
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Sep 4, 2012
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#39
He says seed (singular) because he is talking about one seed. Not through Ishmael or any of his others sons. But through the one seed.

Again he reiterated this through Isaac and Jacob the same thing.
Exactly. At any point in time only one person (the seed) possessed the promises. Conditions were placed on inhabiting the land after Jacob (until Christ). The seed (singular) possessed the promises, and all Israel received their blessings through him. That is why we find Israel following Ephraim, the seed at that time who had the promises, rather than Judah.

And all Israel saw that the king did not hearken to them: and the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither have we any inheritance in the son of Jessæ. Depart, O Israel, to thy tents: now feed thine own house, David. So Israel departed to his tents. ​ 1 Kings 12:16​

Joshua (Ephraim) was the seed (singular) who inherited and possessed the land, not Israel. They received their inheritance through him (picture of Christ if you will see it).

And Joshua took all the land, as the Lord commanded Moses; and Joshua gave them for an inheritance to Israel by division according to their tribes; and the land ceased from war. Joshua 11:23​
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
Exactly. At any point in time only one person (the seed) possessed the promises. Conditions were placed on inhabiting the land after Jacob (until Christ). The seed (singular) possessed the promises, and all Israel received their blessings through him. That is why we find Israel following Ephraim, the seed at that time who had the promises, rather than Judah.

And all Israel saw that the king did not hearken to them: and the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither have we any inheritance in the son of Jessæ. Depart, O Israel, to thy tents: now feed thine own house, David. So Israel departed to his tents. ​ 1 Kings 12:16​


Joshua (Ephraim) was the seed (singular) who inherited and possessed the land, not Israel. They received their inheritance through him (picture of Christ if you will see it).

And Joshua took all the land, as the Lord commanded Moses; and Joshua gave them for an inheritance to Israel by division according to their tribes; and the land ceased from war. Joshua 11:23

lol. The passage you posted contradicts what you said.

And now why are you changing. First it was just Issac Jacob and Christ, Now it is Joshua also??

Seed, interpreted. Can mean family.

My famil (offspring) is plural. But when I speak of them, I use a singular noun (family)

Your still ignoring Lev 26