UNSAVED/UNSURE

[Melach]

To answer your question, we are supposed to shun sin but we are required to be good to others. Separating ourselves from others is an indicator of pride rather than godliness. Some of these people are family members; we can not just pass judgement and say we have to separate from them.

didnt you read the verses that he posted lolz? you are saying opposite of what st.paul said there. no pride involved there.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

THE UNSAVED/THE UNSURE
PREFACE:

We all know that we are to love our enemies, and show Christian kindness to all peoples.
Matthew, Chapter 5:
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Galatians, Chapter 6:
9)And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

However, this does not require us to marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure.
HYPOTIISIS:

The unsaved and the unsure are both lost with regards to salvation, for neither has repented, and accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as Lord and Savior.

DISCUSSION:

The unsaved. Scripture speaks directly about how we should/should not enteract with the unsaved
.
2 Corinthians, Chapter 6:
14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 5:
9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Ephesians, Chapter 5:
5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7) Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8) For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9) (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;
10) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13) But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14) Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15) See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Given that this is how Scripture tells us to think/act regarding the unsaved, should we act any differently with those who are "unsure?" (IMO) The unsaved are those who make no pretense about being saved, believing in Jesus Christ, or, even believing in God Himself. The unsure appear to me to be a group of peoples who might believe in God, might believe in Jesus, and might be seeking to find Him/themselves. I suspect agnostics would fit nicely in this category.
However, in my opinion only possibly, these peoples are also lost with regards to salvation, for they do not fully believe that Jesus is Christ and Lord, that God is the Almighty Father and Creator of all, and have not fully surrendered their lives to Him.

While it is encouraging that they are at least asking/questioning, and may be peoples with a good heart (but how can a heart without Christ be good?), that is not enough to assure them of eternal life. Thus, they too are lost.

Those of us who are saved, know we are! Like the old Hymn says: "Blessed assurance......"

1 John, Chapter 5:
1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

QUESTIONS:

1) Do you believe it is possible for someone to be saved and not know it? Personally, I do not, for the reasons stated in the above Scriptures.

2) Do we honor God, and are we being obedient to Him when we marry, abide, and/or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure?

I fully believe we are to testify/witness to them. As Christ stated for us to do in the Gospel of Matthew, and I believe it would be ok to have a meal with them, if the purpose of that meal is to testify/witness to them of Jesus Christ. However, I do not believe we honor God, or are being obedient to His Word when we marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure. (this is not a question of salvation for us) I also believe that when Christians do this, that is the major reasons their marriages/relationships fail and so much sorrow is experienced.

I, myself, have been guilty of this, and know full well the sorrow and pain a failed relationship can cause when one is unequally yolked with an unbeliever. I also know (from experience) that when one is witnessing to the unsaved/unsure, there comes a time when any conversation becomes useless, and will do more harm than good. The time comes when we need to "come out from them," or to "have no fellowship with them, but reprove them" as Scripture states. This is applicable in the "real world" just as much as it is here in the "cyber world."

2 Timothy, Chapter 2:
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

These are all good scriptures to teach us how our walk should be as we sojourn here in this world. Some of your quoted scriptures are teaching church discipline. We must also remember that when we read scriptures that are referring to the wicked, some of those scriptures are talking about born again eternally saved people who have lost their way. Paul tells us in Gal 6:1 when we are trying to restore a brother who is overtaken in a fault to consider ourselves lest we are also tempted.

 

[mailmandan]

Are humans saved because they say and/or think they are, or is Jesus the judge of who is saved and who is not?

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

THE UNSAVED/THE UNSURE
PREFACE:

We all know that we are to love our enemies, and show Christian kindness to all peoples.
Matthew, Chapter 5:
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Galatians, Chapter 6:
9)And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

However, this does not require us to marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure.
HYPOTIISIS:

The unsaved and the unsure are both lost with regards to salvation, for neither has repented, and accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as Lord and Savior.

DISCUSSION:

The unsaved. Scripture speaks directly about how we should/should not enteract with the unsaved
.
2 Corinthians, Chapter 6:
14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 5:
9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Ephesians, Chapter 5:
5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7) Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8) For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9) (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;
10) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13) But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14) Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15) See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Given that this is how Scripture tells us to think/act regarding the unsaved, should we act any differently with those who are "unsure?" (IMO) The unsaved are those who make no pretense about being saved, believing in Jesus Christ, or, even believing in God Himself. The unsure appear to me to be a group of peoples who might believe in God, might believe in Jesus, and might be seeking to find Him/themselves. I suspect agnostics would fit nicely in this category.
However, in my opinion only possibly, these peoples are also lost with regards to salvation, for they do not fully believe that Jesus is Christ and Lord, that God is the Almighty Father and Creator of all, and have not fully surrendered their lives to Him.

While it is encouraging that they are at least asking/questioning, and may be peoples with a good heart (but how can a heart without Christ be good?), that is not enough to assure them of eternal life. Thus, they too are lost.

Those of us who are saved, know we are! Like the old Hymn says: "Blessed assurance......"

1 John, Chapter 5:
1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

QUESTIONS:

1) Do you believe it is possible for someone to be saved and not know it? Personally, I do not, for the reasons stated in the above Scriptures.

2) Do we honor God, and are we being obedient to Him when we marry, abide, and/or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure?

1 Corinthians, Chapter 5:
9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
This is the balance, we can't leave the world so we are going to have to deal with the lost, which is also how we minister to them, yet at the same time don't be yoked with them, married, or other wise bound to them in business or how ever that may look. Jesus was accused of hanging out with sinners, but he lead them out of their sin not joined in sin with them.

I think you assessment of the unsure is categorically wrong. While you may be right about some it's certainly not all. What I have found in talking to people is that most people who are unsure are victims of revivalist teachings, and decision theology which leaves so many wondering if they did the stuff and things correctly. If they said the sinner prayer correctly, if a minister had to be there, or if just anyone can lead them in the sinners prayer, of they should confess their sins to a preacher, if they have really accepted Jesus into their hearts, they have been confounded by the quibbles of foolish men. So I help them settle it, by asking two questions. Do they believe that Jesus is the son of God come in the flesh, laid his life down as a sacrifice and atonement for all sin, was resurrected and ascended to the father? If they say yes, I then ask them if they are baptized. If they say yes to both I tell them good they are saved, confess their sins, repent of what ever sinful life style they are in and take the Lord's supper in a church with other believers.
If they say no to the first well they are not a Christian and are not saved.
If they say no to the second, I say confess and repent; now let's get you baptized with out hesitation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Are humans saved because they say and/or think they are, or is Jesus the judge of who is saved and who is not?

You shall know them by their fruits, whether they have the fruits of the Spirit, or not. Sometimes it can be deceiving because the scriptures tell us that Satan can appear as an angel of light. If a person is sincere in believing and worshiping God, then I feel that they can be confident that they are eternally saved.

 

[Nat2019]

Hi Noose this scripture tells us to not yoke with unbelievers and to come out and be separate.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 New International Version (NIV)
Warning Against Idolatry
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[a]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
“I will live with them
and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they will be my people.”[b]
17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”[c]
18 And,
“I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”[d]

 

[Nat2019]

To answer your question, we are supposed to shun sin but we are required to be good to others. Separating ourselves from others is an indicator of pride rather than godliness. Some of these people are family members; we can not just pass judgement and say we have to separate from them.

Hi Noose separating from the ungodly is actually biblical because the bible says dont yoke with the unbelievers. We cannot avoid everyone in the world in our jobs, our neighbors etc. But close friendship or relationships are prohibited by the bible. This isn't because we are judging them it's because the ungodly can lead us away from God and be an influence on our spiritual walk with Jesus. Many unbelievers dont like to hear about God and if God is a big part of your conversation, they wont be interested. We can relate on a human level to others with common interests such as art, writing, animals etc. But we cannot have a close friendship with the world because we will have to change our values to be accepted.

 

[Nat2019]

For the first question, I believe yes because there are plenty of Christians who doubt their own salvation. They have believed on Jesus and received him but even so, some of them still feel unsure of their own salvation.

For the second question I also would say yes, but it also depends on what you are doing. For example, I see nothing wrong with hanging out with people who are not Christians and enjoying their company. However, if for example, you are engaging in something which is clearly wrong and/or illegal activities, then no that is not right. I do not believe it is wrong to marry someone who does not believe. However, when a believer in Christ marries someone who doesn't believe in Christ, there is potential for a lot of conflict in that area especially if both are prone to debate.

What happened to Solomon when he married ungodly wives. Please read what happened?

He actually turned away from God and started worshipping other Gods with his Pagan wives. So how can you say it's not wrong to marry an unbeliever. Wouldn't you want to share your life with someone who also loves God? Because this person that is an unbeliever can start to persecute you or he/she will try and turn your mind away from God.

 

[CherieR]

What happened to Solomon when he married ungodly wives. Please read what happened?

He actually turned away from God and started worshipping other Gods with his Pagan wives. So how can you say it's not wrong to marry an unbeliever. Wouldn't you want to share your life with someone who also loves God? Because this person that is an unbeliever can start to persecute you or he/she will try and turn your mind away from God.

Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.(1 Kings 11:3). This is a recipe for drama and trouble to be married to so many.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14( NKJV ) it says this:

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy."

 

[CherieR]

@p_rehbein Jesus was called a friend of tax collectors and sinners.( Luke 7:34)

 

[Nat2019]

Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.(1 Kings 11:3). This is a recipe for drama and trouble to be married to so many.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14( NKJV ) it says this:

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy."

Please dont be deceived into marrying an unbeliever. I have seen my parents marriage. I wouldn't go down that road if I was you. 😱. This scripture is for those already married. It's not wise to go and marry an unbeliever and expect them to be a Christian, because they might not want too. This happened with my ex friends sister who married an unbeliever and he doesnt want anything to do with God.

Why would you want to marry an unbeliever, please explain?

 

[CherieR]

Please dont be deceived into marrying an unbeliever. I have seen my parents marriage. I wouldn't go down that road if I was you. 😱. This scripture is for those already married. It's not wise to go and marry an unbeliever and expect them to be a Christian, because they might not want too. This happened with my ex friends sister who married an unbeliever and he doesnt want anything to do with God.

Why would you want to marry an unbeliever, please explain?

I am not even dating right now. I would want to marry someone who shares my faith. But I don't believe it is sin to marry a nonChristian either.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@p_rehbein Jesus was called a friend of tax collectors and sinners.( Luke 7:34)

Amen, because he hung out with those who needed saved. How else can we give them the gospel?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.(1 Kings 11:3). This is a recipe for drama and trouble to be married to so many.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14( NKJV ) it says this:

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy."

Could this be talking about a spouse who got saved while they were married?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not even dating right now. I would want to marry someone who shares my faith. But I don't believe it is sin to marry a nonChristian either.

Would it be wise? Lol

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are humans saved because they say and/or think they are, or is Jesus the judge of who is saved and who is not?

What does the Bible say? That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:9,10)

As to this OP, it appears that what is being presented are two things (1) reaching out to the lost and (2) maintaining separation from sin and evil. There is no reason to see any conflict in this, since no one should participate in the ways of the wicked in order to reach them. As to marrying unbelievers, Christians are forbidden from doing so, since there is no fellowship between Light and Darkness.

 

[CherieR]

Would it be wise? Lol

Please look back at my first post on this thread.

 

[CherieR]

Could this be talking about a spouse who got saved while they were married?

Possibly. I have heard people use
2 Corinthians 6:14 to say you should not date or marry a nonChristian or that it is wrong to marry a nonChristian. I don't agree with this interpretation of this verse.

 

[Noose]

Hi Noose separating from the ungodly is actually biblical because the bible says dont yoke with the unbelievers. We cannot avoid everyone in the world in our jobs, our neighbors etc. But close friendship or relationships are prohibited by the bible. This isn't because we are judging them it's because the ungodly can lead us away from God and be an influence on our spiritual walk with Jesus. Many unbelievers dont like to hear about God and if God is a big part of your conversation, they wont be interested. We can relate on a human level to others with common interests such as art, writing, animals etc. But we cannot have a close friendship with the world because we will have to change our values to be accepted.

I don't think it means separating oneself from other people but not getting involved in what they believe or do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Possibly. I have heard people use
2 Corinthians 6:14 to say you should not date or marry a nonChristian or that it is wrong to marry a nonChristian. I don't agree with this interpretation of this verse.

I believe that passage speaks of any kind of partnership, be it marriage, work partnership (where both parties own equally) or any thing, as it would cause problems.

but like above, if we are already in a relationship when we get saved, we are not told to leave that relationship,