Until Christ be formed in you

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#1
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
(Gal 4:19)


meaning?

in context...

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
(Gal 4:16-21)
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#2
Crossnote, do you think a man in WHOM CHRIST IS FORMED can still sin? I mean CHRIST! the HOLY SON OF GOD...
Do you see that Paul had Christ in him and the others did not!

Do you know that you see me as the enimy when I quote God makes people PERFECT AS HE IS PERFECT...
Why? Is it not shown to you lots of times by now? Why would you NOT BELIEVE this Jesus said....Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Do you know that if Christ is formed in you that you are as perfect as HIM? do you know why? Because He CAN ONLY BE PERFECT...
And also this....Mat 5:48... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#3
No cobus you see you cannot see because you are in the dark, it's not really your fault because you have not been enlightened. However when the light is presented to you, you reject it and see it as the dark.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#4
Do you see that Paul had Christ in him and the others did not!
The others did not? Even the Gentiles had Christ in them the hope of glory...

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (Col 1:27)

as well as the Galatians...

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
(Gal 3:1-3)

So, what does 'until Christ be formed in you' mean?
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#5
I know this Blain, I am an expert on the dark and sin, truly an expert. But I know where the light is, and in the light THERE IS NO DARK... NONE...
I am in the DARK, that is why I sin. But there is NO SIN IN THE LIGHT, and if there is, why should I move from the dark... Then the light and the dark is the same.... SINFULL.. So maybe I should take your advice and stay in the DARK and in SIN...
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#6
Crossnote the Holy Spirit WITH ME and the Holy Spirit IN ME is two VERY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS AND LIFESTYLES....
I told you many times before.... The Holy Spirit with me LEADS me before the Holy Spirit fills me and reside IN ME...

Christ is the Holy Spirit.... And Christ Jesus LEADS before HE FILLS.... To recieve the Holy Spirit as a Spirit with me to LEAD me, is not the FILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT... Read acts 8 and the Christ in Samaria... How they recieved the Holy Spirit, and Philip was with them... FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST... But HE DID NOT FALL ONE NONE OF THEM...

The Holy Ghost has not FALL ON ME YET....
 
Mar 15, 2013
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#7
I know this Blain, I am an expert on the dark and sin, truly an expert. But I know where the light is, and in the light THERE IS NO DARK... NONE...
I am in the DARK, that is why I sin. But there is NO SIN IN THE LIGHT, and if there is, why should I move from the dark... Then the light and the dark is the same.... SINFULL.. So maybe I should take your advice and stay in the DARK and in SIN...
My heart believes you have faith and that God definitely doesn't frown upon that.

Please don't be offended but, as I see it, you are yet hooked on word games. Many of us are experts in that darkness.

I shudder to have to recall and share my own past with anyone for I bear it as Paul did his past, blinded of a self-righteous zeal which often rushed me headlong into disaster.

But which part of this do you not understand: 1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#8
I know this Blain, I am an expert on the dark and sin, truly an expert. But I know where the light is, and in the light THERE IS NO DARK... NONE...
I am in the DARK, that is why I sin. But there is NO SIN IN THE LIGHT, and if there is, why should I move from the dark... Then the light and the dark is the same.... SINFULL.. So maybe I should take your advice and stay in the DARK and in SIN...
I never said my advice was to stay in the dark and sin, but to reflect upon your belief that not only can we never again sin but if we do sin we are not in the light. what do you see sin as? is it merely just a deed against god? Or is it perhaps a mountain to daily overcome? when you hike if you were to be able to fly your legs would gain no benefit. see sin as this mountain, if we were to fly over the mountain we would not have learned the lesson of constantly pushing onwards with desire to overcome. Our legs( or faith) would not really grow stronger from overcoming would it?
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#9
Sin is ANYTHING the Holy Spirit tells you to DIE OFF Blain... He is the One that convince us of sin, and He is the One that teaches us about righteousness and judgement... From sin repenting to living righteous and perfect... It is HIS JOB given to Him by God Himself... John 16:8... Blain if it were us that save ourselves it would not work... but because it is God it is PERFECT... ALL saved are holy, righteous and perfect.... ALL THE SAVED... if not perfect, they NEED or WANT it.. And god said... His is perfect, wanting NOTHING.... Imagine God gives so great that you need or want NOTHING... not even grace or forgiveness...
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#11
Earl done that MANY times, and thank God He does TALK, but not what you preach, SORRY! I get MANY messages from God, and they are ALL in His Word... I know God earl, He is the ONE that is busy with me. I was once decieved, but NO MORE.... for I learn the Truth from HIM PERSONALLY.... It is great....
Whenever you do not see me here, I am with God, Early... You say Earl may know or not. I vote NOT YET, but I see hope for you.... Earl do you think God still TALKS VERBALLY to people? Did God speak to Paul? How many times? Earl do you know? OR NOT?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#12
Whew, perhaps now the discussion can get back on track?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#13
don't hold your breathe crossnote.... :)

I believe "until Christ be formed in you" means that you receive the Holy Spirit and have diligently added to your faith: virtue, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. When you are mature and have learned to distinguish between good and evil. When you are no longer tossed by the winds of false doctrines and when you have the fruits of the Spirit by walking in love and faith, understanding but not abusing the freedom you have in the New Covenant mediated by Christ.

ok that's a run on sentence, but have to feed the kids lunch. :)

God bless.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#14
Is there something for us to consider in Paul's saying he is again in birth pains till Christ is formed in the Galatian churches?

When a child is born, it has the characteristics of its parents, or at least they are presently to develop.
As believers, we are given the characteristics of our Father and our Lord Jesus.
God does this, conforming us to the image of His Son, just as God gives us faith to believe in the first place.

Christ formed in us, as it relates here in this passage, says a few things to me...

there is NO righteousness to be obtained through keeping the Law.
it's through faith in The Promise, as it has always been, which is clearly stated in chapter 3:

Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed should come to whom the promise had been made. Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. (vs 15-29)

we are zealous for good works, all the while knowing we may never depend on them for justification.
like little ones, we rely solely on the Cross of Christ and rest in Him because God has given us faith to believe The Promise.
we trust that we will be sanctified by the Blood of the Lord, and the One Who authored our faith will complete it.
we glory in Jesus, and never, ever anything we do.

Christ formed in us totally relies on HIS righteousness. (we have none of our own :) )
We embrace that we were saved by His grace, and we stand by His grace, and nothing else.

sorry to be so disjointed...and I don't even have little ones to get lunch for! :)
looking forward to hearing your thoughts, crossnote.
-ellie
 
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piper27

Guest
#15
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
(Gal 4:19)


meaning?

in context...

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
(Gal 4:16-21)
We have to remember who Paul was talking to:


Ga 4:19: Through prayer, Paul had interceded for these Galatians when he first brought the Gospel to them. Here, he was in doubt of their relationship to Christ, since they were moving back toward trusting in the Law. Therefore, he was praying for them again as he did in the beginning.This does not mean that the Galatians had lost their salvation and that Paul was praying for them to be born again, again. That can't happen. He was simply stating that he wanted to see the Galatians turn back to Christ and develop and grow in Him again.

gal:4:20The phrase "I stand in doubt of you" means "to be at a loss, to be disturbed" , or to feel helplessness about the situation. Paul was like a parent feeling very concerned about his children going astray . (remember his greeting when he arrived in Galatia?)
Ga 4:21: Those who advocate obtaining righteousness by keeping the Law don't know what they are saying (1Ti 1:7). You can't just keep part of the Law. You have to keep every precept of the Law perfectly or else you've broken the whole thing. Paul here used the Old Testament scriptures that the legalistic Jews had perverted to prove the Gospel he had preached.

When we read these passages through God's grace, we see the heart of the exchange. Blessings!!
 
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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#16
Well crossnote I think that when christ is formed in us we obtain desires from him. Like when our hearts connect with his i believe this is when christ is formed in us. His desires become our desires. I mean honestly i cannot get over how wonderful all of Jesus' attributes are. So i take great joy in constantly asking him to make me take on his very nature. This will not make life easier that's for sure but to have such a love for all people, to see them as he does not the way we do, to be so patient and kind. It's a very hard and continuous struggle but one worth fighting for. so if christ is indeed formed in us we will eventually handle situations in life much differently, we will begin to see as he does not the way the world does, our hearts will begin to change. I could go on and on about it but i don't want to annoy anyone with my rambling LOL
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#17
I can't be dogmatic on this but it seems metaphorically Paul was seeing that the Galatians weren't even at the 'walking by faith' stage of their spiritual life but that they were still at the pre-birth stage of their walk. They started off well but reverted to another gospel and Paul was working with them to see them again walking by seeing their life solely in Christ as he stated in 2:19-20. But that's just my developing opinion...awaiting to hear more.
 
H

hattiebod

Guest
#18
Crossnote, do you think a man in WHOM CHRIST IS FORMED can still sin? I mean CHRIST! the HOLY SON OF GOD...
Do you see that Paul had Christ in him and the others did not!

Do you know that you see me as the enimy when I quote God makes people PERFECT AS HE IS PERFECT...
Why? Is it not shown to you lots of times by now? Why would you NOT BELIEVE this Jesus said....Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Do you know that if Christ is formed in you that you are as perfect as HIM? do you know why? Because He CAN ONLY BE PERFECT...
And also this....Mat 5:48... Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
I know this is pointless...as i have read posts on this subject before but i do want to respond anyway...I believe quite simply, because i do not think God makes it complex, we are forgiven our sins at the cross but we will contiue to sin. We cannot help it, we are in the flesh, human, we shall endevour not too, through the continual conviction of the Holy Spirit, through the following of the Word, in trying to be obedient....but our trying is in vain ultimately because we cannot be perfect unless we follow the whole law....no man can do that. I am deserving of being destined for hell. But as we will not be 'perfect' until we go home to be with the Lord....I am doomed? No. Grace, through Grace I am saved, not through anything I could ever do. Yes, I do hunger and thirst, I do not set out to sin, i loathe it and chastise myself when i realise i have but my thoughts are not His, I have to hold them captive...I am but filthy rags...it is only through Grace I am saved, not from being sinless....I know this is not what you believe, and I am now in the wrong according to you. Not according to Gods Word. We can toss scriptures back and forth to justify our position? but we will have to disagree. I am not a Bible scholar, and i am now not destined to hell either. I am simply saved, redeemed and forgiven at the cross. The awesome thing is, He loves me because I am not sinless, He loves me because He sent His Son to die for me. Praise Him, it is through Him alone, not through anything I have or can do, or can't do in the future. Just Grace, awesome Grace. God Bless you, life is passion for Christ, even if we cannot agree, on that we can. God Bless. <><
 
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piper27

Guest
#19
I can't be dogmatic on this but it seems metaphorically Paul was seeing that the Galatians weren't even at the 'walking by faith' stage of their spiritual life but that they were still at the pre-birth stage of their walk. They started off well but reverted to another gospel and Paul was working with them to see them again walking by seeing their life solely in Christ as he stated in 2:19-20. But that's just my developing opinion...awaiting to hear more.
I'm likely to agree with you. Perhaps (strong perhaps) the people Paul was addressing were alive when Jesus was alive. So, they knew - and followed the law. Jesus thencame during their lifetime, and the law was fullfilled.
This would be extremely confusing to anyone. It seems to me, that if we read Paul's letter, he is imploring the people to remember the work on the cross has been done; it is finished. Reminding them to not look back, in fact,
Gal 5:4
Fallen from grace" is not speaking about the doctrine of losing salvation by one's sins; rather, it is speaking of turning from the method of salvation (grace) to seeking salvation by another way.

Read Galations 3 again, with this passage in mind, if it intrests you. Let me know what you think!
 
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psychomom

Guest
#20
I can't be dogmatic on this but it seems metaphorically Paul was seeing that the Galatians weren't even at the 'walking by faith' stage of their spiritual life but that they were still at the pre-birth stage of their walk. They started off well but reverted to another gospel and Paul was working with them to see them again walking by seeing their life solely in Christ as he stated in 2:19-20. But that's just my developing opinion...awaiting to hear more.
doesn't that idea seem to resonate with the first verses of chapter 4?
speaking of there being no difference between an heir who is a child and a slave?

well...since it's one of my favorite passages...:)

Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything,
but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father.
So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world.
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
(v 1-5)

Then in v. 9 Paul indicates he's amazed that the Galatians could have been persuaded to turn back to weak and worthless elemental things desiring to be enslaved again after being known by God!
I marvel at Paul's wording in this chapter. As you mentioned, he wants to help these people, but I can't think of any other place he calls his hearers "my children". (if you can, give me a heads up? :) )

Maybe it's just that I have a child who has turned her back on the Gospel, but the way he pleads with them is positively frightened parent.