USURPING AUTHORITY

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Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#1
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#1
1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

There are many people that believe this Scripture to teach that Paul stated that in Christianity, no woman has the authority to preach or teach to men. Let me go on the record to say I don't believe this is what it means. This subject is not about the Scripture itself, but about those who believe it this way. There are some women in the forums and the chat rooms that state firmly they don't believe in women preachers or women teachers because of this Scripture, yet at the same time they boldly post statements and speak out concerning doctrine against men to the point of ridicule and mockery who believe contrary to them, regardless of the subject.
I have these questions concerning this:
1. Since the church is really the people, and not the building, and if these women truly believe this way, is it all right for them to practice what they say they don't believe?
2. Are they talking out of both sides of their mouth?
3. Should we trust their teaching, if they aren't living by what they say they believe?

What are your thoughts concerning this?
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#2
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
274
83
#2
Stephen63 said:
1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

There are many people that believe this Scripture to teach that Paul stated that in Christianity, no woman has the authority to preach or teach to men. Let me go on the record to say I don't believe this is what it means. This subject is not about the Scripture itself, but about those who believe it this way. There are some women in the forums and the chat rooms that state firmly they don't believe in women preachers or women teachers because of this Scripture, yet at the same time they boldly post statements and speak out concerning doctrine against men to the point of ridicule and mockery who believe contrary to them, regardless of the subject.
I have these questions concerning this:
1. Since the church is really the people, and not the building, and if these women truly believe this way, is it all right for them to practice what they say they don't believe?
2. Are they talking out of both sides of their mouth?
3. Should we trust their teaching, if they aren't living by what they say they believe?

What are your thoughts concerning this?
Click to expand...
I was into this discussion before here. Having basically the same argument as you. People however will say that this is the web, this site does not belong to any particular denom or church etc, so it's all free for all to discuss. There's something to that, of course. What can be said against it is that the web may easily be turned into a greyzone where just about anything would be justified since it's "only the web".
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#3
#3
Stephen, why avoid the real issue? You know this isnt a against men issue
your "issue" goes against woman also. So why bring up the men thing? Im sure
others know what your scratching at. And some of them may know you have
a female pastor. so how many hypocricies does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Or go ask her and save time
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#4
#4
To me the issue isnt about men or woman. Its about love that is both
firm and respectful. And not offensive, slanderous, and disrespectful.
And at the same time honest and truthful.

No if a person has ugly character the truth they promote will be rejected.
Its counterproductive and devilish according to James. But to some they feel
they are lukewarm if they dont call someone a heretic at least once a day.
 
C

crosspreacher

Guest
#5
#5
I am against women being a preacher or a Pastor but i don't mind if they want to share their conviction with me here on cc and i think that they have the right to do so.
But concerning the mockery to people who have not the same point of view with them, even if they are wrong, I think that is not christianity. They have no respect for people. It is a shame to see how farcical and blind they are by mockery to other people as they are not in the truth and think that they are in.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#6
#6
Theres probably not been any area of doctrine i havnt been wrong on.
And theres been wrong doctrines ive changed for other wrong doctrines.
Hitting me with a stick and laughing me to scorn ill admit didnt help things
in the process of learning scripture.

Some people dont understand how to teach. They may have the info
but no gift to teach. Teaching is a gift. Gifts come with supernatural
ability. The bible even warns us on who should teach. Teaching is not
the same as firing mortars. Its supernatural. Seldom will a teacher get
emotional, or impatient. they just put out the material, their job is done.
What the people do with the material is not their concern. Their concern
is the material and getting it on the students plate.

Some think the threads are a war zone. Kill the infidels and heretics
and have everyone walk in line. But life is messier than that. And God
doesnt need that. No inquisitions please. We are all students and if we are
not working with the Holyspirit then we must working against Him or at least
wasting our time.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#7
#7
I think one has to look at the times and do proper hermeneutics on the passage to interpret it correctly.

Many women have held position of authority in the old and new testaments. Paul mentions many of them by name who were leaders in their churches. to say God does not allow a qualified woman to teach or do anything is to not know God
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8
#8
Stephen63 said:
I have these questions concerning this:
1. Since the church is really the people, and not the building, and if these women truly believe this way, is it all right for them to practice what they say they don't believe?
2. Are they talking out of both sides of their mouth?
3. Should we trust their teaching, if they aren't living by what they say they believe?

What are your thoughts concerning this?
Click to expand...
mind if I ask who you think are doing this thing?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#9
#9
Stephen63 said:
1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

There are many people that believe this Scripture to teach that Paul stated that in Christianity, no woman has the authority to preach or teach to men. Let me go on the record to say I don't believe this is what it means. This subject is not about the Scripture itself, but about those who believe it this way. There are some women in the forums and the chat rooms that state firmly they don't believe in women preachers or women teachers because of this Scripture, yet at the same time they boldly post statements and speak out concerning doctrine against men to the point of ridicule and mockery who believe contrary to them, regardless of the subject.
I have these questions concerning this:
1. Since the church is really the people, and not the building, and if these women truly believe this way, is it all right for them to practice what they say they don't believe?
2. Are they talking out of both sides of their mouth?
3. Should we trust their teaching, if they aren't living by what they say they believe?

What are your thoughts concerning this?
Click to expand...

Ya out with it! ty:p
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
#11
Stephen63 said:
Yes, I do mind. It's not about that.
Click to expand...

then what is is about. you seem to be making accusations, I am just trying to understand.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
#12
Magic huh?:p
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#13
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#13
eternally-gratefull said:
I think one has to look at the times and do proper hermeneutics on the passage to interpret it correctly.

Many women have held position of authority in the old and new testaments. Paul mentions many of them by name who were leaders in their churches. to say God does not allow a qualified woman to teach or do anything is to not know God
Click to expand...
I second this. I would like to add that we must know that every single scripture is from God and is in truth. But we need every single scripture and not put one ahead of the other but see how they work together.

When we look at the principles God gives us, principles that can be compared to the instructions we get for how to operate things man has made, we find that God created us to operate as men and women that have different roles to play when we operates best. There are quite a few instructions about how each is to play out those roles, each instruction needs to be read.

There are also many illustrations of how to handle it when men do not take on the leadership role, for God comes first. At the time of the judges, for instance, some women stepped in with God's blessing. Paul gives illustrations of strong women and the part they played in God's Kingdom.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#15
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
Stephen63 said:
1 Timothy 2:11-14 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

There are many people that believe this Scripture to teach that Paul stated that in Christianity, no woman has the authority to preach or teach to men. Let me go on the record to say I don't believe this is what it means. This subject is not about the Scripture itself, but about those who believe it this way. There are some women in the forums and the chat rooms that state firmly they don't believe in women preachers or women teachers because of this Scripture, yet at the same time they boldly post statements and speak out concerning doctrine against men to the point of ridicule and mockery who believe contrary to them, regardless of the subject.
I have these questions concerning this:
1. Since the church is really the people, and not the building, and if these women truly believe this way, is it all right for them to practice what they say they don't believe?
2. Are they talking out of both sides of their mouth?
3. Should we trust their teaching, if they aren't living by what they say they believe?

What are your thoughts concerning this?
Click to expand...
i think men who have female pastrixes are disobeying scripture, clearly.
people who sit under a female pastor in the pulpit preaching and teaching are in rebellion. that's clear.
but the Pentecostal Movement started with women.

i also think charismatics speaking in tongues is pagan gibbering, and people who claim to be prophets speaking for God are lying.

both of which are extremely serious offenses against God.

was there something wrong in saying so?

what exactly?:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
#16
Stephen63 said:
This is not a trick thread. Look again.
Click to expand...
I did;

you said

This subject is not about the Scripture itself, but about those who believe it this way. There are some women in the forums and the chat rooms that state firmly they don't believe in women preachers or women teachers because of this Scripture, yet at the same time they boldly post statements and speak out concerning doctrine against men to the point of ridicule and mockery who believe contrary to them, regardless of the subject.

I have these questions concerning this:
1. Since the church is really the people, and not the building, and if these women truly believe this way, is it all right for them to practice what they say they don't believe?
2. Are they talking out of both sides of their mouth?
3. Should we trust their teaching, if they aren't living by what they say they believe?

What are your thoughts concerning this?

seems prety accusatory to me,, where did I get it wrong?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#17
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#17
ya.....like.....who are we talking about anyways?
will we get to know? or do we have to be good guessers?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
#18
zone said:
i think men who have female pastrixes are disobeying scripture, clearly.
people who sit under a female pastor in the pulpit preaching and teaching are in rebellion. that's clear.
Click to expand...
just to understand your thinking.

is it rebellion because a woman is holding authority over a man.

or is it because a woman is speaking

or both..



 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#19
#19
tribesman said:
I was into this discussion before here. Having basically the same argument as you. People however will say that this is the web, this site does not belong to any particular denom or church etc, so it's all free for all to discuss. There's something to that, of course. What can be said against it is that the web may easily be turned into a greyzone where just about anything would be justified since it's "only the web".
Click to expand...
Where's abiding when I need him !

I need a picture of a guy having his cake and eating it too !!!


You can't have it both ways, can ya, tribers ;)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#20
#20
GreenNnice said:
Where's abiding when I need him !

I need a picture of a guy having his cake and eating it too !!!


You can't have it both ways, can ya, tribers ;)
Click to expand...
Interpret please
 
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