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T
Vengeance belongs solely to God who will pour out His wrath on those who have wronged and not repented.
We are instructed to love all and forgive all as we have been forgiven.
I know for myself, this is one of the hardest commands to obey when I see injustice and especially when someone attacks my loved ones in any way.
We are instructed to love all and forgive all as we have been forgiven.
I know for myself, this is one of the hardest commands to obey when I see injustice and especially when someone attacks my loved ones in any way.
We are instructed to forgive others as our Father forgives us. And our Father forgives us when we ask for forgiveness and repent of our sins. The following verse says; "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head" (Romans 12:20).
"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea" (Mark 9:42).
I suspect these verses are speaking about God's vengeance against nonbelievers, not so much a true brother or sister in Christ who would know to repent of their offenses.
"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea" (Mark 9:42).
I suspect these verses are speaking about God's vengeance against nonbelievers, not so much a true brother or sister in Christ who would know to repent of their offenses.
Deuteronomy 32 "The Song of Moses"
1“Give ear, O heavens, and let me speak;
And let the earth hear the words of my mouth.
2“Let my teaching drop as the rain,
My speech distill as the dew,
As the droplets on the fresh grass
And as the showers on the herb.
3“For I proclaim the name of the Yahweh;
Ascribe greatness to our God!
4“The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are just;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.
5“They have acted corruptly toward Him,
They are not His children, because of their defect;
But are a perverse and crooked generation.
6“Do you thus repay the Yahweh,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is not He your Father who has bought you?
He has made you and established you.
7“Remember the days of old,
Consider the years of all generations.
Ask your father, and he will inform you,
Your elders, and they will tell you.
8“When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of man,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the sons of Israel.
35‘Vengeance is Mine, and retribution,
In due time their foot will slip;
For the day of their calamity is near,
And the impending things are hastening upon them.’
36“For the Yahweh will vindicate His people,
And will have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their strength is gone,
And there is none remaining, bond or free.
37“And He will say, ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38‘Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise up and help you,
Let them be your hiding place!
39‘See now that I, I am He,
And there is no strength besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal,
And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the..."
1“Give ear, O heavens, and let me speak;
And let the earth hear the words of my mouth.
2“Let my teaching drop as the rain,
My speech distill as the dew,
As the droplets on the fresh grass
And as the showers on the herb.
3“For I proclaim the name of the Yahweh;
Ascribe greatness to our God!
4“The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are just;
A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
Righteous and upright is He.
5“They have acted corruptly toward Him,
They are not His children, because of their defect;
But are a perverse and crooked generation.
6“Do you thus repay the Yahweh,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is not He your Father who has bought you?
He has made you and established you.
7“Remember the days of old,
Consider the years of all generations.
Ask your father, and he will inform you,
Your elders, and they will tell you.
8“When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of man,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the sons of Israel.
35‘Vengeance is Mine, and retribution,
In due time their foot will slip;
For the day of their calamity is near,
And the impending things are hastening upon them.’
36“For the Yahweh will vindicate His people,
And will have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their strength is gone,
And there is none remaining, bond or free.
37“And He will say, ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?
38‘Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise up and help you,
Let them be your hiding place!
39‘See now that I, I am He,
And there is no strength besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal,
And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the..."
J
Hi, Mooky.
Actually, Hizikyah's response was headed in the right direction, but he didn't take you all the way home, so to speak. IOW, Hizikyah was seeking to show you where what you cited from Romans 12:19 was originally "written" so that you might better understand the context of the same. Here, then, are Romans 12:19 and Deuteronomy 32:35-36:
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Romans 12:19)
"To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left." (Deuteronomy 32:35-36)
Whenever we see such phrases as "for it is written" or "according to the scriptures" in our Bibles, it would behoove us to go back and find out exactly where "it is written" so that we can best understand exactly what is being said or the reason behind the "proof text" which has been given to prove the author's intended point. You may have noticed that I not only cited Deuteronomy 32:35 where this actual quote was originally found, but that I also included the next verse where we read "for the LORD shall judge HIS PEOPLE". I did the same for a reason. IOW, BOTH of these verses are quoted in another place in the New Testament and by reading the context of the same and then coupling it with the context of where the verses originated, I believe that you will find the answer to your question. In the book of Hebrews, we read:
Hebrews chapter 10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Here, the author's intent was to show that if Christians "sin willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for their sins, BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION WHICH SHALL DEVOUR GOD'S ADVERSARIES". Remember, the author was addressing HEBREW CHRISTIANS or those who would have been familiar with the God of the Old Testament. As such, he deliberately provided "proof texts" from the Old Testament all throughout this epistle in order to "prove" his assertions or the doctrines which he was seeking to establish. Well, how then did the author "prove" that "the LORD shall judge HIS PEOPLE" or those who once belonged to Him? He "proved" the same by citing to his readers that which had previously been "written" in Deuteronomy 32:35-36 even as I cited the same above.
Anyhow, God's "vengeance" is not reserved solely for those who were always unbelievers, but also for those who once belonged to Him and then fell away. Scripture makes this plain throughout the Bible, yet multitudes reject it simply because they refuse to take God at His Own Word and interject their own biases into many passages of scripture such as the ones cited above.
Actually, Hizikyah's response was headed in the right direction, but he didn't take you all the way home, so to speak. IOW, Hizikyah was seeking to show you where what you cited from Romans 12:19 was originally "written" so that you might better understand the context of the same. Here, then, are Romans 12:19 and Deuteronomy 32:35-36:
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Romans 12:19)
"To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste. For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left." (Deuteronomy 32:35-36)
Whenever we see such phrases as "for it is written" or "according to the scriptures" in our Bibles, it would behoove us to go back and find out exactly where "it is written" so that we can best understand exactly what is being said or the reason behind the "proof text" which has been given to prove the author's intended point. You may have noticed that I not only cited Deuteronomy 32:35 where this actual quote was originally found, but that I also included the next verse where we read "for the LORD shall judge HIS PEOPLE". I did the same for a reason. IOW, BOTH of these verses are quoted in another place in the New Testament and by reading the context of the same and then coupling it with the context of where the verses originated, I believe that you will find the answer to your question. In the book of Hebrews, we read:
Hebrews chapter 10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Here, the author's intent was to show that if Christians "sin willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for their sins, BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION WHICH SHALL DEVOUR GOD'S ADVERSARIES". Remember, the author was addressing HEBREW CHRISTIANS or those who would have been familiar with the God of the Old Testament. As such, he deliberately provided "proof texts" from the Old Testament all throughout this epistle in order to "prove" his assertions or the doctrines which he was seeking to establish. Well, how then did the author "prove" that "the LORD shall judge HIS PEOPLE" or those who once belonged to Him? He "proved" the same by citing to his readers that which had previously been "written" in Deuteronomy 32:35-36 even as I cited the same above.
Anyhow, God's "vengeance" is not reserved solely for those who were always unbelievers, but also for those who once belonged to Him and then fell away. Scripture makes this plain throughout the Bible, yet multitudes reject it simply because they refuse to take God at His Own Word and interject their own biases into many passages of scripture such as the ones cited above.
Rom 12:17 "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men."
Rom 12:18 "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."
Rom 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
"No man" and "all men" can refer to Christians and non-Christians.
2 Tim 4:14 "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:"
Here is an example where Alexander did Paul much evil but Paul did not "recompense evil for evil" Rom 12:17, did not avenge himself but rather let God reward Alexander according to his works.
Who is this Alexander?
1 Tim 1:19,20 "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."
Could the Alexander of 2 Tim 4:14 be the same Alexander of 1 Tim 1:20 who became an apostate? Possibly so. But if not, Paul still did not recompense evil for evil with either Alexander.
Rom 12:18 "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."
Rom 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
"No man" and "all men" can refer to Christians and non-Christians.
2 Tim 4:14 "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:"
Here is an example where Alexander did Paul much evil but Paul did not "recompense evil for evil" Rom 12:17, did not avenge himself but rather let God reward Alexander according to his works.
Who is this Alexander?
1 Tim 1:19,20 "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."
Could the Alexander of 2 Tim 4:14 be the same Alexander of 1 Tim 1:20 who became an apostate? Possibly so. But if not, Paul still did not recompense evil for evil with either Alexander.
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I have seen God punish my enemies. I will not tell you as its personal and its not right to tell you what happened to those people who tried to destroy me, all I will say is that the things they accused me of doing were inflicted upon them.
I did not seek vengence though, I did not ask for it either, I was just sorry for them that they did those things to me, I left it to God and God brought down his vengeance upon them.
God also punishes anyone who prods Israel. USA has suffered horrendously by getting Israel to do things like give up land.
I did not seek vengence though, I did not ask for it either, I was just sorry for them that they did those things to me, I left it to God and God brought down his vengeance upon them.
God also punishes anyone who prods Israel. USA has suffered horrendously by getting Israel to do things like give up land.