Views/Scripture on Diseases

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cuz

Member
Mar 11, 2019
83
24
8
#21
1 Timothy 5:23 (NIV)

23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Philippians 2:27
Indeed he was ill, and almost died. But God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, to spare me sorrow upon sorrow.

We know God heals being someone who has had healing from God

but we can see place like these that show us not to trust in the flesh but wait upon the perfect flesh from above
living in the spirit pulling off the flesh enduring till he returns

one point to take from this is what flesh should we trust in
if sinning in this flesh can break the cross and bring sickness
or is it faith in what is to come the bread of life from above ?
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#23
Hi IndianGirl and others,

It is good to be cautious about sickness and disease in relationship to the demonic because the devil is the great deceiver and works under the cover of darkness, and wants us to fear the unknown.
--- We wonder about the suggestion that God is allowing this for some purpose, or perhaps for a punishment. --- And the uneasy feeling we might have of some evil spirit entering our body in some sickness.

We can’t really use examples like Job, or Paul because they were special cases. We are not as ‘good’ as Job that God would allow us to be tested that way, or are we as bad as Paul in his days as Saul. --- It is believed that Saul had ambitions of becoming a high priest as a Pharisee, and he would be careful not to mar his character by murder, so when they stoned Stephen, it said that the participants “Laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.”
--- When Saul went to Damascus and had his conversion experience, God spoke to Ananias and said to go to Paul. Ananias said, 13 “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” --- (So we are not in that category either.)

There are actually many examples in Scripture that give us understanding of diseases and healing, like Matthew 4:23 “And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people. 24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.”

Also, Jesus said to the disciples, “The works that I do shall you do also.” And it says this in Acts 5:12 “And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. 14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them. 16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.”

We can see that many of these sicknesses were 'healed' by the casting out of the evil spirits that attacked or affected the person.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,878
660
113
#24
Hi IndianGirl and others,

It is good to be cautious about sickness and disease in relationship to the demonic because the devil is the great deceiver and works under the cover of darkness, and wants us to fear the unknown.
--- We wonder about the suggestion that God is allowing this for some purpose, or perhaps for a punishment. --- And the uneasy feeling we might have of some evil spirit entering our body in some sickness.

We can’t really use examples like Job, or Paul because they were special cases. We are not as ‘good’ as Job that God would allow us to be tested that way, or are we as bad as Paul in his days as Saul. --- It is believed that Saul had ambitions of becoming a high priest as a Pharisee, and he would be careful not to mar his character by murder, so when they stoned Stephen, it said that the participants “Laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.”
--- When Saul went to Damascus and had his conversion experience, God spoke to Ananias and said to go to Paul. Ananias said, 13 “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.” --- (So we are not in that category either.)

There are actually many examples in Scripture that give us understanding of diseases and healing, like Matthew 4:23 “And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people. 24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.”

Also, Jesus said to the disciples, “The works that I do shall you do also.” And it says this in Acts 5:12 “And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. 14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, 15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them. 16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.”

We can see that many of these sicknesses were 'healed' by the casting out of the evil spirits that attacked or affected the person.
Yes, but the question is, does the ministrie which Jesus and also the Apostles did with the purpose to proof that Jesus is the promissed messajah, is for today in the same way. If so, should we then not expect the same results?
I knew this from Mission ministrie, that Jesus heals people from other religions for to show his might and they turn to Christ.
But today I have the Impression that Christians, which are already belongs to Christ searching healing from diseases. And not Less people prommise them this healing,if they have enough faith.
This I cant found taught to the Christians in the NT.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#25
Hi wolfwint,

Quote: Yes, but the question is, does the ministrie which Jesus and also the Apostles did with the purpose to proof that Jesus is the promissed messajah, is for today in the same way. If so, should we then not expect the same results?
I knew this from Mission ministrie, that Jesus heals people from other religions for to show his might and they turn to Christ.
But today I have the Impression that Christians, which are already belongs to Christ searching healing from diseases. And not Less people promise them this healing, if they have enough faith.
This I can’t found taught to the Christians in the NT.

Response: --- Yes there are many voices that speak about healing, some are genuine and some are not. This is why I say we need to be cautious and study examples from the Scriptures. --- In our Christian Churches we have been ‘educated away’ from believing the miraculous, so we don’t really expect healing or deliverance.

I know a man today who preaches a message of salvation or deliverance, and at the end he has a time for questions or meditation. The Holy Spirit will speak to him and might say, “There is someone here with a bad shoulder, who is suffering pain.” --- And someone perhaps reluctantly at having their problem made known, will acknowledge that it is him. --- The speaker then asks the people to pray with him for the man who needs healing. --- Sometimes the healing is immediate, sometimes it happens overnight or later. --- I can testify to this myself, but I don’t glorify it.

What I see in Jesus healing the people, --- it wasn’t that He wanted fame, or to be recognized as the Messiah, but that He had compassion on them as in this case in Matthew 20:29 Now as they went out of Jericho, a great multitude followed Him.
30 And behold, two blind men sitting by the road, when they heard that Jesus was passing by, cried out, saying, “Have mercy on us, O Lord, Son of David!”
31 Then the multitude warned them that they should be quiet; but they cried out all the more, saying, “Have mercy on us, O Lord, Son of David!”
32 So Jesus stood still and called them, and said, “What do you want Me to do for you?”
33 They said to Him, “Lord, that our eyes may be opened.”
34 So Jesus had compassion and touched their eyes. And immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed Him.

The other thing that is a ‘negative’ is to say that if a person has enough faith. --- Having worked in a Rescue Mission where we saw all kinds of people, we saw deliverance from diseases and addictions come from the prayers of those who have the Holy Spirit within. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that brings healing or deliverance by overpowering the enemy. --- This is still happening today.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#26
We can learn a lot from the disciples who were just like us, about how they handled things in good times and bad.

A fairly common ‘healing from disease’ was when Jesus took the three main disciples, Peter, James, and John, up the mountain and left the nine down below in Matthew 17:14 And when they (Jesus and the three disciples) had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying, 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. 16 So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? Bring him here to Me.”

--- In the same incident in Mark’s account he wrote in 9:18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. 20 Then they brought him to Jesus. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood.
22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”
23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”
24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
25 Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
Matthew 17:18 “Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was healed from that very hour.”
--- The boy didn’t have physical defects, but was occupied by spirits that controlled him. --- When they were driven out, the boy was normal.

The man said his son was epileptic (other versions say he was lunatic, or moonstruck), and when he came in sight of Jesus the spirits caused another seizure, --- ‘seizing’ him and caused a convulsion. --- Jesus commanded the deaf and dumb spirit to be cast out. --- One thing to know is that there is a principle demon or unclean spirit who is the leader, and there might be many other spirits in a person like this. --- The spirit ‘cried out’ convulsed him one more time and then came out. --- The spirits left him in a fearful state that appeared like he was dead. --- But Jesus lifted him up and, “He was healed from that very hour.” --- The healing was a driving out of the spirits that shouldn’t have been there.
--- I am not saying that ‘epileptics’ are all demon controlled, as some have medical or mental problems, so each one is different. This is why any deliverance or healing has to be according to the Lord’s leading, so we must proceed with caution, led by the Holy Spirit.
--- (So we can examine this further about the failure of the disciples.)
Blessings
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#27
To continue with the disciples,
Jesus had chosen the twelve disciples from among others and it says in Matthew 10:1 And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and (Nathaniel whose surname was) Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

5
These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food."
--- They were given the power of the Holy Spirit, to do as Jesus did, --- but some time later the nine were not able to cast out the spirits from the boy in Matthew 17.

The sending out of the twelve disciples is written also in Luke 9, and it adds this in Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. 5 But whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6 And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you. 7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. 9 And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’"
--- These seventy were also given the power of the Holy Spirit to ‘heal the sick’ which included casting out evil spirits to restore the person to health.

--- This was the first time that, first the twelve, then the seventy disciples, were sent out on their own, ‘two by two,’ and Jesus wasn’t with them. --- This gave them the experience of having the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives. --- And their response:

17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
20 Jesus said, “Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
--- This shows that the healing power given to them was power over the demons and evil spirits as well. --- So Jesus multiplied His ministry by sending out these 82 disciples to different towns to do the work of the Holy Spirit through them.
This was what happened on the Day of Pentecost when about 120 were ‘filled with’ and ‘baptized into’ the Holy Spirit, which proved God’s power was in them, and worked through them, because that day resulted in about 3000 converts.
--- So if we are ‘in Christ,’ or have the Holy Spirit, do we not have the power to cast out the evil spirits that cause sickness?
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#28
We are all familiar with these verses starting in Ephesians 6:11 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."
14 "Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints."

If we take this verse and study it we see that we are in a battle with forces of evil that we can’t see. --- 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
--- They can attack us, and we don’t see them, we only feel the effects when we get sick. --- And this is the case of the corona virus too, isn’t it?
--- This could make us feel rather helpless that this enemy is hovering over us waiting for a weakness in our armor through which to attack. --- But with sickness and disease, even the strongest Christians suffer.

If we look back we find an answer in Ephesians 1:17 “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.”
--- So, if we are seated in Christ Jesus we are ABOVE the principalities and powers that work against us, ‘the spiritual wickedness in high places.’
--- As it says in Colossians 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”
--- If we are in this position in Christ, we should be able to tap into His resources to understand and deal with the devil’s attacks through diseases, should we not?
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
579
423
63
#29
--- So if we are ‘in Christ,’ or have the Holy Spirit, do we not have the power to cast out the evil spirits that cause sickness?
--- If we are in this position in Christ, we should be able to tap into His resources to understand and deal with the devil’s attacks through diseases, should we not?
This would mean all Christians would be disease-free and would not suffer. I really do not have the answer to your questions. Theoretically, the answer is yes but there are a lot of prayerful Christians who are suffering healthwise. One explanation I got from my charistmatic friend is that while we may still have the disease, we just won't pay attention to it. Say someone is suffering with chronic pain, that person might still suffer from pain but it won't affect his life as much.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,878
660
113
#30
We are all familiar with these verses starting in Ephesians 6:11 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."
14 "Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints."

If we take this verse and study it we see that we are in a battle with forces of evil that we can’t see. --- 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
--- They can attack us, and we don’t see them, we only feel the effects when we get sick. --- And this is the case of the corona virus too, isn’t it?
--- This could make us feel rather helpless that this enemy is hovering over us waiting for a weakness in our armor through which to attack. --- But with sickness and disease, even the strongest Christians suffer.

If we look back we find an answer in Ephesians 1:17 “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.”
--- So, if we are seated in Christ Jesus we are ABOVE the principalities and powers that work against us, ‘the spiritual wickedness in high places.’
--- As it says in Colossians 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”
--- If we are in this position in Christ, we should be able to tap into His resources to understand and deal with the devil’s attacks through diseases, should we not?
We are not yet, what we are. It will revealed when Jesus comes back.(1.John 2,2)
Sickness and diseases and death are not to reduce in attacking of demons. It is a consequence of Adam and Eve sin in Garden Eden.
With this our body has to handle with till he dies.
All, who where healed through Jesus and the Apostles dies later on. (And for shure because the body got any sickness, because he is not made for eternity) Even the Apostles and their co-worker becomes sick. Paul f.e. till the end of his life.
And all healings and miracles had one Purpose: the human beeing. Wrong!
All healings and miracles had one purpose: to show Gods Power and gloryfie Him!
Today it seems me All healings and miracles should Serve one Goal. To benefit the believer. Ore with other words to benefit the creature, instead of praising the creator!
To promisse a sickfree life is a lie.
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,823
503
113
#31
What is the Biblical view on diseases? Is disease a form of punishment, maybe from God? Does God give us disease to redirect our lives? Is all disease from the devil? I have heard a variety of views on this from Christians. My charismatic friends (from Ethiopia) say disease is demonic/from the devil, and we have the power to cast out disease through faith and prayer (it will not be cast out with unbelief). My problem with this view is that through the disease, I am hosting demonic presence in my body. I do not think this is a healthy view. The blame is cast to the sick person as though he/she got the disease because he/she may be spiritually weak.
Every Believer has a sin nature that was not eliminated at salvation. This is why we get sick, get old, and die.

However, coming soon - corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. The sin nature will be eliminated forever!
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#32
Hi IndianGirl,

Your first questions were these. Quote: What is the Biblical view on diseases? Is disease a form of punishment, maybe from God? Does God give us disease to redirect our lives? Is all disease from the devil? I have heard a variety of views on this from Christians. My charismatic friends (from Ethiopia) say disease is demonic/from the devil, and we have the power to cast out disease through faith and prayer.

Response: --- All of the above are considerations and your friends who believe in healing may use the verses that say, ‘healing is in the atonement.’
Isaiah 53:4 “Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.”
--- 1 Peter 2:24 “Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you 'were' healed.”

By saying ‘by His stripes you were healed, it applies that our health and well being was paid for at the cross.
Then there is this verse where Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:29 “For he who eats and drinks (takes communion) in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [i]sleep (in death).”

So those who believe in healing claim the promise of healing and many are healed.
Those who believe that the days of miracles are past, don’t use those Scriptures, --- however, many believing Christians pray for healing, and some receive it.

Quote: Is disease a form of punishment, maybe from God? Does God give us disease to redirect our lives?

Response: --- I don’t believe He does either, but that the devil can attack us where we are weak or unprotected. --- Or we might ‘catch a cold’ from someone else who has one and we can’t really blame that on anyone, can we. --- We might say, “If I had not gone to their house, I would not have gotten this cold.” --- That is perhaps true, but these are the unknowns that make us wonder about God and healing.

I said, --- If we are in this position ‘in Christ,’ we should be able to tap into His resources to understand and deal with the devil’s attacks through diseases.

Quote from your post: This would mean all Christians would be disease-free and would not suffer. I really do not have the answer to your questions. Theoretically, the answer is yes but there are a lot of prayerful Christians who are suffering healthwise.

Response: --- To be ‘in Christ’ is the desired position, but as you say, “There are a lot of prayerful Christians who are suffering healthwise.”
We can be in right relationship with the Lord spiritually, but we are still in our weak physical bodies which are subject to disease, so we have a constant routine of ‘ailments, and medication to treat them,' do we not?

But here is a way to ‘tap into the Lord’s resources.’
James 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
--- James wrote to the Jewish Christians who were no doubt represented from the ‘twelve tribes’ in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, when some 3000 were saved, and baptized. --- The Jews, who were good at keeping records, would record them all that day, and James, who became the Pastor of the Church in Jerusalem would keep the records so that he could communicate with them. --- And he calls them, “My brethren.” --- He continues with this encouragement.

2 “My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.”
5 “If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts, is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.”

--- So we can ask the Lord about anything, and his promise is that He will answer. --- So we can ask him about sickness, and when and how we should pray for healing or deliverance.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
36
28
#33
Hi Wolfwint,

Quote: Sickness and diseases and death are not to reduce in attacking of demons. It is a consequence of Adam and Eve sin in Garden Eden. With this our body has to handle with till he dies.
All, who where healed through Jesus and the Apostles dies later on. Even the Apostles and their co-worker becomes sick.
And all healings and miracles had one Purpose: the human beeing. Wrong!
All healings and miracles had one purpose: to show Gods Power and gloryfie Him!
To promise a sickfree life is a lie. --- (Of course)

Response: --- I agree that disease and death comes with our mortal body, and of course, everyone dies of something. --- They may have been healed from something through their lives, but they die later.
You are right, healing should be to glorify God, even as Jesus said in the Scripture on this occasion where it uses the whole chapter to show the power of God.
John 9:1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
6 When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. 7 And He said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which is translated, Sent). So he went and washed, and came back seeing.
8 Therefore the neighbors and those who previously had seen that he was blind said, “Is not this he who sat and begged?”
9 Some said, “This is he.” Others said, “He is like him.”
He said, “I am he.
10 Therefore they said to him, “How were your eyes opened?”
11 He answered and said, “A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, ‘Go to the pool of Siloam and wash.’ So I went and washed, and I received sight.”

24 So they (the Pharisees) again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”
25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”
26 Then they said to him again, “What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?”
27 He answered them, “I told you already, and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?”
34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they cast him out.

Jesus said this also about the raising of Lazarus in John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, He said, “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”
--- It is up to an individual whether he believes the Lord may heal him, and if he doesn’t ask for healing he will not receive it. --- There is something called “The Serenity Prayer.”

“Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”
--- This is why I mentioned the words of James above in James 1:5 “If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.”
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
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#34
Later in the Book of James he gives this advice concerning sickness in 5:13 “Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed."

These are specific instructions. --- If anyone is suffering he can pray. --- (As we are instructed to always pray for our needs.) --- If anyone is cheerful let him sing, and glorify the Lord. Colossians 3:16 “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”

--- Is anyone sick among you, let him call for the Elders of the Church. --- It depends what kind of Church you attend, whether the Pastor and Elders will pray with you. Or you may have Christian friends who will pray for your healing.
There are two things about asking others to pray. If the person asking is genuine themselves, they are expressing faith in others to pray to God on their behalf, which is what happened all through the Gospels when people brought other to Jesus and the disciples. --- It shows that we ‘are’ to ask others for help, in approaching God for our needs.

--- The second thing is that if a person is not genuine but wants others to pray hopefully, but without expectation that God hears and answers prayer. It is like the second part of James’ prayer of faith in 1:5 “If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

--- I have been in meetings where they ‘anoint with oil in the name of the Lord.’ --- Occasionally a zealous Charismatic Christian might see a need and say, “Let me pray for you.” --- But unless he is led by the Holy Spirit, it may be an empty exercise that leaves the one prayed for bewildered, when the intended result doesn’t happen.

15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.
--- What more can we say?
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
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#35
I went through a period where I was searching/praying for a cure. This was the first time I had dealt with this sort of situation while actively participating in church, knowing lot of Christians, etc. The responses I got, while I was prayed for, was not too comforting. It was though it was up to me if I wanted to be cured (or otherwise it was due to unbelief). There was also the other aspect of the condition being something spiritual/demonic. I still have traumatic memories/negative feelings from those days.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
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#36
Hi IndianGirl,

Quote from your post:
I went through a period where I was searching/praying for a cure. This was the first time I had dealt with this sort of situation while actively participating in church, knowing lot of Christians, etc. The responses I got, while I was prayed for, was not too comforting. It was though it was up to me if I wanted to be cured (or otherwise it was due to unbelief). There was also the other aspect of the condition being something spiritual/demonic. I still have traumatic memories/negative feelings from those days.

Response: --- I am sorry for the many that are disappointed by those who they look to for help, who perhaps don’t understand, or have a lack of compassion for others. --- Often too, our Christian friends want to be helpful but they don’t know what to do, so they say something that brings the problem back on us, as you have expressed, --- “It was as though it was up to me if I wanted to be cured (or otherwise it was due to unbelief).”

As Christians we are supposed to be happy, rejoicing in our salvation and witnessing to others about the Lord. --- However, we find that a lot of Christians have problems that take their joy and leave them depressed.
--- I believe that ‘depression’ is one of the main causes of sorrow and sickness in our society, and among Christians as well. --- Think of this, if the devil can ‘oppress’ us enough to cause negative thinking, then this takes the joy of life away. --- Some Psychologist said, “You are what you think about.” --- Or ‘As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.’

The demonic forces don’t have to be inside our head to make us think negatively. When we watch TV we are subject to what the outside world gives us. --- Especially now with the anxiety generated by Covid –19, many people are living in fear, so their lives are not happy.

We have to trust the Lord to keep us in whatever situation He leads us into, as He will also lead us through it, --- so as we concentrate on Him, we should come back to positive thinking.
He said in Matthew 11:28 “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Again the Scripture says, “The joy of the Lord is our strength.”
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
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#37
I worked at a Christian Rescue Mission for years and we saw various ones affected by the demonic, but not all demonic activity is as serious as the case of the man's son who was epileptic, which I mentioned some time ago.

Matthew 12:45 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”

Let’s suppose that a person is invited to a Gospel meeting, or goes on his own, and hears a message that convicts him of sin. He may determine to follow the Lord, and he has an unclean spirit which has been occupying some space. --- If the spirit feels threatened and thinks it might be cast out and down to hell, it can leave of its own accord, to look for another body in which to dwell. --- Notice what it says of this one, “it goes through ‘dry places,’ seeking rest, and finds none.’ --- Notice ‘dry places,’ --- the spirits need a ‘water body’ in which to find rest. --- But it found none, so --- it goes back to check on the body that it had left, and found it ‘empty,’ --- It was cleaned up, but there had been no follow up on his decision or good intentions. --- So this tells it all, 45 “Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”

--- There can be a number of spirits occupying and attacking a person at the same time, or they can be silent until there is a reason to express violence or hatred, and then the spirits express themselves through the person, whether young or old.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
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#38
One more example of demonic activity that causes disease is this encounter in Mark 5:1 Then they came to the other side of the sea (of Galilee), to the country of the Gadarenes. 2 And when He (Jesus) had come out of the boat, immediately there met Him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no one could bind him, not even with chains, 4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains. And the chains had been pulled apart by him, and the shackles broken in pieces; neither could anyone tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains and in the tombs, crying out and cutting himself with stones.

--- This is a longer story so I will just tell part of it, but you can read it in Mark 5.
8 He (Jesus) said to him, “Come out of the man, unclean spirit!”
9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”
10 Also he (the unclean spirit leader) begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.
11 Now a large herd of swine was feeding there near the mountains. 12 So all the demons (here called demons, plural) begged Him, saying, “Send us to the swine, that we may enter them.” 13 And at once Jesus gave them permission. Then the unclean spirits went out and entered the swine (there were about two thousand); and the herd ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and drowned in the sea.
--- The name Legion means multitudes or armies, a Roman Legion could be up to 6000 soldiers, so many unclean spirits and demons had entered the man. Also there was a herd of about 2000 pigs that the spirits entered when they left the man, so there had to have been that many spirits. --- Jesus commanded the ‘unclean spirit,’ (singular) which would be the leader, to come out. --- After they had been detected and commanded to leave, they had do go. --- But they asked Jesus if they might enter the swine (other ‘water bodies’ in which to dwell) and not be cast out and down into hell, from which there was no return.
14 So those who fed the swine fled, and they told it in the city and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that had happened.

15 Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been ‘demon-possessed’ and had the ‘legion,’ sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.
16 And those who saw it told them how it happened to him who had been demon-possessed,
17 Then they began to plead with Him (Jesus) to depart from their region.
18 And when He got into the boat, he who had been demon-possessed begged Him that he might be with Him.
19 However, Jesus did not permit him, but said to him, “Go home to your friends, and tell them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He has had compassion on you.”
20 And he departed and began to proclaim in Decapolis all that Jesus had done for him; and all marveled.
--- Jesus said, “Go home to your friends, and tell them what great things the Lord has done for you,” So the man was normal after the spirits were cast out and Jesus left the delivered man there to tell his story to his own community, and he ‘began to proclaim in the region of Decapolis.’ --- Though they sent Jesus away, the witness of the Gospel had come to them in a miraculous way. Through a home town Evangelist.
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
316
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#39
--- Your first question was: ‘What is the Biblical view on diseases?’
Another question is: ‘What don’t we know about common respiratory diseases that may or may not be demonic?’

I copied this information from online, which is interesting because of the frequency of common allergies. --- If people knew that some allergies come from their home environment, do you think they would be interested?

Dust mites are tiny microscopic relatives of the spider and live on mattresses, bedding, upholstered furniture, carpets and curtains. These tiny creatures feed on the flakes of skin that people and pets shed daily and they thrive in warm and humid environments.

The Basic Facts on Dust Mites:
Dust mites are eight-legged arachnids, and are relatives to spiders and ticks. Dust mites are microscopic and, unlike bed bugs, cannot be seen by the naked eye. Adult dust mites live for 2-to-3 months. During this time a female dust mite can lay 25 to 50 eggs every 3 weeks. Large dust mite populations can result, with up to 1 million dust mites inhabiting a single bed!
Q. Where do dust mites live?
A.
Dust mites are found in nearly all homes, even in the cleanest ones. Dust mites prefer warm and humid environments. If relative humidity is greater than 50% for some portion of the year where you live, you can expect to have dust mite populations in your home. Keeping humidity levels in your home below 45% will help control dust mites, thereby limiting your exposure. Dust mites thrive in dark, warm and humid environments and are typically found in pillows, mattresses, comforters, blankets, carpets and upholstered furniture. These areas also provide the dust mite’s greatest food source - the shed scales of human skin.
Q. What is the difference between dust and dust mites?
A.
Dust is made up of many different particles, a variety of which can cause allergies. The dust mite is much smaller and can leave behind more than 100,000 waste particles in a gram of dust, making it a main cause of allergy symptoms.
Q. Am I allergic to the dust mite itself and what are dust mite allergens?
A.
Allergies are not caused by the dust mite itself. Instead, people are sensitive to a combination of the dust mite's waste particles and their dead body fragments. These particles are called dust mite allergens. Tiny dust mite allergens become airborne and are inhaled when you sleep at night or walk or sit on the carpet or sit on upholstered furniture. Unfortunately, long after a dust mite dies, its allergen particles will continue causing allergy symptoms.

--- I ask you fair minded people: --- Do you think that God would cause this type of allergy that comes from the waste particles and decaying bodies of these creatures that are too small to see? --- “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God and are ‘the called’ according to His purpose.” Romans 8:28.
--- Or do you think this is the work of Satan to develop something that flies like dust in the air and people unknowingly breathe it into their lungs?
 

Placid

Senior Member
Sep 27, 2016
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#40
Since there is little interest in dust mites and their activities, which give allergies to some by lingering and dying in their beds and carpets. --- Friends of ours who bought a house that had carpeting in many rooms realized this problem, so they removed all of the carpeting to get rid of it.

However, in dust mites, there is a relationship to the Scriptures I mentioned in posts before.
Matthew 12:45 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”

I had mentioned that unclean or evil spirits don’t find rest in dry places as it says here ‘it goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none.’ --- They only find rest in a water body.
--- Again, with the man among the tombs from whom Jesus cast out the unclean spirits. The household of spirits was Legion, ‘for there were many.’
--- There is a little side story here because they asked Jesus to allow them to go into the swine (out of the water body of the man, and into the water bodies of the swine). --- If this had been a flock of sheep and a few spirits entered some of them, as soon as sheep start running, the others would follow. But not so with pigs. --- If a few spirits entered a few of them and they began running, the others would look at them and think, “I wonder what got into them.”

So there must have been some 2000 or more spirits to infuriate a herd of 2000 pigs. --- Which gives an idea of how many spirits there were in this man before they were cast out.
Jesus was not responsible for the action of the pigs, to lose their minds and their life, --- thus depriving the spirits of those living water bodies as well.

Notice what it says about dust mites, Quote: ‘Dust mites prefer warm and humid environments.’ --- So dust mites like water as well, and could not survive in totally dry places.

I want to give one more scenario, of the possible demonic activity waged against humanity.

'Let’s suppose' that the household of Legion joined with the stronger household of Baalzebub. --- Baal was the god of idolatry and immorality in the OT, and Baalzebub, or Beelzebub is mentioned by name in the Gospels.
--- Quote from Wikipedia: The Dictionnaire Infernal describes Beelzebub as a being capable of flying, known as the "Lord of the Flyers", or the "Lord of the Flies".
Since the name means ‘lord of the flies,’ or ‘flying things,’ then that is interesting because since mites can move as dust in the air, then these germs who live in moisture could travel or ‘fly through the air.’

It is also interesting that in the beginning of Covid – 19, they said the virus was spread by droplets from coughing or sneezing, so social distancing was effective, because if the droplets fall to the ground they become harmless, and washing of hands was necessary to keep the spread off the body and away from the face. --- Droplets left on a dry surface for a time, would be destroyed.

However, with the rapid spread, some have now suggested that the virus must be spread through the breath as well, --- so, all the more reason for social distancing and face masks, as well as hand washing.
--- But ‘let’s suppose’ that these germs from Beelzebub and Legion (with others they might call on), were ‘flying things’ that could travel with this virus when they were exhaled from the lungs and throat of an infected person. --- They would fly straight to the nearest water body to find rest there, and infect that one, whether with mild or severe disease. --- And undetected, that infected one would became a carrier to infect others.
--- Just a thought.