Violent men; Matthew 11:12

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loveschild

loveschild

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Violent men; Matthew 11:12


Matthew 11:7-15 is puzzling to read. It says that the kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.

First of all, note that we can't take Heaven itself by violence. This is talking about the kingdom of Heaven, meaning it's talking about obtaining entry into Heaven. So do we as Christians need to be physically violent? Certainly there are many examples in the Bible of violent, Godly men, including Jesus.

If you were hiking in the woods and saw a woman being taken advantage of by a man, what would you do? You should take action to do whatever you could to defend that woman, and violence would be appropriate. But I don't believe that this passage is referring to physical violence, for the most part. Remember that physical warfare and violence in the Old Testament, translates for the most part into spiritual warfare and violence in the New Testament.

In this case I believe Jesus is alluding to what the life of a Christian man should be like. We should be passionate defenders of the weak, leaders and defenders of the welfare of our families, and passionate warriors who set ourselves against our spiritual enemies.

If you are not pushing against spiritual enemies, fighting to take new ground/territory for the benefit of your family and the kingdom of Heaven, you are not exercising your strength, and you are not appropriately violent. If you are not meeting spiritual resistance to your efforts on behalf of the kingdom of Heaven, it is proof that you are no threat to our enemy.

If we are to, as in the Lord's Prayer, 'let Your kingdom come on earth, even as it is in Heaven', we should be pushing forward the boundaries of God's kingdom with spiritual warfare and ministry to the body of Christ. We will meet resistance in our efforts if we are on the right track, and our efforts to advance the kingdom of Heaven will be violently opposed. We need to forcefully fight forward for the benefit of our king, and His kingdom. We all need to be those violent ones who take/enter the kingdom by force.
Posted by ymb at 8:37 PM

Labels: kingdom of heaven, violence, violent men



 
H

Hearer

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#2
#2
I do agree Jesus was agreeing with the forceful actions. Which is why he defended his father's house of prayer with force. Also he actively laid down his own life for us and took it up again.
 
A

AnandaHya

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#3
#3
ummm Matthew 11 is referring to the war in Heaven and how the angels of Satan were fighting with the angels of the Heavenly Host of God until the time when Jesus' accension to defeat the dragon of Old and cast him and his angels down to earth and are no longer in Heaven anymore.. compare the verses. there are more but here are just two sets...The violent ones would be Satan and his angels and they try and take it by force throughout the time the prophets were prophesied until the time of John's prophecies because that is when Jesus and His angels gain control and tossed them out of Heaven.

now the question is when in Jesus ministry was Satan defeated and Christ's power given?

Matthew 11
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Revelation 12:7-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Luke 4:1
Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

oh sorry this is a spiritual warfare rant.... ummm. got distracted by the qouted Bible verses and don't see how it leads in...
 
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A

AnandaHya

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#4
#4
how are we to be spiritual warriors for Christ? I would study these verses instead....

2 Timothy 2

1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. 3 You therefore must endure[a] hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.

2 Corinthians 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

gotta make dinner... so are we discussing violent men or spiritual warriors for Christ in this thread. sorry just wanted to know...
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#5
#5
AnandaHya said:
ummm Matthew 11 is referring to the war in Heaven and how the angels of Satan were fighting with the angels of the Heavenly Host of God until the time when Jesus' accension to defeat the dragon of Old and cast him and his angels down to earth and are no longer in Heaven anymore.. compare the verses. there are more but here are just two sets...The violent ones would be Satan and his angels and they try and take it by force throughout the time the prophets were prophesied until the time of John's prophecies because that is when Jesus and His angels gain control and tossed them out of Heaven.

now the question is when in Jesus ministry was Satan defeated and Christ's power given?

Matthew 11
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Revelation 12:7-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Luke 4:1
Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

oh sorry this is a spiritual warfare rant.... ummm. got distracted by the qouted Bible verses and don't see how it leads in...
Click to expand...
that is aninteresting bit of theology you give. I read it as affirming the kind of teaching John gave as with all the prophets who were strong men and not the kind of men you would see living in a palace.

But I could see that, perhaps, with the coming of Jesus there would be a new era of grace, garce and truth coming through Jesus as John put it. The law having come through Moses (and the prophets.)

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
loveschild

loveschild

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AnandaHya said:
ummm Matthew 11 is referring to the war in Heaven and how the angels of Satan were fighting with the angels of the Heavenly Host of God until the time when Jesus' accension to defeat the dragon of Old and cast him and his angels down to earth and are no longer in Heaven anymore.. compare the verses. there are more but here are just two sets...The violent ones would be Satan and his angels and they try and take it by force throughout the time the prophets were prophesied until the time of John's prophecies because that is when Jesus and His angels gain control and tossed them out of Heaven.

now the question is when in Jesus ministry was Satan defeated and Christ's power given?

Matthew 11
11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Revelation 12:7-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Luke 4:1
Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

oh sorry this is a spiritual warfare rant.... ummm. got distracted by the qouted Bible verses and don't see how it leads in...
Click to expand...

Matthew 11:7-15 (New King James Version)



Matthew 11:7-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

7 As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:


‘ Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.’[a]

11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

I always like to hear what you have to say. There are some who would yes Jesus defeated Satan. But he is still waiting for his body the church to wake up and put Satan under their feet in Jesus name like they were told to.
As you know lots of people aren't doing warfare prayer and are useless to the Kingdom of God. So they are used by the enemy.
 kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
Is this war still happening in the heavens or not? Why are we told to do warfare prayers??
There are some who say the war, the final war isn't until we come back with God to war Satan.
Some thoughts...........
 
loveschild

loveschild

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I do agree Jesus was agreeing with the forceful actions. Which is why he defended his father's house of prayer with force. Also he actively laid down his own life for us and took it up again.
Click to expand...
We never give up and we are never defeated. We take ground where ever the Lord leads us. I notice how some think to be a Christian means you are some wimp.
We don't run around trying to fight peoples but we are not door mats to be walked all over either.
Stand firm................
 
A

AnandaHya

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#8
I think the war is currently being fought on Earth for Jesus has already won the war in Heaven.
 
loveschild

loveschild

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AnandaHya said:
I think the war is currently being fought on Earth for Jesus has already won the war in Heaven.
Click to expand...

Then who is the prince of the air and where is he and what is he doing??
Who is the accuser of the brothern? How did the accuser keep going to God to talk about Job an all?
Did you ever think of a heaven where God is and a heaven under that heaven where Satan dwells besides earth?
 
H

Hearer

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#10
#10
Just heard a teaching on the origin of this saying in Matthew. It is a prophecy In MIchah Chapter2 of how someone strong ( strong sheep stirred up) like John will break through the sheepfold and make an opening for them to enter freedom, then they will be led by Jesus. Jesus the king will lead them.
First there will be a strong forceful stirring up of the people.

Micah Ch2

Deliverance Promised

12 I will surely gather all of you, O Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people.
13 One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their king will pass through before them, the LORD at their head.
 
A

AnandaHya

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#11
#11
loveschild said:

Then who is the prince of the air and where is he and what is he doing??
Who is the accuser of the brothern? How did the accuser keep going to God to talk about Job an all?
Did you ever think of a heaven where God is and a heaven under that heaven where Satan dwells besides earth?
Click to expand...
Job happened before Satan was thrown out, Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

I believe Satan was thrown out of Heaven when Jesus defeated him during the temptations in the desert scene Jesus talks about it in Luke 10: 18. that is when He starts preaching and uses the power of Christ given to Him. Notice in Luke 10 Jesus says SAW as in past tense not future.

Like I said I think Satan is on Earth not in heaven. But I think the "air" is part of the Earth not heaven and most people don't know where or what heaven really is. and yes I do believe in the various levels of heaven which can be seen when in the Spirit and various aspects of Earth that are also revealed by the Holy Spirit if He so wishes but what is your point about it all?

Ezekiel 8:3
He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy.

2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

Job 1:7
And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

Revelation 12
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

what bible verses are you basing your "prince of air" question?
 
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AnandaHya

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#12
AnandaHya said:
I think the war is currently being fought on Earth for Jesus has already won the war in Heaven.
Click to expand...
I should add I believe that God and His people won the war on Earth when Jesus died on the cross. that was the turning point. right now the enemy is just trying to pull as many down to hell with them as they can before God does His end battle but Jesus came to set the captives free. not to condemn but to save the world.
 
A

Abiding

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#13
We are to pray all types of prayer. But where are we told: "to do warfare prayers"?
What is taking ground? any scripture?
Where does it say: "to wake up and put satan under our feet in Jesus name"?
This is strange doctrine that isnt in my bible

My bible says much about resisting, wearing the armor of truth, with faith.
That ive been delivered from satans kingdom into the kingdom of his dear Son. col1:13
that God does the war....rom 16:20...the God of peace shall bruise Satan under you feet shortly...
Jude warns some against the disrespect of powers of all kind and our orders are not
to battle as a frontal war, but to stand.

Certianly i believe faith produces courage and that we should be strong in the Lord
and the power of His might. But there is a bent in ones outlook that limits the bigger meaning to these texts.
People who are at war all day with satan tell me that since I dont war then I am defeated...ha thing is im not.
So then im told its becuase im irrevellant and useless otherwise i would be attacked...well maybe..but I think i am attacked
always...its just that the fiery darts are quenched. And the Lord has kept me. Those who need extrabiblical activities
knock yourself out.
 
loveschild

loveschild

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AnandaHya said:
Job happened before Satan was thrown out, Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

I believe Satan was thrown out of Heaven when Jesus defeated him during the temptations in the desert scene Jesus talks about it in Luke 10: 18. that is when He starts preaching and uses the power of Christ given to Him. Notice in Luke 10 Jesus says SAW as in past tense not future.

Like I said I think Satan is on Earth not in heaven. But I think the "air" is part of the Earth not heaven and most people don't know where or what heaven really is. and yes I do believe in the various levels of heaven which can be seen when in the Spirit and various aspects of Earth that are also revealed by the Holy Spirit if He so wishes but what is your point about it all?

Ezekiel 8:3
He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy.

2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

Job 1:7
And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

Revelation 12
7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

what bible verses are you basing your "prince of air" question?
Click to expand...


Do think Satan flies? Did he lose his ability to fly when he got thrown out? When Satan talked to God about Job where did they have their meeting? Does Satan go from hell to earth back and forth? Still wondering about that name prince of the air. Lots know it means Satan rules the air(heavens)? Is Satan still accusing and if so from where?
 
loveschild

loveschild

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Hearer said:
Just heard a teaching on the origin of this saying in Matthew. It is a prophecy In MIchah Chapter2 of how someone strong ( strong sheep stirred up) like John will break through the sheepfold and make an opening for them to enter freedom, then they will be led by Jesus. Jesus the king will lead them.
First there will be a strong forceful stirring up of the people.

Micah Ch2

Deliverance Promised

12 I will surely gather all of you, O Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people.
13 One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their king will pass through before them, the LORD at their head.
Click to expand...

Just seems we will never stop learning.
 
loveschild

loveschild

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AnandaHya said:
I should add I believe that God and His people won the war on Earth when Jesus died on the cross. that was the turning point. right now the enemy is just trying to pull as many down to hell with them as they can before God does His end battle but Jesus came to set the captives free. not to condemn but to save the world.
Click to expand...


Your right Jesus did win over Satan but isn't Satan still ruling the earth? Seems lots of evil going on now. Jesus gave man power to rule over Satan did he not? How many people do you know that rule over Satan here on earth? How could Satan pull as you say down to hell if the people had power over Satan and they are free already from Satan?
 
pickles

pickles

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loveschild said:
Violent men; Matthew 11:12


Matthew 11:7-15 is puzzling to read. It says that the kingdom of Heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.

First of all, note that we can't take Heaven itself by violence. This is talking about the kingdom of Heaven, meaning it's talking about obtaining entry into Heaven. So do we as Christians need to be physically violent? Certainly there are many examples in the Bible of violent, Godly men, including Jesus.

If you were hiking in the woods and saw a woman being taken advantage of by a man, what would you do? You should take action to do whatever you could to defend that woman, and violence would be appropriate. But I don't believe that this passage is referring to physical violence, for the most part. Remember that physical warfare and violence in the Old Testament, translates for the most part into spiritual warfare and violence in the New Testament.

In this case I believe Jesus is alluding to what the life of a Christian man should be like. We should be passionate defenders of the weak, leaders and defenders of the welfare of our families, and passionate warriors who set ourselves against our spiritual enemies.

If you are not pushing against spiritual enemies, fighting to take new ground/territory for the benefit of your family and the kingdom of Heaven, you are not exercising your strength, and you are not appropriately violent. If you are not meeting spiritual resistance to your efforts on behalf of the kingdom of Heaven, it is proof that you are no threat to our enemy.

If we are to, as in the Lord's Prayer, 'let Your kingdom come on earth, even as it is in Heaven', we should be pushing forward the boundaries of God's kingdom with spiritual warfare and ministry to the body of Christ. We will meet resistance in our efforts if we are on the right track, and our efforts to advance the kingdom of Heaven will be violently opposed. We need to forcefully fight forward for the benefit of our king, and His kingdom. We all need to be those violent ones who take/enter the kingdom by force.
Posted by ymb at 8:37 PM

Labels: kingdom of heaven, violence, violent men
Click to expand...
I did not read all the posts here, as I wanted to share what first came to mind.
Remember the parable of the land owner?
Where he was away, so he first sent a trusted servent, then a trusted manager, then His own son, believing that certainly they will listen to and obey Him.
The men that had failed to give the shares to the land owner then said to each other, let us kill His son, so thet the inhearitance will be ours!
This is what came to mind when reading the passage you refured to.

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
 
loveschild

loveschild

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#18
Abiding said:
We are to pray all types of prayer. But where are we told: "to do warfare prayers"?
What is taking ground? any scripture?
Where does it say: "to wake up and put satan under our feet in Jesus name"?
This is strange doctrine that isnt in my bible

My bible says much about resisting, wearing the armor of truth, with faith.
That ive been delivered from satans kingdom into the kingdom of his dear Son. col1:13
that God does the war....rom 16:20...the God of peace shall bruise Satan under you feet shortly...
Jude warns some against the disrespect of powers of all kind and our orders are not
to battle as a frontal war, but to stand.

Certianly i believe faith produces courage and that we should be strong in the Lord
and the power of His might. But there is a bent in ones outlook that limits the bigger meaning to these texts.
People who are at war all day with satan tell me that since I dont war then I am defeated...ha thing is im not.
So then im told its becuase im irrevellant and useless otherwise i would be attacked...well maybe..but I think i am attacked
always...its just that the fiery darts are quenched. And the Lord has kept me. Those who need extrabiblical activities
knock yourself out.
Click to expand...
  1. 2 Corinthians 10:3
    For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.
    2 Corinthians 10:2-4 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 10 (Whole Chapter)
  2. 2 Corinthians 10:4
    For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,
    2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 10 (Whole Chapter) 11Put on God's whole armor [the armor of a heavy-armed soldier which God supplies], that you may be able successfully to stand up against [all] the strategies and the deceits of the devil. 12For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.
    13Therefore put on God's complete armor, that you may be able to resist and stand your ground on the evil day [of danger], and, having done all [the crisis demands], to stand [firmly in your place].
    14Stand therefore [hold your ground], having tightened the belt of truth around your loins and having put on the breastplate of integrity and of moral rectitude and right standing with God,
    15And having shod your feet in preparation [to face the enemy with the [a]firm-footed stability, the promptness, and the readiness [b]produced by the good news] of the Gospel of peace.
    16Lift up over all the [covering] shield of [c]saving faith, upon which you can quench all the flaming missiles of the wicked [one].
    17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword that the Spirit [d]wields, which is the Word of God.
    18Pray at all times (on every occasion, in every season) in the Spirit, with all [manner of] prayer and entreaty. To that end keep alert and watch with strong purpose and perseverance, interceding in behalf of all the saints (God's consecrated people).
 
loveschild

loveschild

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Abiding said:
We are to pray all types of prayer. But where are we told: "to do warfare prayers"?
What is taking ground? any scripture?
Where does it say: "to wake up and put satan under our feet in Jesus name"?
This is strange doctrine that isnt in my bible

My bible says much about resisting, wearing the armor of truth, with faith.
That ive been delivered from satans kingdom into the kingdom of his dear Son. col1:13
that God does the war....rom 16:20...the God of peace shall bruise Satan under you feet shortly...
Jude warns some against the disrespect of powers of all kind and our orders are not
to battle as a frontal war, but to stand.

Certianly i believe faith produces courage and that we should be strong in the Lord
and the power of His might. But there is a bent in ones outlook that limits the bigger meaning to these texts.
People who are at war all day with satan tell me that since I dont war then I am defeated...ha thing is im not.
So then im told its becuase im irrevellant and useless otherwise i would be attacked...well maybe..but I think i am attacked
always...its just that the fiery darts are quenched. And the Lord has kept me. Those who need extrabiblical activities
knock yourself out.
Click to expand...


  1. Matthew 12:29
    Or how can a person go into a strong man's house and carry off his goods (the entire equipment of his house) without first binding the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.
    Matthew 12:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
  2. Mark 3:27
    But no one can go into a strong man's house and ransack his household goods right and left and seize them as plunder unless he first binds the strong man; then indeed he may [thoroughly] plunder his house.
    Mark 3:26-28 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
  3. Luke 11:21
    When the strong man, fully armed, [ from his courtyard] guards his own dwelling, his belongings are undisturbed [his property is at peace and is secure].
    Luke 11:20-22 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)


In Jesus name the people in the bible who went around putting Satan under their feet like Peter, Paul and who else. I just really don't know what to say to you. You just make me sad. Make's me think how bad off the church is because there are more like you. Jesus help us!
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#20
#20
lovechild, please dont be sad. Let me say this. The emergent talk bugs me, im sorry to you but it does becuase it
represents some very ugly and terribly damaging doctrines of demons that are in the church and spreading fast. In the
spiritual warfare teachings.

Ok the Bible doesnt talk in terms of warfare prayer, its new language, its modern and coined by false teachers.
The verses you showed are ligit. If there is a demon to cast out and your led, then do it. amen

Ill make some comments first:

your only presuming people dont fight the good fight of faith. Do you personally know all christians? 10,000? 100?
If people dont like demon talk, it doesnt mean they dont stand. And it doesnt mean they dont believe in them either.
We are to keep our minds on things above, lovely and pure and gentle thoughts...these are our orders.

Ok none of the scriptures say we were told to make warfare prayers.

1 nothing here about demons particularly, it doesnt say...could be our flesh, could be the world, truth here is we cant win a battle with our carnal minds against our carnal minds...we need the word. We war more against our own ignorance and carnal thinking than both the world or the devil combined.

2. this still is not spiritual warfare nor is it about spiritual warfare prayer. The 2 cor.10:4 is about renewing the minds and tearing down carnal thinking
(the stronghold mentioned is not demons as is taught today, its thioughts, beliefs, attitudes weve picked up)
I see you have Eph6 good. Yes satans schemes and such will be won.....not by prayer(alone) and yelling or rebuking demons, but with the armor
which is the word of God lived in truth by faith. vrs 18 is great...it says to pray all kinds of prayers always and be allert.

!. 2. 3. Same thing this is not a reference for spiritual warfare prayer. It has a much bigger teaching here than meets the eye for those in the
emergant spiritual warfare group teaching.

In closing its an additional wind of doctrine to say it politely that we do spiritual warfare prayers. Yes we pray. And yes there are demons
and a spiritual world. A world God controls. It not a problem to me that a war is in progress. But its wrong to add to the word and do battles we were not told to do in ways we were not told to do. We resist, he flees. We dont sas spirits, we dont bind spirits. Jude tells us basically not to diss them at all, nor would
Michael the archangel.

They are not creatures we should focus on at all. There is little talk in the bible about them...most of the verses you brought up gave mention, but
then gave instructions, it the instructions we need, and need to follow.

Anyway, im not wanting you ro be sad. I just wont tollorate false teaching. I hope u understand. :)
 
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