Was Mother Mary Sinless and thus disobeys Romans 3:23

[BeyondET]

There is an error in your statement. Jesus did sin when he was young. Isaiah 7:15-16 says that he was old enough to eat curds and honey before he knew enough to reject right from wrong. His sins were unknowing and thereby not really to be counted against Him, but evidently he did sin.

Hebrews 2 16-18
…16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham. 17So He had to be made like His brothers in every way, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.…

 

[notuptome]

The rebellious at heart that love their sin, and look for all excuses to remain in their sin, will always resist the word, its their very habitual nature, they wont come to the light because they love darkness...Keep your little snippet of scripture, out of context, in italicized words, and ignore all the other verses, and then present this to God on judgement day and here what he will say...depart from me ye workers of sin

Hebrews 10:1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 ¶ Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[willybob]

“Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever” (covering all points in time)

This statement could not be true if Jesus had become sin at any point in time. Therefore HE was a spotless and blameless sin offering, and a sweet smelling aroma to God, sin is a stench in the nostrils of God...To those looking on, please do not be fooled by the deceivers who are deceived themselves, their #1 mission is to argue in favor of sin at all costs..its a Satanic mission with some of them..Their ability to twist scripture is amazing...

 

[Magenta]

“Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever” (covering all points in time)

This statement could not be true if Jesus had become sin at any point in time.

It was God's plan from before the foundation of the world to sacrifice His Son, giving His life as a ransom for all... you may as well say that since Jesus was not in human form from the beginning, it means it can't be true that Jesus incarnated, for clearly, doing so is a change. He grew from a baby oops that means He changed from Spirit to baby and then OOPS He went from being a baby to being a teenager and then OOPS He changed again and became an adult. Your assertion is not only ridiculous, it is provably FALSE. Scripture PLAINLY says that Jesus became sin for us.

 

[notuptome]

“Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever” (covering all points in time)

This statement could not be true if Jesus had become sin at any point in time. Therefore HE was a spotless and blameless sin offering, and a sweet smelling aroma to God, sin is a stench in the nostrils of God...To those looking on, please do not be fooled by the deceivers who are deceived themselves, their #1 mission is to argue in favor of sin at all costs..its a Satanic mission with some of them..Their ability to twist scripture is amazing...

Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The moment Christ took upon Himself our sin.

How do you deny the atonement?

His robes for mine what a wonderful exchange. God estranged from God. My robes of sin on Him and His robe of perfect righteousness placed upon me. An awesome spectacle that even the angels in heaven looked at in awe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Denadii]

Shamariel, welcome. Hungry's response notes that Mary was also a mother and wife. I would add that she herself said, "My spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour" Luke 2:47). If she were sinless, she would not need a saviour.

Hungry, you might want to rethink your last sentence. It suggests that conjugal relations between husband and wife which are not intended for procreation are selfish, carnal-minded and bad.

Dino Its the Romanist mindset that sex between husband and wife is ONLY for procreation and never for recreation .

 

[Denadii]

One has to define sinless according to scripture. The term is not found anywhere in the text. The whole idea is a modern day inventive straw-man designed to justify sinful behavior at the expense of the righteous, of the which the prophet Ezekiel said was an abomination to God....Remember sinners are the willful rebellious disobedient (the wicked) in the text, and are contrasted against the righteous on over a 1000 pages therein. Lets examine Mary in the bible. The scriptures witness that she was a righteous women who feared God, like Zechorias & Elezabeth, Simeon, Job, Daniel, Nathaniel, Hannah, Joseph, Jeremiah, and many others. Keep in mind, that a sinner is the OPPOSITE of a saint. The two are as different as day and night. Was Mary made in human frailty, subject to vanity for the Creators purpose? Yes...Was she free from ignorance having all knowledge? No. Did she have moments of anger, or moments of doubt? Yes...Did she have sins of ignorance that were dismissed on the day of atonement? Yes...Remember also the day of atonement was not for willful sin and rebellion, but rather only for sins of ignorance. Did Mary need a Saviour? Of course, but to say that Mary was a sinner is an abomination to God. So we can now establish that she was a righteous women. Would God pick unrighteous parents (sinners) for His only begotten Son to be subject too? I think not...The bible gives us not even the slightest hint that Mary was engaged in the vile sins of the flesh that the apostle Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom."IE" she was not proud, not boastful, not greedy, not an adulterous, not a blasphemer, not a thief, not a liar, not a tale bearer, not a gossiper, not a busy-body, not a Sodomite, not a fornicator, not a railer, not a false accuser, not a mocker of the righteous, not a worshiper of false gods, not a participant of pagan holidays and festivals, not one that would redeem the time unwisely, being a quite and modest women who kept things in her heart, obedient to her husband, and having godly apparel. So these are not the marks of a sinner, but rather one who is numbered among the righteous in the bible...Is she a pagan goddess, or queen of heaven like the imposter Roman Catholic Mary? No....She was a righteous women who feared God and kept His commandments.....To call her just another sinner is to falsely accuse her and is an abomination to the Lord..

You have not given a single scripture in defense of your stance. Philosophy is not Word..

 

[Denadii]

If Mary needed to be sinless so that Jesus could be sinless then Mary's mother would also need to be sinless so that Mary could have been sinless and then for Mary's mother to be sinless Mary's grandmother would also have to be sinless. What a can of worms of infinite regression all the way back to Eve, who we know was without a doubt a sinner, just as Mary was. To say Jesus Christ could not have been born sinless unless Mary was likewise sinless is an abomination of Scripture, plain and simple. Give up your RCC idolatry! Oh I understand that your popes wax poetic on Mary and it is a mandated belief that you must accept despite the fact that there is ZERO Scriptural support for her immaculate conception, same as the mandated ex cathedra dogma of her bodily assumption, again with ZERO Scriptural support, which is again simple fantasizing on the part of popes and those who follow them to their doom and destruction. Praying to her, believing she intercedes on your behalf against the express words of Scripture and moreover against the express instructions of Jesus on how to pray... shame on you!

According to that Romansist theory Mary was a sinner until 1854 when your pope Pius the ninth declared her sinless and the replacement for Jesus.
The Catholic Church has elevated Mary to the level of mediator, advocate, and co-redeemer of humanity, in direct contradiction of the Scriptures. In 1854, Pope Pius IX declared Mary “immaculate,” or sinless, thus giving her the position of mediator.
Mary takes the place of Jesus in Catholic teaching. Instead of the faithful looking to Jesus as the Author and Finisher of their faith, they look to Mary. In Mary they find access to God. In her the Church is all holy and can learn obedience to God.
“The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blesses Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.”
The way to salvation is open to none otherwise than through Mary. The salvation of all depends on their being favoured and protected by Mary. He who is protected by Mary will be saved: he who is not will be lost. Our salvation depends on thee. God will not save us without the intercession of Mary.[SUP]ii[/SUP]
Mary takes the place of God and she herself is treated like a goddess, a teaching to which the Catholic Church is not averse if we study even her modern statements on this issue.
But while in the most Blessed Virgin the Church has already reached that perfection whereby she exists without spot or wrinkle, the faithful still strive to conquer sin and increase in holiness. And so they turn their eyes to Mary: in her, the Church is already the “all-holy."[SUP]iii[/SUP]
Here are some of the names Mary is given, from the book Thunder of Justice:
Prophetess Of These Last Times, The Immaculate Conception, Mother Of The Church, Mary As The New Eve, Queen Of Heaven and Earth/Queen of Peace, The Assumption, Queen of the Holy Rosary, Queen and Mother of Families, Mary as Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate, Our Lady of all Nations, Ark of the New Covenant, Mother of the Second Advent.[SUP]iv[/SUP]
The titles Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate in particular raise serious concerns, as they contradict the plainest teachings of Scripture. The Bible clearly teaches that there is but one Redeemer, Mediator, and Advocate, and that is Christ Jesus.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5)
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people (Luke 1:68).
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (1 John 2:1).
In spite of these words, the Catholic Church is willing to accept Mary in the place of Jesus Christ, depriving Him of His mediatory role. Even more surprising is the willingness of the Catholic Church to acknowledge Mary as goddess and part of the Godhead. This teaching is already covertly in place and is, in effect, nothing other than pagan goddess worship.

God said "

[h=1]Exodus 20:2-4 (CJB)[/h] א [SUP]2 [/SUP]“I am Adonai your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the abode of slavery.
ב [SUP]3 [/SUP]“You are to have no other gods before me. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You are not to make for yourselves a carved image or any kind of representation of anything in heaven above, on the earth beneath or in the water below the shoreline.



[h=1]1 Timothy 2:3-6 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is what God, our Deliverer, regards as good; this is what meets his approval.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He wants all humanity to be delivered and come to full knowledge of the truth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For God is one;[SUP][a][/SUP] and there is but one Mediator between God and humanity, Yeshua the Messiah, himself human, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who gave himself as a ransom on behalf of all, thus providing testimony to God’s purpose at just the right time.

 

[Desertsrose]

There is an error in your statement. Jesus did sin when he was young. Isaiah 7:15-16 says that he was old enough to eat curds and honey before he knew enough to reject right from wrong. His sins were unknowing and thereby not really to be counted against Him, but evidently he did sin.

Hi Crusty,

And there is an error in your statement as well.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:14-16

 

[Mangotree]

Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom. 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Jesus was given a body just like us where it could sin be he kept it from sinning from birth to the cross, he even died a death that was given to all because of Adam and all our sins that was upon him. But he could not be holden of it. Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Jesus came for all including Mary his mother.