Was the STAR of Bethlehem a comet?

[Sketch]

Well the star wasn’t seen by the shepherds, though God did send angels to them. the star from the helix nebula was a temporary creation a short lived star for that purpose.

Is that memo from the same science community that claims we evolved from apes?

 

[posthuman]

here's a page with some historical information from Asian sources about a comet sighted around 4 or 5 BC

http://www.observadores-cometas.com/cometas/Star/Visibility_Star.htm

the author of that link ((just something which randomly turned up in a quick google-search)) presumes ~ 8 week travel time to Jerusalem, which i don't agree with ((from Herod's 2-yr cutoff date of the murder of male children i think we have a ~ 2yr time period between seeing the sign & arriving in Judea)), but it's interesting material

 

[posthuman]

Is that memo from the same science community that claims we evolved from apes?

i don't know that there's much crossover between anthropology & astronomy lol

we don't need to be suspicious of chemists just because someone, somewhere, who also happens to wear a lab coat sometimes believes in monistic evolution.

 

[LPT]

Is that memo from the same science community that claims we evolved from apes?

No some things I say you will only hear from me, like my collection of scriptures I place together in a few post earlier. Maybe one day I’ll finish placing those torn pieces back into one, the four gospels.

 

[posthuman]

Christians can take either one of two positions:

1. EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO THE BIRTH OF CHRIST WAS SUPERNATURAL

2. THERE IS A RATIONAL INTERPRETATION FOR MIRACLES (LIBERALISM)

i disagree.

doesn't scripture say creation testifies of the Creator, and His invisible qualities are clearly seen in what has been made? i don't have to presume every earthquake, eclipse or storm is 100% supernatural and inexplicable as a natural event to believe that the Creator is also the Orchestrator

just because a comet or supernova can be understood as a physical phenomena doesn't mean it's not God who sends it at just the time He means for it to appear. knowing what an earthquake is ((for example)) in terms of having a clue about the physics involved in it is not an 'explanation' it's just a description.

 

[Sketch]

i don't know that there's much crossover between anthropology & astronomy lol

we don't need to be suspicious of chemists just because someone, somewhere, who also happens to wear a lab coat sometimes believes in monistic evolution.

Are the scientists dating the star to September? (or December)

 

[posthuman]

I don’t think it was a comet or a regular star. Comets move too fast to follow blink and it’s gone. Star don’t lead the way and come to a halt over buildings.

comets appear in the sky for months sometimes, varying in brightness and length of tail. the tail points away from the sun in the perspective of looking at the solar system as an whole, material being blown off by solar wind. but from the face of the earth, it could provide an 'arrow' in a particular direction. that would depend on all the geometry of the comet's path and the relative location of the observer on earth

 

[posthuman]

No it was a supernatural event. Comets and other heavenly bodies don't wander round and stop over peoples stables

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”​

When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:​

“‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,​

are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;​

for out of you will come a ruler​

who will shepherd my people Israel.’”​

Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”​

(Matthew 2:1-8) ​

they didn't follow the star to Bethlehem, but somehow inferred that they should go to Judea. they must not have gleaned such specific information from what they saw in the heavens -- else they would have gone straight to Bethlehem instead of going to the presiding king of the land and making further inquiry with him.

please notice, again, Herod found out the exact time the sign had appeared, and then ordered the death of all male children up to 2 years old. that gives us strong evidence that it had been approximately 2 years between the time the magi saw this, whatever it is, and the time they arrived in Judea.

 

[LPT]

i disagree.

doesn't scripture say creation testifies of the Creator, and His invisible qualities are clearly seen in what has been made? i don't have to presume every earthquake, eclipse or storm is 100% supernatural and inexplicable as a natural event to believe that the Creator is also the Orchestrator

just because a comet or supernova can be understood as a physical phenomena doesn't mean it's not God who sends it at just the time He means for it to appear. knowing what an earthquake is ((for example)) in terms of having a clue about the physics involved in it is not an 'explanation' it's just a description.

I remember seeing Halley’s Comet back in 86 each morning while heading to work was quite cool indeed.

 

[posthuman]

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”​

When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:​

“‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,​

are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;​

for out of you will come a ruler​

who will shepherd my people Israel.’”​

Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”​

(Matthew 2:1-8) ​

they didn't follow the star to Bethlehem, but somehow inferred that they should go to Judea. they must not have gleaned such specific information from what they saw in the heavens -- else they would have gone straight to Bethlehem instead of going to the presiding king of the land and making further inquiry with him.

please notice, again, Herod found out the exact time the sign had appeared, and then ordered the death of all male children up to 2 years old. that gives us strong evidence that it had been approximately 2 years between the time the magi saw this, whatever it is, and the time they arrived in Judea.

after i posted this i continued reading the thread, catching up, and saw that Nehemiah already pointed this out
thanks, bro

 

[LPT]

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”​

When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:​

“‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,​

are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;​

for out of you will come a ruler​

who will shepherd my people Israel.’”​

Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”​

(Matthew 2:1-8) ​

they didn't follow the star to Bethlehem, but somehow inferred that they should go to Judea. they must not have gleaned such specific information from what they saw in the heavens -- else they would have gone straight to Bethlehem instead of going to the presiding king of the land and making further inquiry with him.

please notice, again, Herod found out the exact time the sign had appeared, and then ordered the death of all male children up to 2 years old. that gives us strong evidence that it had been approximately 2 years between the time the magi saw this, whatever it is, and the time they arrived in Judea.

I agree good observation of the up to two years, Jesus was a young child by the time the magi arrived from the east and no longer a new born baby.

 

[posthuman]

Right.
It looked like a star, but was doing some things we usually don't associate with stars.
I can't imagine following a star. They are too high up and how could you pick one and follow it?
And could it accurately point to a city? Too high up in the sky. Something that looked like a star but
was closer to the ground would work better and fit the biblical description.

maybe it starts in China with people seeing a sign and understanding it means something about the Lord of heaven and earth. maybe they travel to India and put together more information with wise men there, and understand that it is that a king, 'The King' is born. maybe from there, they travel to Babylon, another renowned center of knowledge, and put together from people who had writings of Daniel and knowledge of Torah that He is prophesied to be King of Judea, seated on the throne of David. so the whole group of wise men from 'the East' collectively go to Israel and directly inquire from Herod, the presiding king. the whole process of seeing the sign, figuring out what it means, and trekking to where it leads them could take close to 2 years.

pure speculation on my part.

it's very interesting to me that they don't go to the Sanhedrin, but to Herod. that tells me that they're not coming because they are necessarily students of Torah, but because they are primarily students of what they see in the heavens.

 

[Sketch]

I don’t think it was a comet or a regular star. Comets move too fast to follow blink and it’s gone. Star don’t lead the way and come to a halt over buildings.

Yes. Described as a star, but not a star. Due to its unusual behavior.

 

[Nehemiah6]

i don't have to presume every earthquake, eclipse or storm is 100% supernatural and inexplicable as a natural event to believe that the Creator is also the Orchestrator

No you don't have to presume anything. There is no way that the star which appeared at the birth of Christ was just another star, or a comet, or a supernova, or any constellation of stars or planets.

"We have seen HIS STAR" says it all. It was a supernatural beacon to herald the birth of Christ. A special star for a special child -- God manifest in the flesh.

And these men traveled several hundred miles to worship Him.

 

[Sketch]

maybe it starts in China with people seeing a sign and understanding it means something about the Lord of heaven and earth. maybe they travel to India and put together more information with wise men there, and understand that it is that a king, 'The King' is born. maybe from there, they travel to Babylon, another renowned center of knowledge, and put together from people who had writings of Daniel and knowledge of Torah that He is prophesied to be King of Judea, seated on the throne of David. so the whole group of wise men from 'the East' collectively go to Israel and directly inquire from Herod, the presiding king. the whole process of seeing the sign, figuring out what it means, and trekking to where it leads them could take close to 2 years.

pure speculation on my part.

it's very interesting to me that they don't go to the Sanhedrin, but to Herod. that tells me that they're not coming because they are necessarily students of Torah, but because they are primarily students of what they see in the heavens.

But that totally destroys the song lyrics.
We 300 kings of Orient are... (too many syllables)

 

[LPT]

No you don't have to presume anything. There is no way that the star which appeared at the birth of Christ was just another star, or a comet, or a supernova, or any constellation of stars or planets.

"We have seen HIS STAR" says it all. It was a supernatural beacon to herald the birth of Christ. A special star for a special child -- God manifest in the flesh.

And these men traveled several hundred miles to worship Him.

I agree my friend it was a special creation and surely posthuman knows that as well.

 

[posthuman]

Mt2:9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was.

thanks

this is the part that throws a wrench into everything. it's still plausible that through some sort of divination having to do with an astronomical sign, they perceived the location of the Child, but it's admittedly a bit of a stretch. if we really are talking about a comet, it's possible that the tail faded, they speak with Herod, head in the direction of Bethlehem, then the tail brightens again and helps point them specifically to Nazareth. the tail of a comet is made of icy material breaking off of the body of the comet as it is warmed by the sun - it can vary as more or less chunks of ice break off and sublimate into gasses blown away by solar wind & inertia.
to further complicate the subject, it begs the question of why the star didn't lead them there first. why did they ask Herod where the child was born? it could be that we're talking about two different things here, that what began with a sign in the heavens culminated with an angelic guide, but this verse identifies it as the same star they had seen in the East. it could be that God purposed them to go first to Herod, to fulfill the scripture by what Herod would do, along with the rest of His holy purpose, and what they were following simply didn't lead them directly to Jesus but led them along in the path God had purposed for them, revealing what and where, when and where God chose?

 

[LPT]

Well the star wasn’t seen by the shepherds, though God did send angels to them. the star from the helix nebula was a temporary creation a short lived star for that purpose.

I’m kidding about the helix star lol.. though you never know... hehe

 

[LPT]

thanks

this is the part that throws a wrench into everything. it's still plausible that through some sort of divination having to do with an astronomical sign, they perceived the location of the Child, but it's admittedly a bit of a stretch. if we really are talking about a comet, it's possible that the tail faded, they speak with Herod, head in the direction of Bethlehem, then the tail brightens again and helps point them specifically to Nazareth. the tail of a comet is made of icy material breaking off of the body of the comet as it is warmed by the sun - it can vary as more or less chunks of ice break off and sublimate into gasses blown away by solar wind & inertia.



to further complicate the subject, it begs the question of why the star didn't lead them there first. why did they ask Herod where the child was born? it could be that we're talking about two different things here, that what began with a sign in the heavens culminated with an angelic guide, but this verse identifies it as the same star they had seen in the East. it could be that God purposed them to go first to Herod, to fulfill the scripture by what Herod would do, along with the rest of His holy purpose, and what they were following simply didn't lead them directly to Jesus but led them along in the path God had purposed for them, revealing what and where, when and where God chose?

That is an excellent observation I have to say especially the second half of your statement I do believe.

 

[posthuman]

No you don't have to presume anything. There is no way that the star which appeared at the birth of Christ was just another star, or a comet, or a supernova, or any constellation of stars or planets.

"We have seen HIS STAR" says it all. It was a supernatural beacon to herald the birth of Christ. A special star for a special child -- God manifest in the flesh.

And these men traveled several hundred miles to worship Him.

well, i think you're limiting your thinking in an unnecessary way to assume from the outset that there is no other possible explanation but 100% not-of-this-universe materials/creatures being involved in the sign the magi saw and interpreted.

and IMO, thousands of miles. i'm pretty convinced that at least one sage from China is involved.