Oh! We were posting around the same time! I know that you are not trying to trap me. I can plainly see that you, like me, desire so much for it to be fit together. You haven't dealt arrogantly. You are seeking more understanding and I agree it is tough and deep for us. We'll get there. God will help if we walk in love. Hope your kiddies feel better tomorrow and you get some sleep. Talk to you later.
Watching "Un-christian Porn" - protect your heart
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You really don't understand GOD's grace or man's righteousness (justness). Can you fathom why Joseph was righteous?
Now the birth of Jesus Christ occurred in this way. His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, [but] before they came together, she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. So Joseph her husband, being righteous and not wanting to disgrace her, intended to divorce her secretly. Matthew 1:18-19
Therefore [in] all [things], whatever you want that people should do to you, thus also you do to them. For this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8
Now the birth of Jesus Christ occurred in this way. His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, [but] before they came together, she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit. So Joseph her husband, being righteous and not wanting to disgrace her, intended to divorce her secretly. Matthew 1:18-19
Therefore [in] all [things], whatever you want that people should do to you, thus also you do to them. For this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8
This, in my opinion, exemplifies why the Grace plus works people get it so wrong. The list a person does is right but the ORDER in which they are done is destructive.
A person CANNOT repent of their sin UNTIL they receive Jesus as the Lord and Savior and is filled with the Holy Spirit.
If we COULD repent BEFORE accepting Jesus, what do we need Jesus for?
In all world religions a person must be sanctified BEFORE they can be saved.
TRUE Christianity says that you have to be saved FIRST, and THEN by the power of the Holy Spirit you will be sanctified.
IMHO. Every one of these divisive arguments between Grace alone believers and Grace plus works believers boils down to that point.
May the blessed Grace of our sweet, Holy Savior, Jesus Christ, be with you all!
A person CANNOT repent of their sin UNTIL they receive Jesus as the Lord and Savior and is filled with the Holy Spirit.
If we COULD repent BEFORE accepting Jesus, what do we need Jesus for?
In all world religions a person must be sanctified BEFORE they can be saved.
TRUE Christianity says that you have to be saved FIRST, and THEN by the power of the Holy Spirit you will be sanctified.
IMHO. Every one of these divisive arguments between Grace alone believers and Grace plus works believers boils down to that point.
May the blessed Grace of our sweet, Holy Savior, Jesus Christ, be with you all!
This contradicts history. John baptized unto repentance before Christ even appeared.
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. Mark 1:4-5
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. Mark 1:4-5
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So the next part of what I see. (By the way, sydlit is okay, was just a little down and weary and forgetting for a time, like we all do, that this is all just temporary. And it doesn't help to come in here in our weariness, looking for some help and encouragement and only find everyone devouring each other and tearing down instead of building up of our faith by and for each other.)
There is a way that we are told that we can tell false teachers from good and it is NOT by examining their doctrine with a nit comb and useless argument over words. It is by their fruit. So we are quite able to see one another's fruit. We KNOW what the fruit of one who is walking by the Spirit is and we do none of us, ourselves included, any favors by putting our stamp of approval on someone for what we deem to be correct doctrine if we can plainly see them presenting their teaching with anger, cursing instead of blessing, arrogance, reviling back when reviled, demanding of apologies rather than forgiveness, name calling, belittling, and so on.
The test of a man we want to listen to and talk with (which doesn't mean his understanding is full and that he doesn't see some things through a glass darkly, as we all do, and that he is perfect in knowledge) is not doctrine. It is the fruits that show he has been with our Lord. Patience, humility, a meekness that doesn't revile and accuse, and love above all. He doesn't get angry and belittle when disagreed with. You don't hear these words from his mouth when he is speaking of his brothers and sisters: stupid, fool, liar for Satan, unsaved, headed for hell, and so on. You see joy, not anger and reviling.
So we can see the fruit of having been with our Lord and having learned from the Holy Spirit instead of men.
I am certain we all agree on this. Doctrine is not the test of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Their fruit is. Do we agree with this first part?
There is a way that we are told that we can tell false teachers from good and it is NOT by examining their doctrine with a nit comb and useless argument over words. It is by their fruit. So we are quite able to see one another's fruit. We KNOW what the fruit of one who is walking by the Spirit is and we do none of us, ourselves included, any favors by putting our stamp of approval on someone for what we deem to be correct doctrine if we can plainly see them presenting their teaching with anger, cursing instead of blessing, arrogance, reviling back when reviled, demanding of apologies rather than forgiveness, name calling, belittling, and so on.
The test of a man we want to listen to and talk with (which doesn't mean his understanding is full and that he doesn't see some things through a glass darkly, as we all do, and that he is perfect in knowledge) is not doctrine. It is the fruits that show he has been with our Lord. Patience, humility, a meekness that doesn't revile and accuse, and love above all. He doesn't get angry and belittle when disagreed with. You don't hear these words from his mouth when he is speaking of his brothers and sisters: stupid, fool, liar for Satan, unsaved, headed for hell, and so on. You see joy, not anger and reviling.
So we can see the fruit of having been with our Lord and having learned from the Holy Spirit instead of men.
I am certain we all agree on this. Doctrine is not the test of our brothers and sisters in Christ. Their fruit is. Do we agree with this first part?
Yes brother. I don't see how this contradicts anything I said. Why did they feel the need to get baptized? Do you believe this baptism saved them or did Jesus save them? Here is what John said a little later.
15 Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not, 16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.”
15 Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not, 16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.”
Okay. So our tenacious insistence on correct doctrine above the fruits of the Spirit is not Gods way. In fact, it is useless if we have all knowledge of doctrine and speak even the language of angels, yet don't have love, longsuffering, bearing with each other in patience, and a humility that blesses instead of cursing.
So to believe that this is the test of our brothers does not come from God. And we know that love, not knowledge, covers a multitude of sins. And, in fact, knowledge puffs up with pride toward our brothers but love builds us all up.
So why would we choose knowledge over walking in love? Eve chose knowledge.
So to believe that this is the test of our brothers does not come from God. And we know that love, not knowledge, covers a multitude of sins. And, in fact, knowledge puffs up with pride toward our brothers but love builds us all up.
So why would we choose knowledge over walking in love? Eve chose knowledge.
P
If you have knowledge you will understand the importance of love.
Try looking up the word knowledge in the bible and tell us how many times we are told it is something to be desired above rubies and gold.
I am of the opinion that if you would sit down and spend somewhere over 30 minutes a day reading the word that you will gain enough knowledge and understanding to give what you say some credibility.
Start with Genesis 1:1. I promise, God would like it if you did.
Try looking up the word knowledge in the bible and tell us how many times we are told it is something to be desired above rubies and gold.
I am of the opinion that if you would sit down and spend somewhere over 30 minutes a day reading the word that you will gain enough knowledge and understanding to give what you say some credibility.
Start with Genesis 1:1. I promise, God would like it if you did.
P
Too many to list.
The word is given to us, thru holy men of God by His spirit. That tells us that the doctrine contained therein is of the spirit.
Quite simple. Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly diving the word of truth.
Study, my dear. It requires effort. It pays off handsomely.
The word is given to us, thru holy men of God by His spirit. That tells us that the doctrine contained therein is of the spirit.
Quite simple. Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly diving the word of truth.
Study, my dear. It requires effort. It pays off handsomely.
No...I agree that we aren't made Holy and then after that, we meet God.
He draws us, heals our blindness in great mercy so that we can repent, and then comes the renewing of our mind and learning to walk in Spirit, or, sanctification.
But this was my experience and what I read seems to match up with it. If you have verses that you think show differently, bring them for us.
He draws us, heals our blindness in great mercy so that we can repent, and then comes the renewing of our mind and learning to walk in Spirit, or, sanctification.
But this was my experience and what I read seems to match up with it. If you have verses that you think show differently, bring them for us.
Come on Phil, this is what I was talking about. This kind of arrogant belittling is where I'm going to refuse to go. I didn't say that right understanding of God was unimportant. But God detests unequal weights. Mercy and love are of greater weight than perfect knowledge which none of us will have here.
I have read many of your posts in this forum and have learned from them, but until you learn to speak without arrogance I am not going to engage with you. Mercy and love trump our going after perfect knowledge. The Pharisees should make that plain to us.
I want to speak with you and I want to hear what you have to say but belittling certainly won't get us there.
I have read many of your posts in this forum and have learned from them, but until you learn to speak without arrogance I am not going to engage with you. Mercy and love trump our going after perfect knowledge. The Pharisees should make that plain to us.
I want to speak with you and I want to hear what you have to say but belittling certainly won't get us there.
