Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

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2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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The fascination and addiction to endless debate just boggles my mind. It amazes me that thread after thread, we go through the same old thing . . . over and over and over again.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,915
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No I am not saying that. I am saying that my OP says that in order to be resurrected you need to be water baptized.
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-

everyone believer or non believer , everyone who lives and dies will be raised up in thier spiritual body. Whether good or evil to be judged according to what they did while in the earthly body

the book of life is to hear and believe the gospel

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:37-40‬ ‭

salvation is to hear and believe the message of Jesus Christ. Baptism is an act of faith we do because we believe the message of Jesus Christ we heard in the gospel. If we actually believe what the gospel says about believers and disciples of Jesus , baptism is going to be a reaction of our belief , an act born of hearing faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So faith acts like this

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-

Peter had convinced these men that Jesus was the messiah they had condemned and had crucified. He just had went through prophecies of the son of David who would sit forever on the throne of Gods kingdom and convinced them witnessing the resurrection written also in prophecy of Jesus

they became convinced of peters words so then faith responded “ what shall we do now ? We killed the messiah ?”

hearing of baptism meant this to them because they believed what they were told


“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”

It seems like arguing about stuff never really changed anyone’s mind about it either way. But to me faith is when we come together believing what’s written and acting as if we do believe it .

if I were to believe baptism is about repentance and remission of sins in Jesus name because I believe he died from my sins and rose up again. And then get baptized by faith my sins are being remitted through repentance and baptism

simply doing what God said to do and receiving what God said we will receive seems To get lost on us, but it’s faith to hear what Jesus said and act on that belief.

baptism is a simple act of faith it doesn’t work if our arm is being twisted , it works because we believe what is said about it
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
Water baptism and resurrection are mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:29. Dismiss it as an aberration if you will, but the text doesn’t say it was an aberration in their church. You need it to be an aberration because you don’t believe the scripture.
I already quoted the words of Christ Himself regarding the resurrection (John 11:25,26). In that context He said that He Himself is the Resurrection and the Life. Not water baptism or anything else. Therefore those who are in Christ are GUARANTEED the first resurrection -- the resurrection of life. So you are in fact rejecting the words of Christ for some silly Corinthian notion that a dip in water guarantees baptism. That is just as silly as baptismal regeneration. But it looks like silliness has taken control of not only the world but many Christians.

Many in the Corinthian church had become silly. That is why Paul had to correct them regarding many things. What he was implying in 1 Cor 15:29 is that even the foolishness of the Corinthians was proof that there is indeed a future resurrection. Paul often uses irony to establish the truth. But the bulk of 1 Corinthians 15 simply makes it clear that because Christ rose from the dead all those who "sleep" in Christ will also rise from the dead, and receive glorious, incorruptible, immortal bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture (the two events are inseparable as also seen in 1 Thessalonians 4.

This thread is another example where the actual teachings of Christ personally are set aside for what Paul said (even if he did not mean to say what is assumed).
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,915
5,638
113
Nah. Being born of water and Spirit is most certainly a reference to actual water baptism since people aren’t literally born again a second time from their mother. You made the same mistake Nicodemus did, apparently, even though Jesus made every effort to correct him. If you won’t hear Him I doubt you’ll hear me.
“If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

JeffA

Minstrel
Mar 31, 2022
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I already quoted the words of Christ Himself regarding the resurrection (John 11:25,26). In that context He said that He Himself is the Resurrection and the Life. Not water baptism or anything else. Therefore those who are in Christ are GUARANTEED the first resurrection -- the resurrection of life. So you are in fact rejecting the words of Christ for some silly Corinthian notion that a dip in water guarantees baptism. That is just as silly as baptismal regeneration. But it looks like silliness has taken control of not only the world but many Christians.

Many in the Corinthian church had become silly. That is why Paul had to correct them regarding many things. What he was implying in 1 Cor 15:29 is that even the foolishness of the Corinthians was proof that there is indeed a future resurrection. Paul often uses irony to establish the truth. But the bulk of 1 Corinthians 15 simply makes it clear that because Christ rose from the dead all those who "sleep" in Christ will also rise from the dead, and receive glorious, incorruptible, immortal bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture (the two events are inseparable as also seen in 1 Thessalonians 4.

This thread is another example where the actual teachings of Christ personally are set aside for what Paul said (even if he did not mean to say what is assumed).
May I add:

John 3:16
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I already quoted the words of Christ Himself regarding the resurrection (John 11:25,26). In that context He said that He Himself is the Resurrection and the Life. Not water baptism or anything else. Therefore those who are in Christ are GUARANTEED the first resurrection -- the resurrection of life. So you are in fact rejecting the words of Christ for some silly Corinthian notion that a dip in water guarantees baptism. That is just as silly as baptismal regeneration. But it looks like silliness has taken control of not only the world but many Christians.

Many in the Corinthian church had become silly. That is why Paul had to correct them regarding many things. What he was implying in 1 Cor 15:29 is that even the foolishness of the Corinthians was proof that there is indeed a future resurrection. Paul often uses irony to establish the truth. But the bulk of 1 Corinthians 15 simply makes it clear that because Christ rose from the dead all those who "sleep" in Christ will also rise from the dead, and receive glorious, incorruptible, immortal bodies at the Resurrection/Rapture (the two events are inseparable as also seen in 1 Thessalonians 4.

This thread is another example where the actual teachings of Christ personally are set aside for what Paul said (even if he did not mean to say what is assumed).
You don't seem to understand what Christ said then. Have you read John 3? Born of water and Spirit? Didn’t Christ say many things about baptism?
 

JeffA

Minstrel
Mar 31, 2022
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May we all sit at the feet of Jesus Christ one day and laugh nostalgically at the discovery of our own error.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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May we all sit at the feet of Jesus Christ one day and laugh nostalgically at the discovery of our own error.
Oh man, when I realize that I am wrong about something, there is no laughter . . . more like cold sweats.
 

JeffA

Minstrel
Mar 31, 2022
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Oh man, when I realize that I am wrong about something, there is no laughter . . . more like cold sweats.
Really? I would rejoice that I have increased in knowledge and truth. Like a revelation!
I would happily have my positions disproved.
That, to me, is learning.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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Really? I would rejoice that I have increased in knowledge and truth. Like a revelation!
I would happily have my positions disproved.
That, to me, is learning.
I agree with all that you wrote. But, when I realize that I have taught others things that are wrong, I am mortified. Am I happy that I have been corrected? Of course, but am mortified that I have led others astray by way of offering a "new gospel." For this is why not many of us should be teachers.
 

JeffA

Minstrel
Mar 31, 2022
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Please, Please, Please!
Prove to me that water baptism is necessary for salvation or any unique resurrection!
Prove to me that speaking in "tongues" somehow identifies me with Holy Spirit!
Prove to me that Jesus did not resurrect on Sabbath!
Prove to me that a Biblical day begins at an time other than sunrise!
Prove to me that God the Father's name is not "Yahuah" (at least show me a more plausible pronunciation of YHWH).

There are so many things I would love to have proven to me regarding scripture.
Just do it with an open mind and open heart. No Preaching, patronizing, condescending, or such.
Remember, ALL scripture must reconcile. Otherwise, we have an incorrect understanding.

I'm game! Teach me or agree with me! Either way is a win-win!
 

JeffA

Minstrel
Mar 31, 2022
360
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28
I agree with all that you wrote. But, when I realize that I have taught others things that are wrong, I am mortified. Am I happy that I have been corrected? Of course, but am mortified that I have led others astray by way of offering a "new gospel." For this is why not many of us should be teachers.
I surely understand what you mean.
I've seen many pastors that are so mortified of changing their position that they continue to teach bad doctrine after they KNOW it to be wrong. This is, by far, worse than moving forward in truth.
Take the KJV, for example. We all know it to be an excellent translation of both the Hebrew and Greek.
Some pastors reject the notion that there are other translations that are MUCH easier to teach from.
It's almost like they think that the (dead language) olde English is a "Holy" language in itself.
At our little Church we sometimes have to translate the old English into an understandable form. It wastes time.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Romans 12:2 speaks of Transformation. When a person is Transformed, this will indicate if a person has been redeemed of the Adamic Curse as described in Romans chapter 5. If a person has been lifted of the evil impact of the Mind of the Devil and replaced with the Mind of Christ, the changed life is dramatic and undeniable.

Do you have a Transformation story that you've always been excited to speak of? Adam and Eve went from pure thinking to corrupt thinking and they have a story to tell of that Transformation. It is just as dramatic for the one who has been saved, for their mind Transforms from corrupt thinking to a source of Divine and Pure thinking, and it increases more and more to reflect the Glory of God. Do you recall when that dramatic change began within you? If so, are you willing to outline your past behavior and how you have permanently changed?
Yes every Christian has a transformation story. I wasn't raised as a Christian, but in my family and geographic region there's a lot of Christian influence. I believed in God for a long time, but I didn't really believe in Jesus probably until I was in my 30s and I am 36 now. In the mean time, I eventually self-identified as an atheist for a number of years and when I finally got curious about God again I went down several different "spiritual" roads that mostly went no where.

I was an amateur ghost hunter at one point and that's where I actually realized spiritual entities are real and that was life-changing. I have explored more than one faith and trust me they are dead ends. One night out of the blue, whether I was dreaming or not I don't 100% know, but it seemed real. I heard a man talking and he said "Do not be afraid. Will you give your life in servitude to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?" and I agreed. He talked about many other things and led me in a guided prayer, confessing my sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Let's just say things got interesting after that and the next day I came under attack by the devil. Every real Christian has a temptation in the desert for 40 days or so, a kind of trial by fire, and various tests, I believe. The devil is real. Very real and he is going about seeking whom he may devour.

The Bible is real and the God of the Bible, Yahweh, and His Son Jesus of Nazareth are real. I have seen Jesus too. After my conversion, I prayed if I could see Jesus, almost in tears, because I love Him so much now. Again, I don't know 100% for sure if I dreamed or not (really seemed like I was awake though), but suddenly one night I woke up and I saw a cloud beside me by the bed and suddenly there was a face in this cloud; a Middle Eastern looking man, tan skin, dark hair, long nose. I believe that was Jesus. He simply looked into my eyes then quickly disappeared.

Anyway, all of this sounds incredible, but for me these experiences were real. They led me from being an atheist, to wondering about God, to being a born again Christian. I am saved by grace and I believe I have the gift of prophecy now.

What's your story?
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
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You've already been corrected about this verse. So why do you persist in your false claim?

Water baptism SYMBOLIZES the baptism (identification) that saves.

You think ...wrong again.
People can read...give them credit.
You are not a dictator...yet.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-

everyone believer or non believer , everyone who lives and dies will be raised up in thier spiritual body. Whether good or evil to be judged according to what they did while in the earthly body

the book of life is to hear and believe the gospel

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:37-40‬ ‭

salvation is to hear and believe the message of Jesus Christ. Baptism is an act of faith we do because we believe the message of Jesus Christ we heard in the gospel. If we actually believe what the gospel says about believers and disciples of Jesus , baptism is going to be a reaction of our belief , an act born of hearing faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So faith acts like this

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-

Peter had convinced these men that Jesus was the messiah they had condemned and had crucified. He just had went through prophecies of the son of David who would sit forever on the throne of Gods kingdom and convinced them witnessing the resurrection written also in prophecy of Jesus

they became convinced of peters words so then faith responded “ what shall we do now ? We killed the messiah ?”

hearing of baptism meant this to them because they believed what they were told


“Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”

It seems like arguing about stuff never really changed anyone’s mind about it either way. But to me faith is when we come together believing what’s written and acting as if we do believe it .

if I were to believe baptism is about repentance and remission of sins in Jesus name because I believe he died from my sins and rose up again. And then get baptized by faith my sins are being remitted through repentance and baptism

simply doing what God said to do and receiving what God said we will receive seems To get lost on us, but it’s faith to hear what Jesus said and act on that belief.

baptism is a simple act of faith it doesn’t work if our arm is being twisted , it works because we believe what is said about it

Is your arm bent for repentance?
what is your point.
Stay with Bible language.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
Yes every Christian has a transformation story. I wasn't raised as a Christian, but in my family and geographic region there's a lot of Christian influence. I believed in God for a long time, but I didn't really believe in Jesus probably until I was in my 30s and I am 36 now. In the mean time, I eventually self-identified as an atheist for a number of years and when I finally got curious about God again I went down several different "spiritual" roads that mostly went no where.

I was an amateur ghost hunter at one point and that's where I actually realized spiritual entities are real and that was life-changing. I have explored more than one faith and trust me they are dead ends. One night out of the blue, whether I was dreaming or not I don't 100% know, but it seemed real. I heard a man talking and he said "Do not be afraid. Will you give your life in servitude to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?" and I agreed. He talked about many other things and led me in a guided prayer, confessing my sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Let's just say things got interesting after that and the next day I came under attack by the devil. Every real Christian has a temptation in the desert for 40 days or so, a kind of trial by fire, and various tests, I believe. The devil is real. Very real and he is going about seeking whom he may devour.

The Bible is real and the God of the Bible, Yahweh, and His Son Jesus of Nazareth are real. I have seen Jesus too. After my conversion, I prayed if I could see Jesus, almost in tears, because I love Him so much now. Again, I don't know 100% for sure if I dreamed or not (really seemed like I was awake though), but suddenly one night I woke up and I saw a cloud beside me by the bed and suddenly there was a face in this cloud; a Middle Eastern looking man, tan skin, dark hair, long nose. I believe that was Jesus. He simply looked into my eyes then quickly disappeared.

Anyway, all of this sounds incredible, but for me these experiences were real. They led me from being an atheist, to wondering about God, to being a born again Christian. I am saved by grace and I believe I have the gift of prophecy now.

What's your story?
I like your story. And, I wish that more would share, causing me to wonder why we don't.

My Transformation story is intense, and . . . it is extensive. In short, after rescuing my "adoptive father" from being murdered by mutilation by a young man who had overtaken his life, while on the way home from Arizona to Washington state, I had a most Powerful experience with first the Terror of the Lord. This terror was beyond any worldly terror we might experience in this physical world. In short, it was going to kill me likely from heart attack or aneurysm . . . an internal explosion of some sort. I was driving down the freeway when this happened and after somehow managing to get off the freeway and parked . . . I realized that I needed to pray to God lest I die. You can imagine the sense of panic that I was in. I had a foot in hell and I knew for sure that I didn't want to go there. So I began calling out to God and sure enough, as slowly as the Terror of the Lord diminished, His Peace and Love increased as if both were controlled through some kind of dial or knob that someone was controlling. Again, I am making this extremely short. The Peace and Love of God finally became so incredible, so overpowering, that it too was about to kill more. No one can be in the presence of God and live. This Power was so strong that if I had felt more, my body would have been physically altered. And yes, this Power was nothing more or less than Peace and Love. It was incredible! I would have been just fine if my physical body had died at that moment, there was no complaint.

From that day forward, my life has not been the same. I have held no control over my life, for I was purchased by Christ right there in the middle of the Arizona desert. As hard as I have tried to control the events of my life . . . it has been impossible . . . and I have been utterly miserable as I have tried to live 100% dedicated to my Powerful, Almighty God.

Though I have been a part of the church my entire life, at age 48 when this happened, I thought I was a believer. But after feeling this Power, I realized that I was not. For there, in the Desert, my heart was Truly Circumcised by Christ. As I later learned by reading the Bible, I found out that Spiritual Circumcision is what Christ had done for me. Jesus separated the Adamic Curse from my heart so that I could be free to finally Believe, Submit, Obey, possess True Confidence and then finally Share the True Gospel. I realized that I never knew what the Gospel was. And so my life began to change more, and more, and more. I was always ashamed of holding my hands up in the air to God, or to be on my knees, but after this, it became a regular experience. I finally obtained genuine "Fear of the Lord," a remarkable sense of reverence for a God who I found out was allowing me to even breathe.

That's the short version of my Transformation, and again, I wish that more would testify of their Transformation story. And True Transformations come from being relieved of the Curse of the Lord. So much more could be said.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
I like your story. And, I wish that more would share, causing me to wonder why we don't.

My Transformation story is intense, and . . . it is extensive. In short, after rescuing my "adoptive father" from being murdered by mutilation by a young man who had overtaken his life, while on the way home from Arizona to Washington state, I had a most Powerful experience with first the Terror of the Lord. This terror was beyond any worldly terror we might experience in this physical world. In short, it was going to kill me likely from heart attack or aneurysm . . . an internal explosion of some sort. I was driving down the freeway when this happened and after somehow managing to get off the freeway and parked . . . I realized that I needed to pray to God lest I die. You can imagine the sense of panic that I was in. I had a foot in hell and I knew for sure that I didn't want to go there. So I began calling out to God and sure enough, as slowly as the Terror of the Lord diminished, His Peace and Love increased as if both were controlled through some kind of dial or knob that someone was controlling. Again, I am making this extremely short. The Peace and Love of God finally became so incredible, so overpowering, that it too was about to kill more. No one can be in the presence of God and live. This Power was so strong that if I had felt more, my body would have been physically altered. And yes, this Power was nothing more or less than Peace and Love. It was incredible! I would have been just fine if my physical body had died at that moment, there was no complaint.

From that day forward, my life has not been the same. I have held no control over my life, for I was purchased by Christ right there in the middle of the Arizona desert. As hard as I have tried to control the events of my life . . . it has been impossible . . . and I have been utterly miserable as I have tried to live 100% dedicated to my Powerful, Almighty God.

Though I have been a part of the church my entire life, at age 48 when this happened, I thought I was a believer. But after feeling this Power, I realized that I was not. For there, in the Desert, my heart was Truly Circumcised by Christ. As I later learned by reading the Bible, I found out that Spiritual Circumcision is what Christ had done for me. Jesus separated the Adamic Curse from my heart so that I could be free to finally Believe, Submit, Obey, possess True Confidence and then finally Share the True Gospel. I realized that I never knew what the Gospel was. And so my life began to change more, and more, and more. I was always ashamed of holding my hands up in the air to God, or to be on my knees, but after this, it became a regular experience. I finally obtained genuine "Fear of the Lord," a remarkable sense of reverence for a God who I found out was allowing me to even breathe.

That's the short version of my Transformation, and again, I wish that more would testify of their Transformation story. And True Transformations come from being relieved of the Curse of the Lord. So much more could be said.
I like your story, too, and at one point while I was reading it, you began to remind me of myself a bit. I thought I was probably one of the only people who feels like their life is completely out of their control, but now I see that experience that too.

This is the part that I sympathize heavily with:

“From that day forward, my life has not been the same. I have held no control over my life, for I was purchased by Christ right there in the middle of the Arizona desert. As hard as I have tried to control the events of my life . . . it has been impossible . . . and I have been utterly miserable as I have tried to live 100% dedicated to my Powerful, Almighty God.”

I have never had the feeling of the Terror of the Lord, at least not to the degree you described, or had any intense feelings sensations like you did. I think I have felt much lesser degrees of all of the above, but it never felt life threatening.

Praise God. That’s a great story indeed.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
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I like your story, too, and at one point while I was reading it, you began to remind me of myself a bit. I thought I was probably one of the only people who feels like their life is completely out of their control, but now I see that experience that too.

This is the part that I sympathize heavily with:

“From that day forward, my life has not been the same. I have held no control over my life, for I was purchased by Christ right there in the middle of the Arizona desert. As hard as I have tried to control the events of my life . . . it has been impossible . . . and I have been utterly miserable as I have tried to live 100% dedicated to my Powerful, Almighty God.”

I have never had the feeling of the Terror of the Lord, at least not to the degree you described, or had any intense feelings sensations like you did. I think I have felt much lesser degrees of all of the above, but it never felt life threatening.

Praise God. That’s a great story indeed.
Thank you. I am truly Blessed, as even though it has been many years since those remarkable events, I still wonder, "Why me?"

As for the Terror of the Lord, I wish that all people could experience it, as it certainly wakes up a person to the reality of the evil Spirit World. Nothing could ever happen to me in this physical world that could ever possibly be more frighting than Spiritual Terror. That's saying something, for as a 12-year-old boy, I thought I was going to be raped, murdered, and buried on the side of a snowy mountain by my scoutmaster, only to be found the following spring when the snow melted off. I've also thought that I was going to be murdered by my drunk father. I've experienced worldly terrors, but Spiritual Terror is so incredibly far beyond worldly terror . . . they're not even close.

However, what was but even more incredible was the Power that comes JUST from the Peace and Love that comes from God. His mere existence that emanates Peace and Love is more than what human flesh can endure. Just incredible.

Numbers 11:29 NLT - "But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

When I read this statement from Moses after my Spiritual experience, it had an entirely new meaning. In fact, after this experience of mine, when I read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order, it was like an entirely new book or set of books and letters. Having felt the Power of God, I noted every instance in the Bible that relates to His Almighty Power and there are hundreds. How could we miss this primary concept? So often God said something to the effect of, "Then they will know that I am the Lord." These are statements of God establishing His Power . . . yet they meant nothing to me prior to my Damascus Road-like experience. And speaking of young saul later to be named Paul, his entire experience on the Damascus Road took upon a whole new meaning. Wow, did I ever relate to that experience, for he not only was consumed and controlled by the Power of God but he was also told of how much he would suffer in his life. Young Saul was bought and purchased right there on the Damascus Road and he was no longer his own. He was the property of God, compelled to do the Lord's will.

Our Bible is so utterly remarkable.
 

Gideon300

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Water baptism comes after the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit for example, with Cornelius and his house hold was the salvational sign that gave Peter and his companions the evidence that they had received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Then came the baptism of water which is good but isn't a work of salvation. Even the thief on the cross couldn't be baptized by water.
Not true. The order is unimportant. I was baptised in water about 2 years before I was baptised in the Holy Spirit. I knew about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It took me a couple of years to decide that it really was of God and that it was for me. I can assure you that I'm not the only person. I know people who were raised in Baptist circles who resisted for decades until God opened their eyes.
 

Gideon300

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Then you disagree with God's word.

Suggest a study of the Bible on baptism...it is required for sin cleansing;

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

many others.

Like all of God's commandments...it is mandatory.
Picking on one verse and making a law out of it is foolish. Water does not remove sin. It is the precious blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God, that removes sin. Suggest a study on the precious blood of Jesus.

I knew forgiveness for sin long before I learned about believer's baptism. I knew that my sins were forgiven the moment I received Christ. The man who witnessed to me explained about the blood. He was a baby sprinkler so he did not mention baptism at all. Once I learned about water baptism, I was baptised.