Water Baptism-What is in a Name?

[CS1]

You may want to reread the scripture. It actually says, he (the Comforter) dwells with you, meaning at that time, but would be IN them; meaning in the future:

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17

Thank you for not answering my questions about the Holy Spirit in this Old Testament. And the work of that Holy Spirit in the new.

I'm more open to your opinion than you are of others. Yet you and some others here are unwilling to answer what is provided for the word of God. You will never admit you could be wrong that is the difference from you and I.


in post 471, I asked with scripture for you to answer you did not:

"you explain how the Holy Spirit would come upon Kings, Prophets and Judges and would also depart?"

Was it not David who said, "Do not take thy Holy Spirit from me"? Ps 51:11



Was it not Samson that the Spirit of God departed, and HE did not know it? Judges 16:20


And was it not the Lord who said in John 14

That the Comforter would be with you AND in you 14:17

The very Greek translation for "Comforter is paraklētos = summoned, called to one's side or one who comes alongside.


They are not the same thing upon and in context to the Holy Spirit because the bible shows they are different.

The Apostles received the Holy Spirit in John chapter 20 and then waited to receive power, as we see in Acts 2:38 ."


You did not provide any biblical understanding or text to refute my understanding of these scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments.


In the very Text of John 14:17, Jesus is speaking. HE said in KJV, Dwell with you and be IN YOU. They are not the same thing, and we that is the Bible. You can disagree. That is fine. It is not my job to make you agree. Others can see and weigh it out from their own studying of the word of God.

 

[jamessb]

Here is John 14:15-17 in the NIV: “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

 

[Wansvic]

You don't know how to read, and I provided his very comments.


"The scriptures I noted reveal the truth whether or not a person chooses to accept them. "

He said the scripture He noted reveals the truth. As HE sees those scriptures. So my point is founded.

The scriptures mean the scriptures.

 

[Wansvic]

I did read it. And you are incorrect Jesus said as HE said it in John chapter 14.

Words such as, would be with, and dwelleth with can change the meaning of a scripture entirely.

As mentioned your scripture reference in post 471 was inaccurate.

What Jesus actually said provides insight. "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17

Meaning The Holy Spirit/God in Jesus, was dwelling with them. (2 Cor. 5:19, John 10:38, 14:10, Col 2:9) And after the resurrection, the Holy Spirit would come to dwell in them.

 

[Wansvic]

I did read it. And you are incorrect Jesus said as HE said it in John chapter 14.

It's very important that you re-read the scripture. It does not say what you believe it says.

 

[Wansvic]

Thank you for not answering my questions about the Holy Spirit in this Old Testament. And the work of that Holy Spirit in the new.

I'm more open to your opinion than you are of others. Yet you and some others here are unwilling to answer what is provided for the word of God. You will never admit you could be wrong that is the difference from you and I.


in post 471, I asked with scripture for you to answer you did not:

"you explain how the Holy Spirit would come upon Kings, Prophets and Judges and would also depart?"

Was it not David who said, "Do not take thy Holy Spirit from me"? Ps 51:11



Was it not Samson that the Spirit of God departed, and HE did not know it? Judges 16:20


And was it not the Lord who said in John 14

That the Comforter would be with you AND in you 14:17

The very Greek translation for "Comforter is paraklētos = summoned, called to one's side or one who comes alongside.


They are not the same thing upon and in context to the Holy Spirit because the bible shows they are different.

The Apostles received the Holy Spirit in John chapter 20 and then waited to receive power, as we see in Acts 2:38 ."


You did not provide any biblical understanding or text to refute my understanding of these scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments.


In the very Text of John 14:17, Jesus is speaking. HE said in KJV, Dwell with you and be IN YOU. They are not the same thing, and we that is the Bible. You can disagree. That is fine. It is not my job to make you agree. Others can see and weigh it out from their own studying of the word of God.

I did give an answer regarding those of the OT (post 473) "Lastly, those living in the OT could not experience being born again. That reality is only possible for those living after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection." Meaning there was a difference in what they experienced vs those in the NT. Do I know exactly what and why? No.

I am unsure about John 20:22. In that account Jesus breathed on the apostles and said receive the Holy Ghost. I've wondered if Jesus was actually transferring the Holy Ghost at that point or referencing something yet to come.

The Acts 2:1-4 account gives credence to something yet to come. There was a wind that preceded the group being filled with the Holy Ghost. Further, Peter stated that what happened was the giving of the Holy Ghost by Jesus: "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:33

A couple of other things to consider:
1. Jesus said the Holy Spirit could not come until He departed. And as mentioned it was after Jesus departed that He shed forth the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:33)
2. One would expect that a person who has the Holy Ghost wouldn't need a separate experience to activate power. I say that with all sincerity.

 

[CS1]

Words such as, would be with, and dwelleth with can change the meaning of a scripture entirely.

As mentioned your scripture reference in post 471 was inaccurate.

What Jesus actually said provides insight. "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17

Meaning The Holy Spirit/God in Jesus, was dwelling with them. (2 Cor. 5:19, John 10:38, 14:10, Col 2:9) And after the resurrection, the Holy Spirit would come to dwell in them.

again

" Comforter " The very Greek translation for "Comforter is paraklētos = summoned, called to one's side or one who comes alongside.

In you and with you two things that are not the same the English term dwelleth= with you.

 

[CS1]

Words such as, would be with, and dwelleth with can change the meaning of a scripture entirely.

As mentioned your scripture reference in post 471 was inaccurate.

What Jesus actually said provides insight. "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:17

Meaning The Holy Spirit/God in Jesus, was dwelling with them. (2 Cor. 5:19, John 10:38, 14:10, Col 2:9) And after the resurrection, the Holy Spirit would come to dwell in them.

nope disagree provide the context for " Comforter" as Jesus said

 

[CS1]

It's very important that you re-read the scripture. It does not say what you believe it says.

read it and understand it.

 

[TheLearner]

What are the unanswered questions?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

again

" Comforter " The very Greek translation for "Comforter is paraklētos = summoned, called to one's side or one who comes alongside.

In you and with you two things that are not the same the English term dwelleth= with you.

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[CS1]

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think some need to read the actions and exploits of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Wansvic]

again

" Comforter " The very Greek translation for "Comforter is paraklētos = summoned, called to one's side or one who comes alongside.

In you and with you two things that are not the same the English term dwelleth= with you.

Please accept this as intended. I am trying to be helpful not argumentative. It's not a need to be right that compels me to reference this again. The reason is a misunderstanding of what Jesus said in John 14:17 can lead people to believe the experience of receiving the Comforter/Holy Ghost takes place twice.

Note Jesus DID NOT say the Comforter would dwell with AND in them in the future. That's the point. He said the Comforter was currently dwelling with the disciples but would be IN them in the future.

 

[CS1]

Please accept this as intended. I am trying to be helpful not argumentative. It's not a need to be right that compels me to reference this again. The reason is a misunderstanding of what Jesus said in John 14:17 can lead people to believe the experience of receiving the Comforter/Holy Ghost takes place twice.

Note Jesus DID NOT say the Comforter would dwell with AND in them in the future. That's the point. He said the Comforter was currently dwelling with the disciples but would be IN them in the future.

No, he did not. Jesus said I must go or the Comforter will not come. It most certainly was an event to happen in the future

John 14:15-21

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

19 “ A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Chapter 15 of John 15:26-27

26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.


John Chapter 16:5-7, which 14 & 15 chapters od John are contextual with each other:

"5 But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away;

for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you;

but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."
"
Everything Jesus is saying in John chapter 14, 15, and 16 are spoken as an event that is or has not happen. Jesus said Will send, Not Has come. Jesus said, "I must go." he did not say I had left. The very language here is of something that has not happened yet.



I disagree

I think you are compelled to be correct. The problem is the word of God doesn't support it. The very fact you can't quote what someone has said and conjecture their words is the issue with your understanding.

No one said, "receiving the Holy Spirit twice".

" Come upon and In" are two works of the Holy Spirit in the believer.

John chapter 20: 22

"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

Then He told them to go and wait

Luke 24:49

49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

The apostles were saved. And received the Holy Spirit. Then we were told to wait until Power comes, NOT Salvation. They were told to go and preach but to wait first.

We see in John Chapter 1:33

I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’


This did not happen until they were all in the upper Room, and then the Power came.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No, he did not. Jesus said I must go or the Comforter will not come. It most certainly was an event to happen in the future

John 14:15-21

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

19 “ A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Chapter 15 of John 15:26-27

26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.


John Chapter 16:5-7, which 14 & 15 chapters od John are contextual with each other:

"5 But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away;

for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you;

but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."
"
Everything Jesus is saying in John chapter 14, 15, and 16 are spoken as an event that is or has not happen. Jesus said Will send, Not Has come. Jesus said, "I must go." he did not say I had left. The very language here is of something that has not happened yet.



I disagree

I think you are compelled to be correct. The problem is the word of God doesn't support it. The very fact you can't quote what someone has said and conjecture their words is the issue with your understanding.

No one said, "receiving the Holy Spirit twice".

" Come upon and In" are two works of the Holy Spirit in the believer.

John chapter 20: 22

"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

Then He told them to go and wait

Luke 24:49

49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

The apostles were saved. And received the Holy Spirit. Then we were told to wait until Power comes, NOT Salvation. They were told to go and preach but to wait first.

We see in John Chapter 1:33

I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’


This did not happen until they were all in the upper Room, and then the Power came.

Do you know that the sacrament of baptism as a participation in the death of Christ, is to be baptised into his death as well as his resurrection.

 

[CS1]

Do you know that the sacrament of baptism as a participation in the death of Christ, is to be baptised into his death as well as his resurrection.

FYI, they are not sacrament baptisms, which is an ordinance . I do not hold to Transubstantiation of the RCC. Baptism is symbolic because Jesus died for me. Water baptism represents the grave, not a substitute for it.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

FYI, they are not sacrament baptisms, which is an ordinance . I do not hold to Transubstantiation of the RCC. Baptism is symbolic because Jesus died for me. Water baptism represents the grave, not a substitute for it.

No it's a sacrament in the church of England to.

Your not going to insult more than half of England are you 🤔

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

FYI, they are not sacrament baptisms, which is an ordinance . I do not hold to Transubstantiation of the RCC. Baptism is symbolic because Jesus died for me. Water baptism represents the grave, not a substitute for it.

Acts 2:37-39

New International Version



37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Children will get called to be baptised,

Why is that friend

 

[CS1]

No it's a sacrament in the church of England to.

You're not going to insult more than half of England, are you 🤔

Well, I'm an American. That should be insulting enough 1776 and all you know.

 

[CS1]

Acts 2:37-39

New International Version



37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Children will get called to be baptised,

Why is that friend

I am saved by grace through faith, not by the work of water Baptism but by the blood of Jesus.