WE are judged by what we do vs. we are saved by faith alone.
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Thank for your partisipatian
At least I know I am right you accused Jesus lie on verse 41-42
You believe verse 42 not cause people go to eternal fire while Jesus say those people that not feed the hungry go to hell
It is your choice I chose to believe Jesus like he say on verse 41-42
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
At least I know I am right you accused Jesus lie on verse 41-42
You believe verse 42 not cause people go to eternal fire while Jesus say those people that not feed the hungry go to hell
It is your choice I chose to believe Jesus like he say on verse 41-42
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
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FreeGrace2 said:
but the verse is a description of what believers DO, not HOW they receive eternal life.
Sure, most do. But there are a multitude of verses that show very clearly believers who failed to obey from time to time.
Moses is a glaring example. He struck a rock when commanded to speak to a rock for water. And the result? He wasn't allowed to enter the promised land.
FreeGrace2 said:
IF IF IF you were correct about faith causing obedience, then explain WHY so many believers in the Bible have screwed up so much. Can you do that?
No, I have never said what you are claiming.
Just read your Bible. Over the course of the entire human race, yes, a LOT of them.
What I said is that John 10:27 is a description of what believers DO. Or more accurately, Jesus was giving a policy statement for believers. Do you understand what a policy statement is? And what they are for?
Yes.
but the verse is a description of what believers DO, not HOW they receive eternal life.
Sure, most do. But there are a multitude of verses that show very clearly believers who failed to obey from time to time.
Moses is a glaring example. He struck a rock when commanded to speak to a rock for water. And the result? He wasn't allowed to enter the promised land.
FreeGrace2 said:
IF IF IF you were correct about faith causing obedience, then explain WHY so many believers in the Bible have screwed up so much. Can you do that?
No, I have never said what you are claiming.
Just read your Bible. Over the course of the entire human race, yes, a LOT of them.
What I said is that John 10:27 is a description of what believers DO. Or more accurately, Jesus was giving a policy statement for believers. Do you understand what a policy statement is? And what they are for?
Yes.
FreeGrace2 said:
Yes, you are definitely confused. Being LED to obedience is NOT CAUSING obedience.
Do you understand the difference between being led vs being caused?
OK. To be "led" means one wants to go that way.
To be "caused" means to be FORCED to go that way.
Does this help?
Yes, you are definitely confused. Being LED to obedience is NOT CAUSING obedience.
Do you understand the difference between being led vs being caused?
OK. To be "led" means one wants to go that way.
To be "caused" means to be FORCED to go that way.
Does this help?
Sure. Because these "some people" KNOW that the Bible speaks of eternal life is on the basis of faith ONLY.
No works involved.
But you are free to refute me if you can find ANY verse that says salvation is by works.
Of course believers, children of God, the regenerated, need to obey.
Because being blessed and rewarded for all eternity are worthy goals.
Those who don't obey lose blessings during their life on earth and rewards in eternity.
No works involved.
But you are free to refute me if you can find ANY verse that says salvation is by works.
Of course believers, children of God, the regenerated, need to obey.
Because being blessed and rewarded for all eternity are worthy goals.
Those who don't obey lose blessings during their life on earth and rewards in eternity.
No.
What happen to
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
What happen to
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
FreeGrace2 said:
Do you know any verse that says salvation is by works?
Wow. OK, then why do you believe it is?
Nothing "happened to it".
Jesus is describing what unbelievers didn't do. So what?
Do you know any verse that says salvation is by works?
Wow. OK, then why do you believe it is?
Nothing "happened to it".
Jesus is describing what unbelievers didn't do. So what?
I believe salvation by faith, but between us we have different definition what faith.
Example Jesus say believe me if you believe me you are save.
It is a command, so you obey Jesus and believe in Him you are save.
To me being believe is consider obey.
To me. These verse below is the manifestation of faith
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
In other word, when you believe and invite Jesus in to your heart, that is what happen, He change you to be like Him. Love and feed the hungry.
To me faith is entrust to the point to let Jesus come and be the King of our life, it cause you bear the fruit
So those verse(feed the hungry etc) is the fruit of faith.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing
Example Jesus say believe me if you believe me you are save.
It is a command, so you obey Jesus and believe in Him you are save.
To me being believe is consider obey.
To me. These verse below is the manifestation of faith
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
In other word, when you believe and invite Jesus in to your heart, that is what happen, He change you to be like Him. Love and feed the hungry.
To me faith is entrust to the point to let Jesus come and be the King of our life, it cause you bear the fruit
So those verse(feed the hungry etc) is the fruit of faith.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing
What is your definition of "faith"? Mine is the Greek meaning of the word.
Then quote and cite the verse where you found that.
The problem with your "understanding" is that to "obey Jesus" is so wide, broad and vague, it would be impossible to know exactly what is required to be saved.
And your claim about what Jesus said to be saved is way off track. But you can refute me by finding the verse that you think exists.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
No one has ever been saved by "inviting Jesus into their heart". So I ask you to cite and quote any verse where you think that is.
You have confused and conflated believing with obeying. They aren't the same.
Have you been taught the principle of "fellowship", which is mentioned 4 times in 3 verses in 1 John 1?
What it is, and what it means, and HOW to be in fellowship?
Then quote and cite the verse where you found that.
The problem with your "understanding" is that to "obey Jesus" is so wide, broad and vague, it would be impossible to know exactly what is required to be saved.
And your claim about what Jesus said to be saved is way off track. But you can refute me by finding the verse that you think exists.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.
No one has ever been saved by "inviting Jesus into their heart". So I ask you to cite and quote any verse where you think that is.
You have confused and conflated believing with obeying. They aren't the same.
Have you been taught the principle of "fellowship", which is mentioned 4 times in 3 verses in 1 John 1?
What it is, and what it means, and HOW to be in fellowship?
You have no concept of how faith and works interact,,,
Romans 3:27 (KJV) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Galatians 2:16 (KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2 (KJV) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (KJV) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
We are saved by works...His Works. If you put any confidence in the flesh you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4 (KJV) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You do know what grace is don't you? (Hint: God's favor to us undeserving sinners).
The case you set forth, allows for individual pride and boasting. "I fed so many poor people, how many did you feed?"
Romans 3:27 (KJV) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Galatians 2:16 (KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2 (KJV) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (KJV) He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
We are saved by works...His Works. If you put any confidence in the flesh you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4 (KJV) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You do know what grace is don't you? (Hint: God's favor to us undeserving sinners).
The case you set forth, allows for individual pride and boasting. "I fed so many poor people, how many did you feed?"
15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Remind in me, as I also remind in you
How Jesus remind in you if you never invite Him.
Remind in me, as I also remind in you
How Jesus remind in you if you never invite Him.
My concept of what faith is also base on these verse
Matt 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Why Jesus say save by faith than Jesus say people save because feed the hungry etc
My conclusion is people that have faith characterized by verse 31-34
Matt 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
Why Jesus say save by faith than Jesus say people save because feed the hungry etc
My conclusion is people that have faith characterized by verse 31-34