We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 15, 2020
622
79
28
#1
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species of being because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. It now seems clear to me that this concept of what the Christians believe today is not what the Scriptures teach.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed.

I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer. This spirit is indeed a life form that is in all Christians and it seems to me one cannot understand and therefore function or be in the spirit if our old nature (which is dead) thinks in it's unrenewed mind that it suppose to be fighting against the new nature. Paul wrote in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:" That's what I'm talking about. I now understand being in Christ is being in the spirit and neither of them (in Christ or in the spirit) has anything to do with the darn flesh. It now seems perfectly clear to walk in the spirit is the same as putting on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,815
804
113
#3
Do we? Then why do we still sin? 😐
The key is to understand that you are a trinity: you are a spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.

Like what the OP stated, its only your spirit that is reborn.

Your job is to renew your mind, which is your soul.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,815
804
113
#5
Because our mind need to be renewed to what is already true in our spirit.

Your mind either agrees with the spirit, or the body.

Its either 2v1 or 1v2, and whichever side with the 2 will win.
 

Gregoryp

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2019
1,097
771
113
#8
Agreed, so why do WE still sin?
Agreed, so why do WE still sin?
because "We" are still focused on the world., its ideas of morals and ethics, its traditions, its systems, its values, tolerating gay marriage, abortion, prosperity theology for example. You have to turn your mind around and totally reject everything the world is offering, it has no value nor prospects for the future.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,978
5,024
113
#9
I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer.
It would be more accurate to say that the power of the sin nature is destroyed by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. But the sin nature is not eradicated. Instead, Paul says "Sin shall not have dominion over you". Which means that Christians can resist the temptations to sin.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,497
806
113
#10
Agreed, so why do WE still sin?
Because it pleases the flesh. We are not immune to the temptation of physical pleasure. An addict always has a dopamine “scar” in the brain from the destruction of unchecked excess serotonin. The trick to staying on the path of righteousness is to keep your eyes focussed on the road ahead. It’s when we are tired and stop. Then we look back or down other paths where people seem to be laughing and having fun. As soon as you say, “Maybe if I just take a peak?” Then your feet are already heading in the wrong direction.
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
995
621
93
#11
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.b

24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Romans 7

I'm going to stick with what Paul states. No one is sinless on the earth, Christian or not. We have a will and we have choices to make.
Further, John states you are liar if you think you have no sin or do not sin. Now why would he say that if a Christian does not ever sin or thinks they have somehow been perfected in the flesh?

We are going to be given new bodies and these old bodies are going to be done away with. And for the record, I am not making an argument for continuing in sin or practicing sin or sinning on purpose with the thought you just ask forgiveness after the fact. I am, however, making an argument for what scripture actually states and not some unbiblical teaching that states we are perfected in our flesh because we most certainly are not.

You cannot apply spiritual principals to something that is dead.
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
995
621
93
#12
It's not the body, but the spirit that has become a new creature. In other words, it's in the spirit that we have become a brand-new species of being because our spirit is totally new and therefore there is not an old sin nature left in us. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.
Our spirits are reborn but we are still in a body that is going to be replaced. I seriously doubt 'most' Christians think there is not change in their inner beings after salvation. It is incorrect to make such a statement unless you can prove beyond a doubt that is so. And you cannot.

Where does scripture teach our spirits are now 'totally new'? Sanctification is a process, not an instant occurrence.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
396
324
63
#13
Our spirits are reborn but we are still in a body that is going to be replaced. I seriously doubt 'most' Christians think there is not change in their inner beings after salvation. It is incorrect to make such a statement unless you can prove beyond a doubt that is so. And you cannot.

Where does scripture teach our spirits are now 'totally new'? Sanctification is a process, not an instant occurrence.
Yes you are right. You are both right but these sorts of discussions always require a wider view of the scripture. We should always end a gospel message with God's grace. Thank you.
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
265
63
#14
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.b

24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Romans 7

I'm going to stick with what Paul states. No one is sinless on the earth, Christian or not. We have a will and we have choices to make.
Further, John states you are liar if you think you have no sin or do not sin. Now why would he say that if a Christian does not ever sin or thinks they have somehow been perfected in the flesh?

We are going to be given new bodies and these old bodies are going to be done away with. And for the record, I am not making an argument for continuing in sin or practicing sin or sinning on purpose with the thought you just ask forgiveness after the fact. I am, however, making an argument for what scripture actually states and not some unbiblical teaching that states we are perfected in our flesh because we most certainly are not.

You cannot apply spiritual principals to something that is dead.
Read on-1 John 3-He who sins, is of the devil 😐
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
396
324
63
#15
Read on-1 John 3-He who sins, is of the devil 😐
The Bible also says that people sin. Paul admits in Romans 7 that he sins still. If we stop reading at a verse that says "He who sins in of the devil." And go no further to elaborate how we are being sanctified, how we are justified, how we are made righteous to God then it's an incomplete picture of the gospel.

So are you of the devil, is Paul of the devil, am I of the devil, or are we made righteous through Christ?
 

Reformyourself

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2020
777
265
63
#16
The Bible also says that people sin. Paul admits in Romans 7 that he sins still. If we stop reading at a verse that says "He who sins in of the devil." And go no further to elaborate how we are being sanctified, how we are justified, how we are made righteous to God then it's an incomplete picture of the gospel.
Paul on Romans 7-not a bio