We forgot how unique and special the apostles are/were.

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
I think in our desire to still want God to speak today and in our desire for God not to be a respecter of persons, I think we often forget how unique, special and empowered the original 12 apostles were/are.

I want to list some of the characteristics of the 12 original apostles to show how incredibly unique and special and called they were. This doesn't make God a respecter of persons and it doesn't mean he doesn't still work today.


The original apostles..
1. They were often overwhelmed beyond strength. 2 Cor 1:8.
2. They despaired of life. 2 Cor 1:8.
3. They had a death sentence written on themselves 2 Cor 1:9
4. Often delivered from death. 2 Cor 1:9.
5. They operated from sincerity and purity. 2 Cor 1:12
6. Had troubled and anguished hearts 2 Cor 2:4
7. Had no rest in their spirit. 2 Cor 2:13
8. Renounced shameful and secret ways. 2 Cor 4:2
9. Didn't distort the message 2 Cor 4:2
10. Viewed themselves as slaves to those they ministered to. 2 Cor 4:5
11. Pressured, persecuted, struck down. 2 Cor 4:9.
12. Carried the death of Jesus in their body. 2 Cor 4:10
13. Given over to death. 2 Cor 4:11
14. Dishonored 1 Cor 4:10.
15.Hungry 1 Cor 4:11
16.Thirsty. 1 Cor 4:11
17.Poorly clothed. 1 Cor 4:11
18.Roughly treated. 1 Cor 4:11
19.Homeless. 1 Cor 4:11
20.Reviled 1 Cor 4:12
21.Imprisoned Phillippians 1:7

The false apostles and teachers.

1. Do it for profit. 2 Cor 2:17
2. Were shameful and deceitful. 2 Cor 4:2
3. Viewed godliness as a way to material gain 1 Timothy 6:5
4. Preaches another Jesus 2 Cor 11:4
5.Considered themselves 'super apostles'. 2 Cor 11:5
6.They tried to regard themselves as on the same level as the apostles. Paul called them false apostles. 2 Cor 11:12-15


So before some so easily go labeling people today as an 'apostle', go take a look at the lists above. Which list do today's 'apostles' most line up with and resemble?

In your desire to see God still 'working and acting today' don't go following people who line up with the second list.

The apostle Paul wrote letters from prison that became books. Today's apostles often write letters from lavish houses and offices that become books that put many in a spiritual prison, as the 'apostle' sits in their cushy chair making millions from their book deal.
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
good post.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#3
The apostle Paul wrote letters from prison that became books. Today's apostles often write letters from lavish houses and offices that become books that put many in a spiritual prison, as the 'apostle' sits in their cushy chair making millions from their book deal.
Yes the differences are stricking, why do people not pay attention to the BIBLE?

Did Jesus die on the cross so you could have millions of dollars or so that million of souls could be saved?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#4
Yes the differences are stricking, why do people not pay attention to the BIBLE?

Did Jesus die on the cross so you could have millions of dollars or so that million of souls could be saved?
People use the term 'apostle' wayy to lightly.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#5
The New Testament DOES NOT speak of any last days revival or restoration of any kind.
In fact the complete opposite is spoken by Jesus, Paul, and Peter.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#6
People use the term 'apostle' wayy to lightly.
So if TEACHERS get judged by a higher standard, what do you think that means for the "apostles" who place themselves above teachers?

James 3

1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Indeed,[a] we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body.

and when did sin become "mistakes"?
 
Mar 11, 2011
887
5
0
#7
A little Dedication to The Prophets, Apostles & The Last 2 Great Witnesses

And of Course Our Lord



Forever in Christ :)
 

WordGaurdian

Senior Member
May 1, 2011
473
8
0
#8
I think in our desire to still want God to speak today and in our desire for God not to be a respecter of persons, I think we often forget how unique, special and empowered the original 12 apostles were/are.

I want to list some of the characteristics of the 12 original apostles to show how incredibly unique and special and called they were. This doesn't make God a respecter of persons and it doesn't mean he doesn't still work today.


The original apostles..
1. They were often overwhelmed beyond strength. 2 Cor 1:8.

2. They despaired of life. 2 Cor 1:8.
3. They had a death sentence written on themselves 2 Cor 1:9

2Co 1:8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
2Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

4. Often delivered from death. 2 Cor 1:9.

5. They operated from sincerity and purity. 2 Cor 1:12
2Co 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

6. Had troubled and anguished hearts 2 Cor 2:4
2Co 2:4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.

7. Had no rest in their spirit. 2 Cor 2:13
2Co 2:13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

8. Renounced shameful and secret ways. 2 Cor 4:2
9. Didn't distort the message 2 Cor 4:2
2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

10. Viewed themselves as slaves to those they ministered to. 2 Cor 4:5
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

11. Pressured, persecuted, struck down. 2 Cor 4:9.

12. Carried the death of Jesus in their body. 2 Cor 4:10
13. Given over to death. 2 Cor 4:11
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2Co 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
2Co 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

14. Dishonored 1 Cor 4:10.
15.Hungry 1 Cor 4:11
16.Thirsty. 1 Cor 4:11
17.Poorly clothed. 1 Cor 4:11
18.Roughly treated. 1 Cor 4:11
19.Homeless. 1 Cor 4:11
20.Reviled 1 Cor 4:12
1Co 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
1Co 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
1Co 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
1Co 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

21.Imprisoned Phillippians 1:7
Php 1:7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

All of this is correct. But you forgot a few...
Here is another for you...
2Co 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
2Co 1:6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
2Co 2:2 For if I make you sorry, who is he then that maketh me glad, but the same which is made sorry by me?
2Co 2:3 And I wrote this same unto you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow from them of whom I ought to rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy is the joy of you all.

To explain it... Apostles literally feel others people temptation, pain and suffering of everyone around them...inside of them. If someone is sad. It burns inside you. If someone is angry. It eats at you. If someone suffers and affliction or is addicted, you must do your best to control yourself lest you become addicted. Those who haven't learn how isn't so fortunate.

It is a great gift cause you understand what others are going through. But yes it is also not so nice, because you are also going through a lot of things you didn't ask for and then you must stand strong.

So when Paul maybe you could understand the above verses a bit better.

The false apostles and teachers.

1. Do it for profit. 2 Cor 2:17
2. Were shameful and deceitful. 2 Cor 4:2
3. Viewed godliness as a way to material gain 1 Timothy 6:5
4. Preaches another Jesus 2 Cor 11:4
5.Considered themselves 'super apostles'. 2 Cor 11:5
6.They tried to regard themselves as on the same level as the apostles. Paul called them false apostles. 2 Cor 11:12-15

Yes, there are false apostles. Unfortunately that is the truth. And false prophets, and false evangelists and false pastors and false teachers. And workers of iniquity who spare not a moment to mention mamon in their ministry. You can easily find that they sell all kinds of things for profit. But even so, by their fruit you shall know them. For when they preach you can sense the fruit of evil on them. That of anger,etc. They call it HOLY ANGER. I suppose my Bible teaches me differently. That Jesus said we should test them and see whether their fruit is the fruit of the Holy Spirit or that of evil. And why would He asks us to do this. For if there were only false prophets and false apostles and false teachers, etc in the world. He asks us to do this, so we may know whom have been send by Him and whom are not. They we may distinguish between good and evil. That we are not let astray. For one would come with miracles and claim he does it in the name of God. And another will come and do the same. But how would we know the difference. For both brought healing. The answer is the answer that Jesus gave. Test their fruits. For anger,etc according to Gal 5 will follow the one which is false, for his source is from evil. And a fountain cannot give salt water if it delivers fresh water. Nor can a fresh water fountain give salt water. For the river in the earth that feeds it is either salty or fresh. So too is it with those who minister. You cannot deviate from your source, regardless what you do.

But as you say... don't be quick to call yourself an apostle...for see the spirits will test you on your words. But the same is true for a prophet, or a teacher. For to each you shall be tested according to what you are titled with by God. And if you title yourself, you shall be tested if you can hold onto that calling. That whom God have called have it build into them to have a way of protecting themselves for each gift. Which of course I will not disclose on an open site. For each gift has a natural born in method of protecting himself according to his calling. And one can often identify a calling based upon this. But this method is also dangerous for the enemy to know.

So if you are unsure of what you're calling is, keep it simple. Just call yourself a child of God according to John 3. For that title all Christians should have. Do not be concerned about titles. For titles are as useful as the instruction and mission that are commissioned in the title. And if you don't understand this, then you cannot live out the title. But if you are that which is the title. God's Holy Spirit will guide you to live it out anyway regardless of your agreement with the title or not. For your calling is born into you, and you cannot give it away or ask for another or achieve it by any means. You are what God made you. And you will be that whether you accept it, or not. You can choose whether or not you will follow Christ and be TRUE or whether you will follow evil and be FALSE. You cannot change what you are just like you cannot change your gender. And no. The people that changed their physical bodies on gender have not changed their spirit also. If God made you male, you're male and will be blessed accordingly. If you are female you are female and will be blessed accordingly.

Your choice is to follow or not to follow God, not what gifts you will or will not have. To each is given according to what God decides. And even if you desire a gift and pray for it. It will still be God deciding whether you will manifest that gift. But your calling is set. And you have been training in it since you were born. It is part of your being. It is a part of your soul. It is a part of every breath you give and everything you sense and the way you think. You won't change what God made you to be.
But you do have a choice...to follow...or not.

And whether you believe in your calling and the calling of others does not make it more or less their calling for it is not you that decided it, but God. God made nothing, just because. Everyone has a specific purpose and a calling. Even if you don't know what it is. Even if you don't understand what the complexities of those callings are. You will still function according to that calling which God gave you.

Identifying the callings is merely a way to warn others what to watch out for, edify others in how they can develop and be useful and comfort others in finding understanding and love from those around them.

Nothing has changed.

But yes. I do agree their are false ones around us. Some sowing deceit through mamon. Others sowing deceit with fear of the very gifts God gave us and taught us by the Holy Spirit.
Some give speculated words and try and drive those around them to anger and even drive themselves to anger in doing so. But always, no matter who they are. The one's that are false can be identified by their fruits. ALWAYS. Why? Cause Jesus said so. And that should be good enough for us all.

And in Galatians 5 it is clear as day what the fruit of evil and good is.

Or did Jesus say in vain My sheep know My voice...

Don't be discourage that their are false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, etc out there. For also there are true Apostles and true Prophets, etc out there and I do believe even on this site. Softly listening to the Holy Spirit...and doing the Will of the Father.And yes God is One. But let us not debate about the little things but rather seek to fulfill the will of God and delve deeper into the heart of God. For it is in simplicity and humbleness and the fear of God that knowledge is found. Not in our own understanding or how many websites we have accessed or how many youtubes we have seen.

But God seeks the pureness of heart, the meekness of Spirit and the willingness to serve.

And yes. Not all apostles die for their faith, but most of them are quite willing to do so. Some call it stubbornness others call it devotion, others call it love.

Blessings to you all.

PS A final thought
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

Each has a purpose. And one is NOT more important than the other. We should learn our own purpose and have grace with those who have a different purpose. For yes, we are ONE body.



[/quote]
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#9
A little Dedication to The Prophets, Apostles & The Last 2 Great Witnesses

And of Course Our Lord



Forever in Christ :)
kind of .... ummm don't have the words for it...

but "take my hand when the lights go out"?

what happened to these verses?

John 8:12
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#10
ok WG this is kind of confusing....going to take out Stillwater's post....

To explain it... Apostles literally feel others people temptation, pain and suffering of everyone around them...inside of them. If someone is sad. It burns inside you. If someone is angry. It eats at you. If someone suffers and affliction or is addicted, you must do your best to control yourself lest you become addicted. Those who haven't learn how isn't so fortunate.
bible verse please?

It is a great gift cause you understand what others are going through. But yes it is also not so nice, because you are also going through a lot of things you didn't ask for and then you must stand strong.

So when Paul maybe you could understand the above verses a bit better.

......

Yes, there are false apostles. Unfortunately that is the truth. And false prophets, and false evangelists and false pastors and false teachers. And workers of iniquity who spare not a moment to mention mamon in their ministry. You can easily find that they sell all kinds of things for profit. But even so, by their fruit you shall know them. For when they preach you can sense the fruit of evil on them. That of anger,etc. They call it HOLY ANGER. I suppose my Bible teaches me differently. That Jesus said we should test them and see whether their fruit is the fruit of the Holy Spirit or that of evil. And why would He asks us to do this. For if there were only false prophets and false apostles and false teachers, etc in the world. He asks us to do this, so we may know whom have been send by Him and whom are not. They we may distinguish between good and evil. That we are not let astray. For one would come with miracles and claim he does it in the name of God. And another will come and do the same. But how would we know the difference. For both brought healing. The answer is the answer that Jesus gave. Test their fruits. For anger,etc according to Gal 5 will follow the one which is false, for his source is from evil. And a fountain cannot give salt water if it delivers fresh water. Nor can a fresh water fountain give salt water. For the river in the earth that feeds it is either salty or fresh. So too is it with those who minister. You cannot deviate from your source, regardless what you do.

But as you say... don't be quick to call yourself an apostle...for see the spirits will test you on your words. But the same is true for a prophet, or a teacher. For to each you shall be tested according to what you are titled with by God. And if you title yourself, you shall be tested if you can hold onto that calling. That whom God have called have it build into them to have a way of protecting themselves for each gift. Which of course I will not disclose on an open site. For each gift has a natural born in method of protecting himself according to his calling. And one can often identify a calling based upon this. But this method is also dangerous for the enemy to know.

So if you are unsure of what you're calling is, keep it simple. Just call yourself a child of God according to John 3. For that title all Christians should have. Do not be concerned about titles. For titles are as useful as the instruction and mission that are commissioned in the title. And if you don't understand this, then you cannot live out the title. But if you are that which is the title. God's Holy Spirit will guide you to live it out anyway regardless of your agreement with the title or not. For your calling is born into you, and you cannot give it away or ask for another or achieve it by any means. You are what God made you. And you will be that whether you accept it, or not. You can choose whether or not you will follow Christ and be TRUE or whether you will follow evil and be FALSE. You cannot change what you are just like you cannot change your gender. And no. The people that changed their physical bodies on gender have not changed their spirit also. If God made you male, you're male and will be blessed accordingly. If you are female you are female and will be blessed accordingly.
but God can and does change people by washing away their sins and giving them a new heart and a new spirit. that is what it means to be born again by the SPIRIT of God.

Your choice is to follow or not to follow God, not what gifts you will or will not have. To each is given according to what God decides. And even if you desire a gift and pray for it. It will still be God deciding whether you will manifest that gift. But your calling is set. And you have been training in it since you were born. It is part of your being. It is a part of your soul. It is a part of every breath you give and everything you sense and the way you think. You won't change what God made you to be.
But you do have a choice...to follow...or not.

And whether you believe in your calling and the calling of others does not make it more or less their calling for it is not you that decided it, but God. God made nothing, just because. Everyone has a specific purpose and a calling. Even if you don't know what it is. Even if you don't understand what the complexities of those callings are. You will still function according to that calling which God gave you.

Identifying the callings is merely a way to warn others what to watch out for, edify others in how they can develop and be useful and comfort others in finding understanding and love from those around them.

Nothing has changed.

But yes. I do agree their are false ones around us. Some sowing deceit through mamon. Others sowing deceit with fear of the very gifts God gave us and taught us by the Holy Spirit.
Some give speculated words and try and drive those around them to anger and even drive themselves to anger in doing so. But always, no matter who they are. The one's that are false can be identified by their fruits. ALWAYS. Why? Cause Jesus said so. And that should be good enough for us all.

And in Galatians 5 it is clear as day what the fruit of evil and good is.

Or did Jesus say in vain My sheep know My voice...

Don't be discourage that their are false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, etc out there. For also there are true Apostles and true Prophets, etc out there and I do believe even on this site. Softly listening to the Holy Spirit...and doing the Will of the Father.And yes God is One. But let us not debate about the little things but rather seek to fulfill the will of God and delve deeper into the heart of God. For it is in simplicity and humbleness and the fear of God that knowledge is found. Not in our own understanding or how many websites we have accessed or how many youtubes we have seen.

But God seeks the pureness of heart, the meekness of Spirit and the willingness to serve.

And yes. Not all apostles die for their faith, but most of them are quite willing to do so. Some call it stubbornness others call it devotion, others call it love.

Blessings to you all.

PS A final thought
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.


Each has a purpose. And one is NOT more important than the other. We should learn our own purpose and have grace with those who have a different purpose. For yes, we are ONE body.
ok :) broke it up and inserted a few comments.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#11
glad you pointed out his bit on a Apostle being a spiritual medium sensitive.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#12
Good post.

Those who discern themselves as important are least in the kingdom of God.

Those who discern themselves as poor are great in the kingdom of God.

And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many (Matthew 20:27-28)

Look at John the baptist, he ate grasshoppers and lived in a tent and there was none greater then him except the Son of man yet he was least in the kingdom of God.
 
Last edited:
Mar 11, 2011
887
5
0
#13
kind of .... ummm don't have the words for it...

but "take my hand when the lights go out"?

what happened to these verses?

John 8:12
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”
Lighten up a little AnandaHya; have you never heard of the expression, its darkest just before the dawn, or of The Night of The Lord, which comes before The Day of The Lord?

You better Take HIS Hand, in The Night of The Lord, or you lose.

Forever in Christ :)
 
J

Jullianna

Guest
#14
By far the best post I've ever read in these threads, Stilly
 
R

Raistlin

Guest
#15
Yet even the Apostles and their message were beginning to be rejected by early Christians.

3 John

9 > I wrote unto the church, but Diotrephes, who loveth to have preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

10 > Wherefore, If i come, i will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.


 
N

Nalu

Guest
#16
God made and called Apostles at a specific time, for a specific set of tasks. There are no more modern day apostles.

There are people who use the term apostle when speaking about themselves and have no idea what the word actually embodies.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#18
God made and called Apostles at a specific time, for a specific set of tasks. There are no more modern day apostles.

There are people who use the term apostle when speaking about themselves and have no idea what the word actually embodies.


i'll put a little more wood on the fire for you Nalu.
call if you need anything.
love zone.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#19
RE:Apostles
Thank God for their faithfulness in bringing us the word,and thank God for the sacrifice
Jesus made for us,giving his life ,so we can have eternal life.
 

WordGaurdian

Senior Member
May 1, 2011
473
8
0
#20
By far the best post I've ever read in these threads, Stilly
the secrets that one bear is not hidden from the eyes. for the eyes are the windows of the soul.

May your Proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ be joyful and may the words that is entrusted to you be multiplied amongst the rightious.

with all love in Christ, it is truly joyous to see you.
May you be blessed