We need to evolve

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A

AlecW

Guest
#1
How many of you out there really think intelligent design is a plausible argument against creationism? I really think Christians need to embrace evolution just as Francis Collins does...to do otherwise is encourage non-Christians to continue to think we are uneducated, brainwashed sheep. Does accepting evolution lead to a slippery slope where God is undermined? I think God can handle that, your faith should too.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#2
He never asked me to do Him any favors. I think God can handle it. Abraham helped God a little once...hows that going?
 
A

AlecW

Guest
#3
I didn't quite get the gist of your reply.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#4
No Christians don't need to evolve in to anything. Our job is to stick to God's word. It's the world's job to evolve our way, not us to them. Becoming more like the world isn't going to make them like us more, so why even try to pander to them?
 
A

AlecW

Guest
#5
Beliefs have changed over time as man learns more from science daily. God gave us brains to decipher the world around us. I just don't think that a literal reading of Genesis really helps us. I am not pandering but merely saying that I don't think science and belief are incompatible.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#6
Beliefs have changed over time as man learns more from science daily. God gave us brains to decipher the world around us. I just don't think that a literal reading of Genesis really helps us. I am not pandering but merely saying that I don't think science and belief are incompatible.
A literal reading of Genesis does help us. It's the depraved minds of people not reconciled to the Father through Jesus that needs to be change. Our Bible is just fine.
 
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#7
How many of you out there really think intelligent design is a plausible argument against creationism? I really think Christians need to embrace evolution just as Francis Collins does...to do otherwise is encourage non-Christians to continue to think we are uneducated, brainwashed sheep. Does accepting evolution lead to a slippery slope where God is undermined? I think God can handle that, your faith should too.
I like to embrace truth. I have nothing against science, but I also know the Lord could have created a world that only appeared, from a scientific point of view, to be billions of years old.
 
A

AlecW

Guest
#8
Why would God do that though? That is create a world that has that appearance? I have struggled with that one too but it just seems that I was trying too hard to defend an indefensible position. I have prayed on this subject quite a bit and I believe that God has given me the answer because I am at peace with believing in evolution and the age of the earth and still maintain my belief in God.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#9
Why would God do that though? That is create a world that has that appearance? I have struggled with that one too but it just seems that I was trying too hard to defend an indefensible position. I have prayed on this subject quite a bit and I believe that God has given me the answer because I am at peace with believing in evolution and the age of the earth and still maintain my belief in God.
What do you believe evolution tells us exactly? What claims does it make that you believe?
 
A

AlecW

Guest
#10
I believe that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. I believe that good science tells us that. I believe that evolution is the most plausible reason for our existence and that God was the architect in that plan. I believe that evolution tells us about our origins from shared ancestry and leads us to new discoveries in science. I used to believe differently but as I get older and more educated it seems that defending a literal origin from Genesis is very problematic and a distraction to learning more and becoming more like Christ.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#11
I believe that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. I believe that good science tells us that. I believe that evolution is the most plausible reason for our existence and that God was the architect in that plan. I believe that evolution tells us about our origins from shared ancestry and leads us to new discoveries in science. I used to believe differently but as I get older and more educated it seems that defending a literal origin from Genesis is very problematic and a distraction to learning more and becoming more like Christ.
Well I think you're confusing some definitions here. We had a LONG debate over the claims of evolution last week in a thread. And EVERY person supporting evolution said, that it has NOTHING to do with explaining how we got here.


Or maybe I had those evolutionists so far back on their heels they had to whittle down their claims of evolution?

Those defending evolution said all it had to do with was the change with in species. Nothing more and nothing less.

So either they were wrong or you have your definitions mixed up.
 
A

AlecW

Guest
#13
Now don't take this the wrong way...we are just talking here..but

Wow, that really did not tell me a thing. Apparently all evolution has to be coined "atheist evolution"???
And cosmology really isn't the main topic right now.

I think I'll stick with Francis Collins on this one.

Scientist Francis Collins on evolution science faith religion genome gene language of God- Beliefnet.com

Is this approaching the "essential" beliefs level? I sure hope not because I would like to get some different responses on this.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#14
Now don't take this the wrong way...we are just talking here..but

Wow, that really did not tell me a thing. Apparently all evolution has to be coined "atheist evolution"???
And cosmology really isn't the main topic right now.

I think I'll stick with Francis Collins on this one.

Scientist Francis Collins on evolution science faith religion genome gene language of God- Beliefnet.com

Is this approaching the "essential" beliefs level? I sure hope not because I would like to get some different responses on this.
So all the evolutionists in that thread we had last week said that evolution doesn't explain our origins. It just explains transition within species. But here you are saying it DOES explain origins.

How can I possibly believe a system with so many people who can't agree on some core concepts here???

The Bible is less confusing. God did it. He spoke. It happened.

Feel free to fill your mind with the muddled and confusing mess that is 'evolution'. They obviously can't agree on a definition.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
#15
Alec, I am called a heretic for my beliefs and that is only because others hold "the absolute truth" and that is why we have 38,000 different Christian churches. Look at Genesis 1 and 2 closely. On the 6th day God created male and female. On the 7th day He rested. Later....this is where billions of years could have occurred, we just don't know and science could be correct in saying iit is billions of years old. In Genesis 2 God FORMED Adam (Adam being the name of the man/soul he formed from the dust). From Adam to Jesus was 4000 years. Since Jesus to present time is 2000+ years. Iin the year 2304 BC +/- 11 years, the scriptures data places the Flood. Ref: The Date of Noah?s Flood - Answers in Genesis That is what is known through the scriptures which is also verfied through historical documents and texts.. This knowledge gives me assurance that science confirms what is in our book of scriptures. Science is validating our scriptures and validating history books. We believe most history texts and archaeology finds. These appear for the most part not to contradict the scriptures. I do not believe the THEORY of evolution. It is a theory that does not jive with scriptures. Let me know if this helped you. OK?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#16
i think Christians should be able to intelligent converse and tell people about evolution but they don't have to actually believe in its truth. It is useful to understand where other people are coming from. I understand the concepts behind Buddhism, Hinduism, and some Islamic tenets but I don't believe they are true paths to God. Beginning/ "evolution" of life by abiogenesis and some things science propose are in the same category. Useful information on how others see the world but still theories that have been proven false by my own life and observations. there is a difference between natural selection and the entire Evolutionary theory as presented today.
 
Last edited:
Jan 18, 2011
1,117
5
0
#17
How can I possibly believe a system with so many people who can't agree on some core concepts here???
It's not that they don't agree, but you haven't quite got the details worked out yet. Here's a brief summary that will make it as clear as possible in a short space.

Abiogensis is the hypothetical idea that the first simple life form on Earth originated in some way from inanimate matter. This idea is only a hypothesis; it doesn't have experimental backing. It is also not a part of the theory of evolution (though obviously, the theory of evolution picks up immediately after abiogenesis is hypothesized to occur).

The theory of evolution is what is purported to tell us what happens to life once it has started up, from just after abiogenesis occurs to the present time. The theory of evolution details the history and mechanism of how existing life is said to change or evolve, once that life already exists.

So, does evolution purport to tell us "how we got here?" Well, that just depends on what you mean by "how we got here." In a sense, it doesn't, since life is said to have originated with abiogenesis, not evolution. In a different sense, evolution can be said to be purporting to tell us how we got here, in terms of the evolution of life from its simple beginnings to its current state. Note that in this second sense, evolution claims to tell us how we (humans, and other modern life) got here, but not how life originated in the first place, which is abiogenesis, not evolution.

As you can see, it's easy to see a contradiction about "how we got here" if it's not made clear what you are specifically talking about. But that's not an actual contradiction, just sloppy use of language.

I think this will make it a bit more clear for you.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#18
I read the bible, and the most natural reading leans YEC. As much as I might try, I can't bend scriptural account of creation, to fit man's account of creation. I put my trust in God and his word.

 
A

AlecW

Guest
#19
Thanks for the replies. First, that some people supposedly concede to evolution from a limited perspective (change within species) is not really a concession at all nor is it the backbone of evolution. Most people with this view refer to it as adaptation rather than evolution. I speak of evolution in the Darwinian sense of the word backed by evidence of the age of the universe.

Now, within the scientific community, there really aren't a whole lot of competing views on the evolution contrary tso one previous statement. However, there are thousands of competing views on scripture (that's why they call them denominations (not "common" denominations :)).

I deplore it when people try to denigrate evolution by trying to say that it is merely a "theory," like someone might have in a loosely established basis for a suspect at a crime scene. You all should know that the scientific definition of the word theory is entirely about evidence and there is a lot of it.

We don't have to believe everything in it's literal form and we don't have to be heretics for taking that view (we can leave that to Muslims I guess. Again, God gave us brains to unravel his creation, a creation from a very simple, humble begining. Why such an outcry, to the downfall of Christianity, in not accepting something that we can marvel at in His creation?

There are numerous things that we do not believe about the scriptures and no longer practice, why hold on so tenaciously to this one?

Peace
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#20
There are numerous things that we do not believe about the scriptures and no longer practice, why hold on so tenaciously to this one?

Peace
Is scripture inspired?

Is it infallible?

Is it inerrent?