We the new chosen people, are Jews no longer chosen people?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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I think many of these posts are getting completely off track as they work on the flesh of the nations rather than on what God wants us to learn about Him. What God sees, what God wants us to know is that we are loved by him as humans not by any separate definition the world gives. God wants us to know his truth, and if we get so stuck on separating ourselves into earthly groups, we lose track of that.

God created a special group because all groups or nations made up an idol god and said that god belonged to their nation. So he took a human from one of these nations, separated him, and made the true God that nation's God. What we are to see of that is who the true God is and how God works with man. We are not to get so caught up on defining the earthly qualities of that nation he created, we are to keep our eyes on God and God's truth.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Kind of hard to be a Premill if you don't have authentic Jews to backup your view that involves them. Do you think GOD doesn't want us to know The Kingdom is NOW?
 
Dec 29, 2021
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The question isn't so much "were Jews in the Bible?" The question is how do you know that anyone alive today that calls themselves a Jew has any genuine continuity with Biblical Jews? Some Muslims even refer to themselves as the true Jews and the true Israel. By what measure should we sort true claims from false claims?

Who are Jews? Who is Israel? On what scriptural basis do you determine whether someone's claims are true?
For one, 70 AD was about Jerusalem and the Temple, not all of Israel. So not every Jew in 70 AD left Israel and their lineage continued till this very day. And the ones who did leave, the true lineage, went through Denmark to South America and to New York in the early 1700's, unlike the German Jews who came to the USA in 1940's.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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Kind of hard to be a Premill if you don't have authentic Jews to backup your view that involves them. Do you think GOD doesn't want us to know The Kingdom is NOW?
The kingdom of God and knowing all about it and the rules and policies that govern it does not require knowing the truth of the Lord as we are given it through telling us about the Jewish race that God created as a nation with God as their God.
 

cdan2

Active member
Dec 2, 2021
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yeah I do look things up study every day.

here’s a sample of what I’m saying which i don’t really think you understood
Oh, I understand. I just don't think you do.

You keep throwing out those English translated scriptures wit "the Law" like you know what it is. Tell me, what is the Hebrew term translated as "Law" in your Bible?

Hint: look it up in something other than Strong's.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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For one, 70 AD was about Jerusalem and the Temple, not all of Israel. So not every Jew in 70 AD left Israel and their lineage continued till this very day. And the ones who did leave, the true lineage, went through Denmark to South America and to New York in the early 1700's, unlike the German Jews who came to the USA in 1940's.
That still doesn't answer the question of determining who has genuine Jewish lineage. If someone is a modern, practicing religious Jew, that does not necessarily indicate that they have Biblical Jewish ancestry. If a Moslem, a Talmudic Jew, and a Christian all claim to have Jewish ancestry, how would we determine which claims are true compared to which claims are false?

If each of them denied the attested bloodline of the other, how would fairly rule out the presence of Biblical Jewish blood? Alternatively, how would we evaluate and demonstrate that their denial is incorrect?
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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You Premills can only be literal with everything because you don't have any HOLY SPIRIT Oil in you.
Romans 14: 4Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Since you argue, since you pass judgment at the drop of a hat, I conclude you're only here to stir the pot.
We're done.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
That still doesn't answer the question of determining who has genuine Jewish lineage. If someone is a modern, practicing religious Jew, that does not necessarily indicate that they have Biblical Jewish ancestry. If a Moslem, a Talmudic Jew, and a Christian all claim to have Jewish ancestry, how would we determine which claims are true compared to which claims are false?

If each of them denied the attested bloodline of the other, how would fairly rule out the presence of Biblical Jewish blood? Alternatively, how would we evaluate and demonstrate that their denial is incorrect?

We would know because there are scientific markers, there are ways now to know exactly where people are from.
 

cdan2

Active member
Dec 2, 2021
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Google 613 Laws Torah
Actually I've read those 613 so called "laws" in their original (but translated to English) format. I know where they are from. Like I said earlier, they are "biblically based," but not actually biblical. They are from the Talmud, and are the later rabbi's interpretations of Torah.

Since you (correctly, I might add) brought up "Torah," have you ever looked past Strong's for the meaning of the term? Strong, while the work he oversaw borders on genius in its' organization, is limited and often wrong or incomplete in its definitions. He tended to follow the catholic (universal) model in his interpretations.

My Vine's/Unger/White dictionary defines torah as "law; direction; instruction." In fact, and this is born out in the V/U/W explanation, law is the lesser meaning; not even the original meaning as "The "instruction" given to Moses became known as "the law" or "the direction" ... ." As for its' purpose, "God had communicated "the law" that Israel might observe and live." This is in accordance with, and occurs several times in Torah:

Deuteronomy 30:20 loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

If Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible) were actually "law," it's a strange way to write it: stories of the history of God's people; examples of faith and failure, good and evil; and the language is covenantal, not legal. Covenants say "if you will do this, I will do this, bt if this then that." Laws just say "don't." Now it is true the term does contain some connotation of "law." And there are some commandments in Torah that should (if one is smart) be taken as "law." But nowhere near 613. Those rabbinical interpretations at times get 2 or three "laws" from the same fragment of a verse. It only "became" the "law" after the rabbis in the diaspora got control over Judaism.

Torah is God's instructions for us in holy living. Holy means "set apart," and obedience to His instructions is what sets us apart from the world. A better term for "law" is the Hebrew "hoq." Pronounced "hoke" it means "statute; prescription; rule; law; regulation." But a loving God gave us instructions, not just a list of "laws" by which to live and conduct our affairs. The later rabbis, fearing Judaism would fall apart in the diaspora gave the Jews 613 "laws" by which to control their lives from waking up to going to sleep. Along with those "laws" came many fences- extra laws to protect the laws, basically. Also came a lot more traditions and daily rituals. That's the difference: laws control people, instructions guide them. Laws remove free will, instructions protect it as a basic right granted by God.

As "laws" the catholic (universal) church and the church fathers could say they were meant only for the Jews to show us lucky Christians that no one can keep the law perfectly (and thus no Jews, who most hated with a passion could therefore be saved- like they or anyone can say who is or is not). But as instructions well, those just might apply to everyone. And that would have cramped the style of most of the early church leadership most severely! If meant only for "those unlucky Jews" and not for us then we can do as we please. And if you know history, they pretty much did just that!

One does not need to become rabbinically Jewish. As I said, contemporary Judaism is nothing like that of any 1st cen Judaism. And yes, there were several sects and some "Judaism's" that were really so different they could be called another Judaism in the 1st cen AD. You are probably familiar with one of these- the Samaritans. So if someone wants to become "Jewish," my first question would be "What kind?" However as a Christian, regardless of denomination, if you are "saved" then you are grafted onto the Hebrew rootstalk. I would therefore recommend at least a decent understanding of Torah, the 1st 5 books, also called the Pentateuch. God's instructions are timeless.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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cdan2

Active member
Dec 2, 2021
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Wow, check this out:
https://www.quora.com/Did-God-chang...e&__sncid__=23673019422&__snid3__=32440297590

"Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, fulfilled the old covenant- death for sin. This was mercy for our unrighteousness, our sins have been wiped clean by His blood. To uphold the old covenant we’d have to reject Christs fulfillment of it and the new covenant He brought to us."
Bull.

So if the "Old Covenant" is so repugnant to you, would you say the "Ten Commandments" are also done away with; are they also abhorrent to your theology?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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i didn't write this either by it is relevant:


Notice that the Law and the Commandments are in the "heart", regarding the New Covenant.
Why?
Because the Law is a curse, when it has dominion.... and this is why "Christ came to redeem you from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

Also, the Law and Commandments, can't make you righteous, or give you righteousness, so, that is why you can keep them all as Paul did......as he told you......"i am blameless in the Law'......yet, he would have died and not gone to Heaven, if that is all he had done.
Also in Philippians he continues to tell us that not only did he keep all the LAW, but he was a very special Jew.
And then he says.....>"see all that".......>"see all that that i did, and that i am".......>Its all "DUNG".
All the lawkeeping, all the rest of it........"DUNG". + "DUNG" + "DUNG".
Why?
Because you have to be born again to go to Heaven, and the Law and the Commandments and all the good works you can ever do, can not cause your Spirit to be born again.

"you must be born again"...if you want to go to heaven, and the only way that happens is if GOD gives you the "new Birth" and you become "the Righteousness of God, in Christ"......a "NEW Creation".

How do you know that the Law, the Commandments...water baptism, and all your good works, can not save you?

Its because what Saves you died on THE CROSS.........and none of those did.

See it?

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...urn-to-the-garden-of-eden.45873/#post-1231810
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Bull.

So if the "Old Covenant" is so repugnant to you, would you say the "Ten Commandments" are also done away with; are they also abhorrent to your theology?
maybe he realizes there is an old broken covenant and another God promised to make in the future ?

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Or Maybe he just doesn’t want to be blind ?

“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬

maybe he sees the truth of Christ saves and the law of Moses condemns ?

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

maybe some folks want life rather than death and are willing to hear what Jesus was actually saying will save us ?
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Scripture tells us we are chosen. 1 Peter 2: 8-9 "………They (Jews) stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy “

"Those who belong to Christ are God’s chosen people: “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise” (Galatians 3:26-29).

We are the new chosen people, but God has not rejected his people, they rejected God.

Romans 11:1-2 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?"

We are to condemn the rejection of Christ that many Jews have done, but we are not to judge the people who reject Christ—we are to feel sorry for them. The Lord still blesses them for being the people he chose to show the idol worshiping nations who he is and how he works. We are asked to bless them for doing this. That does not mean that we are not to judge their acts of denying Christ.
I’ve seen enough of these discussions to know that not everyone necessarily agrees with Paul’s teaching on this in Romans.

I favor the perspective that you’re either in Christ or you’re not, bringing the the total number of types of people in the world to two. There are no shortcuts, no exceptions, or alternative routes to God.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Oh, I understand. I just don't think you do.

You keep throwing out those English translated scriptures wit "the Law" like you know what it is. Tell me, what is the Hebrew term translated as "Law" in your Bible?

Hint: look it up in something other than Strong's.
not interested in a translation debate
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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I’ve seen enough of these discussions to know that not everyone necessarily agrees with Paul’s teaching on this in Romans.

I favor the perspective that you’re either in Christ or you’re not, bringing the the total number of types of people in the world to two. There are no shortcuts, no exceptions, or alternative routes to God.
amen one way alone

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6‬ ‭
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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We would know because there are scientific markers, there are ways now to know exactly where people are from.
according to the flesh there is but that is meaningless to God genetics doesn’t identify Israelites , faith in Christ identifies Gods elect