We will be resurrected bodily one day in the likeness of Christ.

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ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#21
Nov 30, 2012
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#21
Jason0047 said:
Maybe you wrote it by mistake. But I prefer you calling me brother. I am a white male (Who is engaged to a female) and my name is actually Jason (Which is a male name).



Thank you for sharing that story. It is good to know. For in every false relgiion, people will always find a replacement of some kind for the real Jesus Christ. Roman Catholicism replaces Jesus as mediator by praying to Mary so that Mary can pray to Jesus for you. Why take the risk? Why not just pray to Jesus directly? Because they don't want the real Jesus. Then there are other false religions that just change the nature of who Jesus Christ is (Whereby they attack His deity or eternal nature as God).
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Except we do pray directly to Jesus, which you also ignore.

Why do I have to be Jewish to be perfect? Why does my perfected biology have to be Hebrew? Because they have the same fallen flesh as I. You see, I don't believe we will be resurrected Hebrew, German, Asian, Mexican, etc. I believe we will be resurrected as children of the Most High, the Bride of Christ transfigured and in that likeness we will be like Christ, though not equal.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#22
Jul 22, 2014
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#22
ThomistColin said:
Except we do pray directly to Jesus, which you also ignore.
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Jesus is not good enough to pray to alone (as your one and only mediator), so you need to seek out other means of communication to Him (Which is wrong). Jesus is just one of the many deities who can help you. It's the worship of many gods and it is wrong; Also, bowing down to statues is wrong and you know it.

Why do I have to be Jewish to be perfect? Why does my perfected biology have to be Hebrew? Because they have the same fallen flesh as I. You see, I don't believe we will be resurrected Hebrew, German, Asian, Mexican, etc. I believe we will be resurrected as children of the Most High, the Bride of Christ transfigured and in that likeness we will be like Christ, though not equal.
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Let's follow the logic here.

Is Jesus a Hebrew? Yes or no?

Did you say we will be transfigured in the likeness of Jesus Christ?

If you are in the likeness of Jesus Christ, then you will be Hebrew because Jesus' flesh is of Hebrew descent.

In additiion, Abraham was said that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars. This is made possible by Jesus Christ being the Promised Seed (See Galatians 3:16, 29). in other words, Abraham will have descendants by Jesus Christ. But if we are resurrected with ONLY our own bodies of flesh that we have currently, we will not really be descendants of Abraham. We can only be descendants of Abraham (Like the number of the stars) if we are of the seed of Abraham physically. Right now we are not of the seed of Abraham physically. We are only spiritually of that seed right now. But in the bodily resurrection we will be Abraham's descendants thru Jesus Christ. For how else can you explain Abraham having descendants that are innumerable?
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#23
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,173
113
#23
Jason0047 said:
Right now believing Gentiles are spiritual Jews, Israelites, or Hebrews (See Galatians 3:16 about the "Promised Seed" and Galatians 3:29 about how we are heirs of the seed of Abraham in Christ Jesus).

Anyways, in the bodily resurrection (See Revelation 20), certain believers will rise physically from the grave before the Millennium and certain believers will rise bodily after the Millennium for the Eternal New Earth. Both those living during the Millennium and those living after during the Eternal New Earth will be made up of believing Jews and Gentiles thru out all of time. However, seeing we will be resurrected by the flesh of Jesus Christ and seeing Jesus is a Hebrew (Jew) (or Israelite) physically, we will have a physical body like Jesus Christ and be a Hebrew, Jew, or Israelite like Him, too. Yes, Jesus is born of Adam, but Jesus is also a Hebrew (of the seed of Abram). We will be resurrected in the likeness of Christ's resurrection and have the same flesh as Christ does. Jesus is physically of Hebrew descent; And the Scriptures essentially say that Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. Meaning, Christ is the first of many that will follow after him (And his likeness).
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I don't understand two resurrections of Gods people? I thought there was only one at Jesus return before the 1000 years. You are saying there are two one before and one after? Please explain how or what Bible verses say two righteous resurrections.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#24
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
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#24
Jason0047 said:
Jesus is not good enough to pray to alone (as your one and only mediator), so you need to seek out other means of communication to Him (Which is wrong). Jesus is just one of the many deities who can help you. It's the worship of many gods and it is wrong; Also, bowing down to statues is wrong and you know it.



Let's follow the logic here.

Is Jesus a Hebrew? Yes or no?

Did you say we will be transfigured in the likeness of Jesus Christ?

If you are in the likeness of Jesus Christ, then you will be Hebrew because Jesus' flesh is of Hebrew descent.

In additiion, Abraham was said that his descendants will be as numerous as the stars. This is made possible by Jesus Christ being the Promised Seed (See Galatians 3:16, 29). in other words, Abraham will have descendants by Jesus Christ. But if we are resurrected with ONLY our own bodies of flesh that we have currently, we will not really be descendants of Abraham. We can only be descendants of Abraham (Like the number of the stars) if we are of the seed of Abraham physically. Right now we are not of the seed of Abraham physically. We are only spiritually of that seed right now. But in the bodily resurrection we will be Abraham's descendants thru Jesus Christ. For how else can you explain Abraham having descendants that are innumerable?
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No, we simply believe that our brothers and sisters in Christ pray for us here on earth and in Heaven, first off. They can perform no miracles, for only God can do that.

And you are following a heresy of Judaizing the faith, believing the Jew to be inherently better than the Gentile.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#25
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
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#25
ThomistColin said:
No, we simply believe that our brothers and sisters in Christ pray for us here on earth and in Heaven, first off. They can perform no miracles, for only God can do that.
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If you pray to another entity other than God, it is making that entity out to be like a god (Which is a replacement of God's exclusive right). Praying to the dead is forbidden in the Bible.

And you are following a heresy of Judaizing the faith, believing the Jew to be inherently better than the Gentile.
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Everyone is one in Jesus Christ. There is no Jew and there is no Gentile spiritually. Spiritually we are all one body. In the bodily resurrection we all be one in Jesus Christ, too. We will be made into his likeness. Jesus is a Jew. He will never stop being of Jewish descent. If you have a problem with Jesus being a Jew, take it up with Him. For Jesus Himself said that salvation is of the Jews.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#26
#26
Wait!!! This is a happy thing. WE get to eat- Jesus did. Never get fat!!! Never get old!!!! Never get sick!!! Praise God, we shall see Him and be like He is!!!!!!!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#27
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
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#27
JesusLives said:
I don't understand two resurrections of Gods people? I thought there was only one at Jesus return before the 1000 years. You are saying there are two one before and one after? Please explain how or what Bible verses say two righteous resurrections.
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Revelation 20:4-6
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

In other words, the Bible labels the 1st Resurrection as the "Resurrection of Life" (Which takes place at two different time periods or in two different phases). John 5:29 alludes to the 2nd Resurrection which is the "Resurrection of Damnation."

To paraphrase the above:

1st Resurrection (i.e. The "Resurrection of Life")

Phase 1 - Those on the thrones (Abraham, etc.) and souls of them beheaded for Jesus (Who did not take the Mark) will LIVE and reign with Christ for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4).

Phase 2 - The rest of the dead (not categorized in Phase 1) will not LIVE until the 1,000 years is finished (Revelation 20:5).​

2nd Resurrection (i.e. The "Resurrection of Damnation")

The Second Resurrection is the "Resurrection of Damnation." These types of individuals will be resurrected bodily so as to be destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Which then after all the wicked are destroyed (And justice has been carried out), then death will be the last enemy to be destroyed).
 
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ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#28
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#28
Jason0047 said:
If you pray to another entity other than God, it is making that entity out to be like a god (Which is a replacement of God's exclusive right). Praying to the dead is forbidden in the Bible.



Everyone is one in Jesus Christ. There is no Jew and there is no Gentile spiritually. Spiritually we are all one body. In the bodily resurrection we all be one in Jesus Christ, too. We will be made into his likeness. Jesus is a Jew. He will never stop being of Jewish descent. If you have a problem with Jesus being a Jew, take it up with Him. For Jesus Himself said that salvation is of the Jews.
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Salvation was of the Jews. You missed the "but the hour is coming and has come..." That but means that it is no longer of the Jews, but of Christ. I have no problem with Jesus being a Jew, I have a problem with elevating an entire race of people over another when Scripture is clear that we are all equal in the Kingdom of God.

Also, the word "pray" means to ask reverently. It does not mean to have a conversation with a deity, that is what we call a colloquial definition, meaning the common use of a word. That is not the original meaning. That's why under the original understanding of the word, to ask another to pray to God for you (such as if you are sick or a family member/friend is sick) you would be praying to your friend for their prayers to God. So in the same way, we ask our brothers and sisters in Heaven to pray for us as we pray directly to God also.

This is why in the litanies (the litany of the sacred heart of Jesus, the litany of Mary, or the litany of Saints) we always say to our brothers and sisters something like, "Mary, Mother of God, pray for us" or "St. Thomas Aquinas, pray for us" but when we speak of God it is "Lord, hear our prayer." For it is our prayers to Christ in the end. You are the one who believes the divide of death and life among the brethren is so strictly a wall, while Jesus Himself said that God is not a god of the dead, but of the living, referring to the fact that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all still alive in Heaven.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#29
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#29
Jason0047 said:
Revelation 20:4-6
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

In other words, the Bible labels the 1st Resurrection as the "Resurrection of Life" (Which takes place at two different time periods or in two different phases). John 5:29 alludes to the 2nd Resurrection which is the "Resurrection of Damnation."

To paraphrase the above:

1st Resurrection (i.e. The "Resurrection of Life")

Phase 1 - Those on the thrones (Abraham, etc.) and souls of them beheaded for Jesus (Who did not take the Mark) will LIVE and reign with Christ for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4).

Phase 2 - The rest of the dead (not categorized in Phase 1) will not LIVE until the 1,000 years is finished (Revelation 20:5).​

2nd Resurrection (i.e. The "Resurrection of Damnation")

The Second Resurrection is the "Resurrection of Damnation." These types of individuals will be resurrected bodily so as to be destroyed in the Lake of Fire (Which then after all the wicked are destroyed (And justice has been carried out), then death will be the last enemy to be destroyed).
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Tell me, how is double jeopardy Justice? First the damned go to Hell, then they get resurrected to be thrown into a Lake of Fire for eternal torment worse than Hell... Never understood that interpretation.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#30
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#30
ThomistColin said:
Tell me, how is double jeopardy Justice? First the damned go to Hell, then they get resurrected to be thrown into a Lake of Fire for eternal torment worse than Hell... Never understood that interpretation.
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Yeah, I do not believe in Eternal Torment. I believe God will resurrect the damned and He will destroy them in the Lake of Fire (Both body and soul). For Jesus said, fear him who destroys both soul and body in Hell (Translated: Gehenna, i.e. the Lake of Fire). This would even include the devil and his minions, too. There are many verses that talk about this. For the word "forever" does not always mean "forever" in the Bible. God is good. He is not evil. He will not torture people forever for a finite amount of crimes.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#31
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#31
ThomistColin said:
Salvation was of the Jews. You missed the "but the hour is coming and has come..." That but means that it is no longer of the Jews, but of Christ. I have no problem with Jesus being a Jew, I have a problem with elevating an entire race of people over another when Scripture is clear that we are all equal in the Kingdom of God.
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You must have missed what I wrote then. We are equal in the Kingdom of God. There is no Jew or Gentile with believers today or tomorrow. Everyone will be one in Christ Jesus. We will be like Him in the resurrection.

Also, the word "pray" means to ask reverently. It does not mean to have a conversation with a deity, that is what we call a colloquial definition, meaning the common use of a word. That is not the original meaning. That's why under the original understanding of the word, to ask another to pray to God for you (such as if you are sick or a family member/friend is sick) you would be praying to your friend for their prayers to God. So in the same way, we ask our brothers and sisters in Heaven to pray for us as we pray directly to God also.

This is why in the litanies (the litany of the sacred heart of Jesus, the litany of Mary, or the litany of Saints) we always say to our brothers and sisters something like, "Mary, Mother of God, pray for us" or "St. Thomas Aquinas, pray for us" but when we speak of God it is "Lord, hear our prayer." For it is our prayers to Christ in the end. You are the one who believes the divide of death and life among the brethren is so strictly a wall, while Jesus Himself said that God is not a god of the dead, but of the living, referring to the fact that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all still alive in Heaven.
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I don't feel you are really interested in seeing otherwise in Scripture at this time. So I will let the matter rest for now. I made my case, and I stand behind it.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#32
#32
Jason0047 said:
Yeah, I do not believe in Eternal Torment. I believe God will resurrect the damned and He will destroy them in the Lake of Fire (Both body and soul). For Jesus said, fear him who destroys both soul and body in Hell (Translated: Gehenna, i.e. the Lake of Fire). This would even include the devil and his minions, too. There are many verses that talk about this. For the word "forever" does not always mean "forever" in the Bible. God is good. He is not evil. He will not torture people forever for a finite amount of crimes.
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No Jason, God IS merciful but He is just. Jesus provided the way out for us. Our spirit and soul are eternal no matter where they go. God isn't evil He gave us the most precious thing - His Son. Forever means forever.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#33
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#33
Blain said:
Why are you so offended? and why bring up that Christ was decended of a - well im not going to say that word but of Rahab? What on earth does that have anything to do with us not being Jews?
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It is called anti-Semitism.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#34
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#34
JesusLives said:
I don't understand two resurrections of Gods people? I thought there was only one at Jesus return before the 1000 years. You are saying there are two one before and one after? Please explain how or what Bible verses say two righteous resurrections.
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There are actually three resurrections...

One at Christ's coming for the saints.
One at the end of the Millennium for the Last Great Day
One more of the incorrigibly wicked when they are cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#35
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#35
psalm6819 said:
No Jason, God IS merciful but He is just. Jesus provided the way out for us. Our spirit and soul are eternal no matter where they go.
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No, that is a false doctrine that began at the garden...

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

God says that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23)

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The Devil says no, you won't die, you have an immortal soul. What did Christ say about the soul...

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Now who does everyone believe here?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#36
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#36
psalm6819 said:
No Jason, God IS merciful but He is just. Jesus provided the way out for us. Our spirit and soul are eternal no matter where they go. God isn't evil He gave us the most precious thing - His Son. Forever means forever.
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What Scripture says all souls are eternal? Actually, Jesus says I have come to give you life and so that you can have it more abundantly. In fact, if our souls are eternal, then why did God prevent Adam and Eve from eating of the Tree of Life?
 
T

truelawofGod

Guest
#37
#37
There is no scipture in the old or new testament.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#38
#38
psalm6819 said:
No Jason, God IS merciful but He is just. Jesus provided the way out for us. Our spirit and soul are eternal no matter where they go. God isn't evil He gave us the most precious thing - His Son. Forever means forever.
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Man is not eternal why does the bible call it a second death ?

Why do we have to fight for eternal life ?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#39
#39
john832 said:
There are actually three resurrections...

One at Christ's coming for the saints.
One at the end of the Millennium for the Last Great Day
One more of the incorrigibly wicked when they are cast into the Lake of Fire.
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only two resurrection #2 and #3 are the same second resurrection spoken of in revelation

curse is he that cometh in the second resurrection
 
T

truelawofGod

Guest
#40
#40
If you believe in Jesus you are a spiritual jew for we are grafted into them not them into us.
 
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