What About Saved by Grace? Update: Please Read.

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SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#61
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
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#61
SoulWeaver said:
A person being born of water is person being born by their mother (water breaking aka physical birth).
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@throughfaith

So consider in context and what Nicodemus said previously, "born of water and of Spirit" that Jesus refers to, makes much more sense refering to physical vs spiritual birth, and not visible symbolism in water baptism vs invisible birth that would happen during a water baptism.
 
L

lastofall

Senior Member
#62
Aug 26, 2014
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#62
[for me anyway] by not including v10 with v8-9 it leaves the matter unfinished and misunderstood, because v10 is what makes the matter clear:

Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#63
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#63
Nehemiah6 said:
FALSE. Your accusation about a false message in the OP is itself false. And then to go ahead is say that every church which preaches this is *false* means that you are A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING. Therefore your screen name should be "throughunbelief".
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Yes yes you made a funny word play on my name 🤣 . The Gospel is found specifically in 1 cor 1.15 -1-4 . Rom 1 . 16 . Rom 10 ,9.10 ect . No mention of repentance in John , Galations , Romans ( save one place ,but its a synonym for ' Faith '. All these books and others are actually , directly on Soteriology and they don't mention the order as in Acts 2.38 as How we are saved . The definition of how we are saved . The description, definition and appropriating the Gospel . And your qoing to take a transitional book about THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES ?
 
J

JBTN

Active member
#64
Feb 11, 2020
211
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#64
lastofall said:
[for me anyway] by not including v10 with v8-9 it leaves the matter unfinished and misunderstood, because v10 is what makes the matter clear:

Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
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Lastofall

I agree completely.

Just to reinforce what you have already stated, the word “for“ at the beginning of verse 10 is the greek word ”gar.” Strong’s Concordance (#1063) says it is a conjunction used to express cause, explanation, inference or continuation. So this greek word indicates that verse 10 is an explanation of the previous statement.

Also, as you pointed out, we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works. The timing here is clear, our creation in Christ Jesus precedes our good works.

Another quick point. People often look at the phrase ”not of works” and try to divide works up into different categories: boastful works, works of obedience, good works, etc. Doesn’t the statement “that not of yourselves” render this pointless?

JBTN
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#65
Jul 8, 2018
8,314
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#65
Nehemiah6 said:
The "natural man" -- the unsaved sinner -- is perfectly capable of comprehending the plain Gospel. If it were not so, then Christ would not have said this: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

That command pre-supposes that all men can understand the plain Gospel -- that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their justification. Those men gathered in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost were all natural men -- all sinners in need of the Savior.

But Peter preached the Gospel to them and told them that they would receive the Holy Ghost only after they repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is only AFTER that that men have the indwelling Holy Spirit to understand all things spiritual.

Therefore you are misunderstanding and misapplying what is said in 1 Corinthians 2 about the natural man and the spiritual man. You have refused to give up your false belief in the face of probably hundreds of rebuttals.
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Colossians 1:23, says that the gospel WAS (past tense) preached to every creature which is under heaven.

The natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14. Believing in the gospel, which is about the things of the Spirit, eliminates the natural man from believing the gospel.

Saved, in Greek, means "delivered". Baptism is an answer to a good conscience, 1 Pet 3:21. which saves (delivers) the spiritual man from the guilt of a bad conscience, and it does not deliver him eternally. He has already been delivered (Saved) eternally.

Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to "the lost sheep, (who are regenerated babes in Christ) of the house of Jacob"
 
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