What about the Roman Catholic religion and her daughters?
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Sure.
Relics | Catholic Answers
Also, keep in mind that 2 Tim. 3:16-17 doesn't mean what you think it does. Scripture is certainly profitable for the Christian's faith. But that doesn't mean it's all we need. Think of it this way, I can tell you that drinking a good amount of water everyday is profitable for your health, but if you only drink water and don't do things like... eat food, or exercise, or get plenty of rest; you're not going to end up very healthy. The same thing applies to Scripture. We of course should read the Scriptures regularly, but we also need to participate in the Christian faith. We should clothe the poor, feed the hungry, offer our prayers for others, and regularly confess our sins.
S
It's common knowledge that by this period in time orthodox Christianity was the clear winner among the various competing Christian sects.
Interesting statement. It kinda confirms what I thought before though.
That's to broad as it would refer to the RCC, the EO, the OO, the Assyrian Church of the East, etc.
Interesting statement. It kinda confirms what I thought before though.
why not use the term Christian? Oh wait!! 
R
Wow tell me something does this person subscribe to the Westbourgh Baptist Church? My dear fellows all Protestants who claim that Catholics and the Church are from the devil and hell should really and honestly think about what they say. If this is true then the bible that you cling to was brought forth and complied by the very people you are denouncing as false. The Protestant Churches sprang from this Church. So in essence if you curse them you curse your own faith. How can we claim to be brothers and sisters in Christ if we spew out hatred? Only Christ is to Judge and God is to tell us where we are wrong or right. If this faith was so comptemtable to God then he would have done away with it long before Martin Luther protested. If so then all the millions of souls who found Christ through its teachings are not worthy of his love. And by that idea what makes any Protestant worthy?
Hmm... maybe "Only Scripture is given by inspiration of God"...?
I mean, if I said "All Christians believe in YHWH", that would be different than saying "Only Christians believe in YHWH", wouldn't it?
I mean, if I said "All Christians believe in YHWH", that would be different than saying "Only Christians believe in YHWH", wouldn't it?
There is the Truth that Protestantism and Catholicism are two slightly different sides of the same Augustinian coin, or mostly Augustinian coin, and that Truth is found in the Pillar and Ground of the Truth, the Eastern Orthodox Church. There's more to True Christianity than the Protestant vs. Catholic, Catholic vs. Protestant controversy. What if neither of these is completely true? They both agree with each other in falsifying and nullifying John 15:26.
K
Those "Catholics" to claim to put together the Bible aren't really the SAME "Catholics" of today. In the 3rd and 4th centuries, there was great admiration of Mary but there wasn't scapulars and rosaries (prayer beads) dedicated to "her". There was still Jesus being the only way to escape Hell.
Jesus said that HE is the ONLY WAY to God. Yet, "Mary's" promise of wearing her scapular is that by wearing it at the time of death, you'll escape Hell.
Jesus taught His followers to pray. He DIDN'T start with "Hail Mary".
I'm sure there are many other differences between the early Church and what YOU may call the "church".
Jesus said that HE is the ONLY WAY to God. Yet, "Mary's" promise of wearing her scapular is that by wearing it at the time of death, you'll escape Hell.
Jesus taught His followers to pray. He DIDN'T start with "Hail Mary".
I'm sure there are many other differences between the early Church and what YOU may call the "church".
E
And this proves what? It is common knowledge that the false jewish religion was ALWAYS the clear winner among jews from the time they started until the time of Christ. Were they right? Since when do we go by numbers and not truth.
Not to mention. those other competing acts where jailed, mocked, scorned or even killed for their belief, you deny this?
hmm. another excuse?
Not to mention. those other competing acts where jailed, mocked, scorned or even killed for their belief, you deny this?
hmm. another excuse?
S
In the 3rd & 4th centuries, there weren't altar calls or the "Jesus Prayer". Are "Christians" of today not the same as "Christians" of the 3rd/4th century?
The only way to my house is via my driveway. However, the path that you take to get to my driveway can vary. However, all of the ways that successfully get to my house require that you ultimately reach my driveway and use it. I think that's what Catholics are saying when they talk about Mary -- she isn't THE way, but a way leading to Jesus (who himself is THE way).
But that's not what the Catholic church holds. It was asserted, but the Catholic church didn't pick it up.
In other words, you're denying the validity of the development of doctrine?
The only way to my house is via my driveway. However, the path that you take to get to my driveway can vary. However, all of the ways that successfully get to my house require that you ultimately reach my driveway and use it. I think that's what Catholics are saying when they talk about Mary -- she isn't THE way, but a way leading to Jesus (who himself is THE way).
But that's not what the Catholic church holds. It was asserted, but the Catholic church didn't pick it up.
In other words, you're denying the validity of the development of doctrine?
S
Careful, You hold to much of the same beliefs this "false orthodoxy" established.
No, a statement of fact.
I can show you litanies and prayers to the Blessed Virgin from that time period.
If a person faithfully wears it and complies with the obligations for wearing it (Confession and Communion every first Friday). Then they are promised great grace at the time of death and are assured that they will not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
Not really, name a belief that is unique the the Catholic and Orthodox churches and odds are I can find support for it from the Early Church.
No, a statement of fact.
I can show you litanies and prayers to the Blessed Virgin from that time period.
If a person faithfully wears it and complies with the obligations for wearing it (Confession and Communion every first Friday). Then they are promised great grace at the time of death and are assured that they will not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
Not really, name a belief that is unique the the Catholic and Orthodox churches and odds are I can find support for it from the Early Church.
E
why should I be carefull, even with all the false teachings in the NT church, many of them believed much of the same beliefs. This would be normal. since we all use the same bible. It would be normal that we hold the same beliefs is=n some area's and not others. the problem is the gospel. you hold to one, I hold to the other. yet scripture says their is one gospel. who cares if we believe the same in other areas if one of us is basing our eternity on a false gospel. we both can't be right so one of us would be lost forever.
still does not excuse you from calling people who do not protest your churhc protestant and not just christian.
and this would prove what? that some prayed to mary. does it prove some did not or where offended by this? no. which is why we should stick to scripture. not what people did
This is not grace, this is earnign a reward because someone did something every friday. can' you see that this is making people earn salvation. and thus salvation is not a gift but a reward?
guess the bible means nothing. God wasted his time. why even give us his word? it is useless.
still does not excuse you from calling people who do not protest your churhc protestant and not just christian.
and this would prove what? that some prayed to mary. does it prove some did not or where offended by this? no. which is why we should stick to scripture. not what people did
This is not grace, this is earnign a reward because someone did something every friday. can' you see that this is making people earn salvation. and thus salvation is not a gift but a reward?
guess the bible means nothing. God wasted his time. why even give us his word? it is useless.
A
This example is not applicable because it would assume that you said water is ALL WE NEED to be healthy. Yet the Bible tells us that all scripture is all we need for our doctrine and to be "perfect." Additionally the verse goes on to say it is the instruction for ALL GOOD WORKS. That means there is no good thing we can do absent the Bible. This completely refutes any man-made doctrine from any denomination or cult.
And again, any group that is worshiping the dead is not practicing Biblical Christianity:
This is not Biblical either.
These heresies are leading people into spiritual confusion and idolatry. I say this not because I have an issue with the RC church or want to start an argument. I just want to warn people in compassion for their souls. The above photos are precisely why we can only rely on THE BIBLE for our doctrine and guidance. The Word of God and not the word of men.
And again, any group that is worshiping the dead is not practicing Biblical Christianity:
This is not Biblical either.
These heresies are leading people into spiritual confusion and idolatry. I say this not because I have an issue with the RC church or want to start an argument. I just want to warn people in compassion for their souls. The above photos are precisely why we can only rely on THE BIBLE for our doctrine and guidance. The Word of God and not the word of men.
S
The Bible says no such thing. Sola Scriptura is a presumption that is applied to the Bible without any support in Scripture itself or the 1500 years of Christian history that went before it.
That is most certainly not what the text says at all. I see no where the words "without the Bible we can do nothing good", and if what you said was true it would damn every single Christian that could not read, including all the Christians before at least 1720 when literacy was growing.
Except we don't worship the dead, we venerate them. For example The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with the relics of a saint!
Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ’s cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) and the sick who were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).
If these aren’t examples of the use of relics, what are? In the case of Elisha, a Lazarus-like return from the dead was brought about through the prophet’s bones. In the New Testament cases, physical things (the cloak, the shadow, handkerchiefs and aprons) were used to effect cures. There is a perfect congruity between present-day Catholic practice and ancient practice. If you reject all Catholic relics today as frauds, you should also reject these biblical accounts as frauds.
Full article at: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/relics
It's the exposition of the Eucharist, the very Body and Blood of Christ.
They're not heresies, they are the historic practice of the Christian faith. Catholicism was not created like whatever church you may attend, it is a continuation of the same Christians who Paul and Peter addressed and worked among, and a continuation of the Apostles and their teaching. But regardless of if you wanted an argument or not you got one, just like my staunchly Catholic ancestors that fought in the 30 Years War, I'll defend the faith, but with words instead of a sword.
That is most certainly not what the text says at all. I see no where the words "without the Bible we can do nothing good", and if what you said was true it would damn every single Christian that could not read, including all the Christians before at least 1720 when literacy was growing.
Except we don't worship the dead, we venerate them. For example The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with the relics of a saint!
Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ’s cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) and the sick who were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).
If these aren’t examples of the use of relics, what are? In the case of Elisha, a Lazarus-like return from the dead was brought about through the prophet’s bones. In the New Testament cases, physical things (the cloak, the shadow, handkerchiefs and aprons) were used to effect cures. There is a perfect congruity between present-day Catholic practice and ancient practice. If you reject all Catholic relics today as frauds, you should also reject these biblical accounts as frauds.
Full article at: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/relics
This is not Biblical either.
They're not heresies, they are the historic practice of the Christian faith. Catholicism was not created like whatever church you may attend, it is a continuation of the same Christians who Paul and Peter addressed and worked among, and a continuation of the Apostles and their teaching. But regardless of if you wanted an argument or not you got one, just like my staunchly Catholic ancestors that fought in the 30 Years War, I'll defend the faith, but with words instead of a sword.
Paul and James may seem like they're contradicting each other, but they're really not. We are saved by grace through faith. Numerous scriptures repeat this same message, so we're clear on that.
The works they refer to are actually the fruits of the Holy Spirit, which we are naturally given after we are saved. If a person isn't saved they will not possess these fruits. If they try to do "good deeds" from themselves they are trying to earn salvation (which you cannot do) and the works are dead because they do not come from the Holy Spirit. The fruits are a gift from the Holy Spirit.
So.....
James 2:26 – “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”
(A saved person will naturally show the fruits)
James 2:17-19 – “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works”. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well”
Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them”
The works they refer to are actually the fruits of the Holy Spirit, which we are naturally given after we are saved. If a person isn't saved they will not possess these fruits. If they try to do "good deeds" from themselves they are trying to earn salvation (which you cannot do) and the works are dead because they do not come from the Holy Spirit. The fruits are a gift from the Holy Spirit.
So.....
James 2:26 – “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also”
(A saved person will naturally show the fruits)
James 2:17-19 – “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works”. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well”
Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them”
Every religion should be compared to the bible. Period. If you only read the bible with the goal of defending your religion you will not find the truth, because you are inadvertently twisting scripture to fit with what your church teaches. This can lead you to error without realizing.
As Christ says... Matthew 7:7: "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you"
If you search for the truth, you will find it.
How long will it take you to say a prayer? - Ask Him to reveal the truth to you, and He will. Just be genuinely wanting the truth and He will show you. Be sure to read the bible with a fresh mind..
As Christ says... Matthew 7:7: "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you"
If you search for the truth, you will find it.
How long will it take you to say a prayer? - Ask Him to reveal the truth to you, and He will. Just be genuinely wanting the truth and He will show you. Be sure to read the bible with a fresh mind..
A
I have meet born again Christians among the Caltholic ranks and I have meet hypocrites in all churches no matter the denomination.
In truth God judges. we pray that they will repent and turn back to Him and have faith and hope that He is able to renew and cleanse even the most base sinner.
it saddens me the alienation that many who are of the Catholic faith feel. there are some doctrines taught I don't agree with but that is true in most denomination. is the fault in me or them?
I suspect both for only God is perfect and good.
In truth God judges. we pray that they will repent and turn back to Him and have faith and hope that He is able to renew and cleanse even the most base sinner.
it saddens me the alienation that many who are of the Catholic faith feel. there are some doctrines taught I don't agree with but that is true in most denomination. is the fault in me or them?
I suspect both for only God is perfect and good.
G
Coming from a country that is like predominantly Catholic it sometimes pains me to see that it's all become a mumbo jumbo of rituals and deeds. Catholic theology really emphasized JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH but a part of their theology tells its members to behave in the world too and do what needs to be done. The reason many Catholics here are afraid of Christians is that we are pushing them to abandon "the faith"... let us remember the Catholic church means "whole", and Christ really envisioned ONE Church in Him. Sadly though, the Catholic theology has focused on the "behaving" part that people are now forgetting the real reason why they are doing all those things-- to glorify God. Many end up being lapsed Catholics... the "six-days godless and one-day Catholic" phenomenon. We don't need to seek "Catholics" we should be seeking the "lapsed and lost"... as for the devout ones, we should encourage them to step up their faith and encounter God... The last thing us Christians need is a fellow Christian judging us and telling us that we're going down because we're not "following the brand".
Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Congregational, Brethren, Mennonite, Anabaptist-- these are just brands. And it's good that there is diversity in Christianity. I just wish that this diversity is not seen as division... but seen as unity under the one language that is to glorify God.
I recently had revelations of how divided our church is, and it hurts me to know we are evangelizing people to get them out of a "brand" and not out of the "pit". God revealed Micah 4:1-3 to me and I hope even in the division His church experiences right now, we will someday be united in diversity in glorifying God.
Micah 4:1-3
1 In the last days
the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and peoples will stream to it.
2 Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.
Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Congregational, Brethren, Mennonite, Anabaptist-- these are just brands. And it's good that there is diversity in Christianity. I just wish that this diversity is not seen as division... but seen as unity under the one language that is to glorify God.
I recently had revelations of how divided our church is, and it hurts me to know we are evangelizing people to get them out of a "brand" and not out of the "pit". God revealed Micah 4:1-3 to me and I hope even in the division His church experiences right now, we will someday be united in diversity in glorifying God.
Micah 4:1-3
1 In the last days
the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and peoples will stream to it.
2 Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.