What about things the Bible is just wrong about?

[The-Prodical-Son]

The question is, is there any species of big fish that is actually big enough to swallow a man? If not, why can't a whale be called a big fish? It's poetic language, not science. The Bible often uses poetic language. People do, too! So, Jonah could have been swallowed by a big fish, that is, by a whale. Few fish seem to be big enough to swallow humans. Take care.

Oh yeah, i agree with you there mate but.. fisherman have now discovered Catfish that could swallow men whole and they would be in the Mediterranean at that time. I didn't see the verse in Mathew about it being a whale so my guesses are that it is a whale if thats what the Bible says. AND if you're a Bible believing Christian then there were giant lizards before the flood, who's to say there weren't giant fish too that didn't die because of the flood. But yeah, i do agree with you there, thanks for pointing that out. God Bless

 

[AnandaHya]

here is an example of a giant fish:

BBC - Earth News - Giant bizarre deep sea fish filmed in Gulf of Mexico

"The oarfish, which can reach 17m long, has previously only been seen on a few occasions dying at the sea surface, or dead washed ashore."
1 meter = 3.2808399 feet

just in case you didn't know. God has more creatures who live in depths of the deep sea trenches whose pressure is too high for us to document or even send equipment down. Deep sea exploration is like outer space travel.

My brother and I wonder which will be colonized first the oceans (under water cities) or Mars (terra-formed domes). I doubt we will see it happen in our lifetime though.

 

[giantone]

xphineasx, your pillar scripture, if it is a statement on how the world is constructed then why doesn't the rest of the verses before and after say anything about more of how the world is constructed?

To be more exact, don't we use language like pillars of faith or all kinds of other pillar terms.

heres another example from the Bible:

Wisdom has seven pillars:
Proverbs 9:1 *¶Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:

and here's your scripture you gave about how world is constructed:

1 Samuel 2:6 *The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
7 *The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.
8 *He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
9 *He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

I trust not too many ungodly people have houses built on sand, but according to the Bible they do, so the Bible must be wrong:

Matthew 7:26 *And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

 

[giantone]

I have a question for everyone, if the Earth is flat, how did it flood in Noah's flood, wouldn't the water have fallen off the edge, and would you think the people who read the Bible for all theses centuries possibly come up with this question?

Maybe they thought it was like a giant bathtub (the old type with legs (pillars).

 

[lightbliss]

So, you're trying to disprove the Bible because it has a few slight discrepancies in terminology? Or are you trying to do something else? I don't understand.

 

[jimmydiggs]

First of all, just because I dont believe in an objective moral standard (as an Existentialist), doesn't mean I lack MORALS.

How can you have something which doesn't exist?

And I can make moral judgement on other things. I have a personal moral code based on personal experience and logic.

No, you actually can't make a moral judgement on anything because you are attempting to borrow from the Judeo-Christian worldview the idea that morality exists as a thing and not as a collection of personal preferences.

Ordering pregnant women to have their wombs ripped open: Immoral. (Kings 15:16)

Is this where we start the semantical word game? You can not begin to make a moral judgement if morality doesn't exist...

The Bible never refers to the Earth as a "disc", but does talk about how it is flat

I'd like to know where the bible actually says the word flat in relation to the earth.

and supported by pillars. A lot. As I've already quoted.

Apparently you didn't read my responses, as they dealt with this.

Are you suggesting that all of Genesis is just a metaphor?

Did you read what I posted?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Which parts are symbolic, how did you determine that and why?

This is where we get down to an area of study known as Hermeneutics.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Circle = Not a Sphere.
Circle = Disc
I already quoted that verse earlier in this very thread.

The Hebrew langauge didn't have a world for "Sphere". May not still today, I'm not certain.

 

[jimmydiggs]

So you've boiled the problem down to "metaphor"

There are metaphors in Genesis, but Genesis overall is written in a historical sense.

and "translation error"?

Did I say there was a translation error?

While I can't say much for the translation errors, as I don't speak or read Hebrew, the metaphor bit is wholly unconvincing.

How so?

God reflecting the current times understanding of the world, incorrectly, as a metaphor?

What about it is incorrect?

If it is a metaphor then WHY is it used? Metaphors are used with purpose.

I don't know, ask God.

How did you determine it was a metaphor?

First, I wasn't exactl the one to determine that. The sources I used did. Second, that would be the study of Hermeneutics.

 

[Izdaari]

One of the things we have to remember is the type of writing a book is. Even though Genesis is written mostly in a historical sense (just as the Gospels are) that does not mean it is free of metaphor or symbolic speech.

Just so!

xphineasx,

I don't think you can find something the Bible is flatly wrong about, without insisting on a strict literal reading. That has problems, to wit:

1) A strict literal reading does violence to the Divine Author's intent, since the Bible contains many literary forms, only some of which are intended to be taken that way... and even those contain metaphors and figures of speech.

2) The vast majority of the world's Christians do not currently, and historically never have, taken it that way.

3) It's kind of lame to argue that there's only one correct form of Christianity, when you don't believe in that form of it, or any form of it for that matter, and only insist on it for an obvious self-serving reason -- that it's the easiest form for you to argue against.

 

[AnandaHya]

Example of figurative language (at least most people will tell you its figurative: do you thiink they literally mean a "shield of faith" "fiery darts" or a "sword of the Spirit"? which is by the way "the word of God" or the BIBLE.

Ephesians 6:16-18 (New King James Version)

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

YouTube - "I Know You're There" - Casting Crowns

Current song "If all I had was one last breath, I would spend it singing your praise, saying your name.....because I know Your there. I know you see me. You're the air I breathe, You're the ground beneath me..." (figuratively?)

 

[wakeup]

Jonah1:17. Now the lord had PREPARED A GREAT FISH,----

YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THEIR KNOWLEDGE in ASTRONOMY THOSE DAYS.
God is speaking to the humble, not the educated,and he still is today. Most of the academics are the proud. You must have the mind of a child to understand Gods doctrine it is the opposite to this world requirement.One has to be learned to succeed in this world, but not in Gods world.In the kingdom will be the humble only.

''wakeup''.

 

[dscherck]

So you ignore part of the "infallible" word of God?

One must look deeper than a literal sense. What is the meaning of the story? Was it a scientific text regarding St. Jonah and the fish? Or was it a story about how God will save us for a deeper purpose despite our tragic circumstance?

If you look at the Scriptures as a scientific treatise, you're missing the point. The Creation story isn't a science story, it's the story of how God created us all and said that Creation is good. And that man is Very good.

The same can be true of a variety of things. We know now of course that the mustard seed isn't the smallest of all seeds, but that wasn't the point of Our Lord's parable was it?

 

[resurrection33]

This isn't even about all the moral and ethical atrocities that the OT God ordered to be committed, this is just about statements of fact that are just flat out wrong.

Whales being fish, the Earth being a flat disc, the moon emitting it's own light.

What do you do with that?

If you read the Bible, you will find that sometimes God or Jesus are directly quoted. They were never wrong, because God is God, and I believe Jesus is God in flesh.

I think sometimes the Bible speaks to us symbolically, such as the expression “the four corners of the earth.”

 

[xphineasx]

The Hebrew langauge didn't have a world for "Sphere". May not still today, I'm not certain.

The Hebrews have no word for "ball"?

 

[xphineasx]

One must look deeper than a literal sense. What is the meaning of the story? Was it a scientific text regarding St. Jonah and the fish? Or was it a story about how God will save us for a deeper purpose despite our tragic circumstance?

If you look at the Scriptures as a scientific treatise, you're missing the point. The Creation story isn't a science story, it's the story of how God created us all and said that Creation is good. And that man is Very good.

The same can be true of a variety of things. We know now of course that the mustard seed isn't the smallest of all seeds, but that wasn't the point of Our Lord's parable was it?

The point is that it's an unreliable source for any actual understanding of how the world works. It's no more accurate than any other old mythology.

It's the unreliable narrator argument.

 

[xphineasx]

YOU ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THEIR KNOWLEDGE in ASTRONOMY THOSE DAYS.
God is speaking to the humble, not the educated,and he still is today. Most of the academics are the proud. You must have the mind of a child to understand Gods doctrine it is the opposite to this world requirement.One has to be learned to succeed in this world, but not in Gods world.In the kingdom will be the humble only.

''wakeup''.

So...God can create the world in 7 days, but can't make uneducated Shepard accurately describe whether or not the moon emits light?

 

[xphineasx]

There are metaphors in Genesis, but Genesis overall is written in a historical sense.


Did I say there was a translation error?


How so?


What about it is incorrect?


I don't know, ask God.


First, I wasn't exactl the one to determine that. The sources I used did. Second, that would be the study of Hermeneutics.

Ask God? I don't believe in God. God doesn't answer questions any more than Santa does answers why rich kids get good presents and poor kids dont.

Look: The thing about metaphors is that they have a PURPOSE. Writers use metaphors to make a point.
So if there's no symbolic meaning for the moon to emit light, it being a metaphor makes no sense.

The moon does NOT emit light. So saying the moon emits light, especially when it serves no symbolic purpose, is wrong and fails as a metaphor.

 

[xphineasx]

This is where we get down to an area of study known as Hermeneutics.

Can you explain it to me, or are you just...unable to to do that?

 

[xphineasx]

How can you have something which doesn't exist?


No, you actually can't make a moral judgement on anything because you are attempting to borrow from the Judeo-Christian worldview the idea that morality exists as a thing and not as a collection of personal preferences.


Is this where we start the semantical word game? You can not begin to make a moral judgement if morality doesn't exist...


I'd like to know where the bible actually says the word flat in relation to the earth.


Apparently you didn't read my responses, as they dealt with this.

Did you read what I posted?

We've been over this in another thread. Do we have to go through it again?

I can have a personal moral code, without thinking that morals are inherently woven into the fabric of the universe.