What about your denominations creed(s)?

[zone]

You are bringing up a false analogy. The Talmud is heretical Jewish propaganda against our dear and beloved LORD GOD and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
Every time a Protestant minister who professes to go by Sola Scriptura preaches a sermon, he is speaking against the need for "Scripture alone". If he really believed in Scripture alone, he would merely read the Scriptures in the Church. He wouldn't comment upon them, or say what they mean. He would just read them aloud.
Not authoritative enough?
Are you saying that the Bible is not authoritative enough.
I thought you believed the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible.
So, what will you say when you learn that the Bible itself speaks of oral traditions, and says these are to be kept?
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thess. 2:15 KJV

What were the traditions that the Thessalonians were taught? These traditions came in

word, and not in St. Paul's writings only. What were St. Paul's words to them? Scripture

does not say. Yet St. Paul commanded them to keep his words. Obviously, in the early

Church, the churches were founded by Jesus Christ through His twelve apostles and St.

Paul, St. Barnabas, St. Timothy, St. Titus, and the 70 disciples, and so on. The early

ministers (priests (presbyters)/elders) mentioned in the NT. It is Scripture itself that

proves the "Bible alone" approach of the Protestant Reformation to be faulty. No

Protestant actually practices sola Scriptura. It is the Bible plus German, French, Swiss,

Scottish, British traditions taught by Luther, Calvin, Knox, Zwingli, Melanchthon, and so on.

It's the 16th century nominalistic traditions of men, not the Apostolic Tradition received

from the 12 apostles, etc. in the Greek Orthodox Church.

In Erie Scott R. Harrington PS God bless you and give you peace with God. God bless

us all and give us peace with God through our LORD Jesus Christ. Amen.

just make it simple for me then scott if you would.

link to a list of traditions that are not in scripture, have been handed down orally from the first apostles.

can i read them? or are they in mystical rituals? i don't get it.

resource something i can find online that will spell out what these traditions are....who knows: maybe i will believe it.

 

[Scotth1960]

just make it simple for me then scott if you would.

link to a list of traditions that are not in scripture, have been handed down orally from the first apostles.

can i read them? or are they in mystical rituals? i don't get it.

resource something i can find online that will spell out what these traditions are....who knows: maybe i will believe it.

You have to be willing to learn the truth. If you don't understand how Orthodoxy preaches

the Truth about Christ (in John 15:26 and so many other verses), you won't appreciate oral

tradition.

For example. How do we know how Christ was born? The Scripture alone doesn't tell us

much. Oral tradition tells us, however, it was not an ordinary birth. It was a supernatural


birth. Christ did not open the womb of the ever-virgin Mary. According to and in keeping

with the inviolable Scripture of Ezekiel 44:1-3, Christ miraculously appeared outside of

the body of the Virgin Mary. Thus the seal of her womb was never broken, and she

remained ever-virgin. She didn't have relations with St. Joseph. Notice how Scripture

does not say anywhere, "The children of Joseph and Mary." If you want to read

about the lives of the saints, see The Lives of the Twelve Apostles published by Holy

Apostles Convent, Buena Vista, CO. For just a few dollars, at your local college or public,

library,you can get an ILL (Inter-library loan). Also see The Great Collection of the Lives

of the Saints by St. Dimitry of Rostov. See Volume III, November, under November 30, for

Saint Andrew. You can read about this on Google. If you want a good introductory

book on the Orthodox Faith, go online to Google under Conciliar Press of Ben Lomond, CA,

and order "Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith" by Peter E.

Gillquist. You can also order this and many other Orthodox books from Amazon.com on

Google.

The best book you can get that answers Eastern Orthodox objections to Protestant

teachings, see:


Fr. Paul O'Callaghan. An Eastern Orthodox Response to Evangelical Claims. Light and

Life Publishing Company PO Box 26421, Minneapolis, MN 55426-0421 copyright 1984.

There is much Protestantism and Orthodoxy have in common. The KJV version of the

New Testament is basically correct, and has only a few mistakes in translations, most

particularly in the Calvinism of Hebrews 6:6, where the Greek NT text does not have the

word "if", it should read, "And then have fallen away ..." not "If they should fall away .."

Protestants and Orthodox Christians both reject the jurisdiction, supremacy and alleged

infallibility of the pope of Rome. Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS The Great Collection of the Lives of the Saints by St. Dimitry of Rostov is published by Chrysostom Press, House Springs, Missouri. Your local library should be able to get you an ILL INTERLIBRARY LOAN FOR THESE BOOKS. Which contain some of the oral traditions of the apostles and saints of Christ. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[zone]

You have to be willing to learn the truth. If you don't understand how Orthodoxy preaches

the Truth about Christ (in John 15:26 and so many other verses), you won't appreciate oral

tradition.

For example. How do we know how Christ was born? The Scripture alone doesn't tell us

much. Oral tradition tells us, however, it was not an ordinary birth. It was a supernatural


birth. Christ did not open the womb of the ever-virgin Mary. According to and in keeping

with the inviolable Scripture of Ezekiel 44:1-3, Christ miraculously appeared outside of

the body of the Virgin Mary. Thus the seal of her womb was never broken, and she

remained ever-virgin. She didn't have relations with St. Joseph.

thank you.
i won't be ordering any books (not enough $ and i don't shop online).

if the OC has a website or material i can look at to see what oral traditions are taught (such as the above about Jesus just appearing outside mary's womb.....could you actually source that for me in ezekiel?...can't find it).

i do want to learn, i wouldn't be asking if i didn't.

thank you.

 

[Scotth1960]

just make it simple for me then scott if you would.

link to a list of traditions that are not in scripture, have been handed down orally from the first apostles.

can i read them? or are they in mystical rituals? i don't get it.

resource something i can find online that will spell out what these traditions are....who knows: maybe i will believe it.

Dear zone, A good place for you to start is where you are. In some Western tradition.
I gather you are already acquainted with some Bible tradition (all Christians are Bible Christians: they take different things out of the same Bible). If you follow some nondenominational, or independent, charismatic, or Protestant/ Evangelical tradition, a book written by a Presbyterian minister was published in 1973 which teaches about the ministry and teachings of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. It's published by Tyndale House Publishers in Wheaton, IL and is called "The Search For the Twelve Apostles" and is written by William Steuart McBirnie. That's a good place to start, since it agrees with Protestant tradition. The Protestants take some traditions from the Eastern Orthodox Church, and many of them know and respect the early Church Fathers. It's just that the Protestants go too far afield from Apostolic Tradition, and read their own pet doctrines into the Fathers and into the Scriptures traditions which are neither in the Church Fathers nor in the NT Scriptures. Take care. God bless you always. In Erie Scott Harrington

 

[zone]

Dear zone, A good place for you to start is where you are. In some Western tradition.
I gather you are already acquainted with some Bible tradition (all Christians are Bible Christians: they take different things out of the same Bible). If you follow some nondenominational, or independent, charismatic, or Protestant/ Evangelical tradition, a book written by a Presbyterian minister was published in 1973 which teaches about the ministry and teachings of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. It's published by Tyndale House Publishers in Wheaton, IL and is called "The Search For the Twelve Apostles" and is written by William Steuart McBirnie. That's a good place to start, since it agrees with Protestant tradition. The Protestants take some traditions from the Eastern Orthodox Church, and many of them know and respect the early Church Fathers. It's just that the Protestants go too far afield from Apostolic Tradition, and read their own pet doctrines into the Fathers and into the Scriptures traditions which are neither in the Church Fathers nor in the NT Scriptures. Take care. God bless you always. In Erie Scott Harrington

thank you
i will search for it online.
zone.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Dear zone, A good place for you to start is where you are. In some Western tradition.
I gather you are already acquainted with some Bible tradition (all Christians are Bible Christians: they take different things out of the same Bible). If you follow some nondenominational, or independent, charismatic, or Protestant/ Evangelical tradition, a book written by a Presbyterian minister was published in 1973 which teaches about the ministry and teachings of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. It's published by Tyndale House Publishers in Wheaton, IL and is called "The Search For the Twelve Apostles" and is written by William Steuart McBirnie. That's a good place to start, since it agrees with Protestant tradition. The Protestants take some traditions from the Eastern Orthodox Church, and many of them know and respect the early Church Fathers. It's just that the Protestants go too far afield from Apostolic Tradition, and read their own pet doctrines into the Fathers and into the Scriptures traditions which are neither in the Church Fathers nor in the NT Scriptures. Take care. God bless you always. In Erie Scott Harrington

Scott here's an old joke to help you understand what you're up against...

Three christians die in the same day and go to heaven. Let's say the first Christian is an Orthodox. St. Peter tells the Orthodox that he has free roam to enjoy all that heaven has to offer however... (Peter points to a door) ... the only rule here is that you be very quiet any time you get get near that door. The Orthodox agrees and enters the Pearly Gates joyfully.

The second Christian to die is a Presbyterian. St. Peter points the door and gives the Presbyterian the same instruction. The Presbyterian agrees and makes his way through Pearly Gates full of joy and praise as well.


The last Christian to die is a Pentecostal. St. Peter points to the door yet again and gives the same set of instructions. The Pentecostal agrees but before enters through the Pearly Gates, his curiousity get's the best of him. He turns to St. Peter as he points toward the door and asks why? St. Peter then responds with a chuckle, "Oh, that small corner is reserved exclusively for Baptists since they believe they're the only one's here anyway."

Catch my drift? *lol*

 

[wakeup]

If everything we need to believe to be Christians needs to be in the Bible, the Bible itself would say, "Go by the Bible alone." Does the Bible say this? No! It does not! 2 Thess. 2:15 says there are also spoken traditions of the Apostles that we are to keep. Tradition says Peter was in Antioch and in Rome. The Bible tells us to follow tradition (2 Thess 2:15).

You are revering to the book more than the words in the book, the words they are the words of God. Jesus is the word of God,if you concentrate on the words,you are concentrating on jesus.You are feeding on his flesh.

 

[Scotth1960]

thank you.
i won't be ordering any books (not enough $ and i don't shop online).

if the OC has a website or material i can look at to see what oral traditions are taught (such as the above about Jesus just appearing outside mary's womb.....could you actually source that for me in ezekiel?...can't find it).

i do want to learn, i wouldn't be asking if i didn't.

thank you.

Dear Zone, Regarding the ever-virginity of Mary. Ezekiel 44:1-3 KJV: "Then He brought

me back to the outer gate toward the east, but it was shy. And the LORD said to me, "This

gate shall be shut; it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter by it, because the LORD

God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut. As for the prince, because he is

the prince, he may sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by way of the

vestibule of the gateway, and gout out the same way."

Ezekiel 44 says the gate of Mary's womb shall be shut, and no man shall enter by it, be-

cause the Lord God of Israel has entered by it. Go on Google and type in Easterrn

Orthodox Church Ever-virginity of Mary type in Facing Up to Mary by Peter E. Gillquist

Type in Orthodoxinfo.com and read articles by the Orthodox Christian Information Center

They have good articles See also Fatheralexander.org Father Alexander Mileant

Take care. Also read the article on the missionary journeys of the Apostle Andrew that

I referenced in my other threads. God bless you in your quest for Truth. In Erie PA

Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

thank you.
i won't be ordering any books (not enough $ and i don't shop online).

if the OC has a website or material i can look at to see what oral traditions are taught (such as the above about Jesus just appearing outside mary's womb.....could you actually source that for me in ezekiel?...can't find it).

i do want to learn, i wouldn't be asking if i didn't.

thank you.

Dear Zone, See The Ever-Virgin Mother of God by Archpriest Georges Florovsky
Fatheralexander.org on GOOGLE I read about the virgin Mary miraculously appearing outside of the womb in Orthodox Life. Email Cleante or Zossima on this site and ask them about it: they are Eastern Orthodox Christians, and they can verify that this is what the Church teaches. If they have heard about it. They should have. I heard about it, I believe, to the best of my recollection, in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia's journal, "Orthodox Life", from Jordanville, NY. God bless you now and forever and unto the ages of ages. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

thank you.
i won't be ordering any books (not enough $ and i don't shop online).

if the OC has a website or material i can look at to see what oral traditions are taught (such as the above about Jesus just appearing outside mary's womb.....could you actually source that for me in ezekiel?...can't find it).

i do want to learn, i wouldn't be asking if i didn't.

thank you.

Dear Zone, Virginityof Mary and the Original Birth of Jesus
www.catholic-convert.com/documents/MiraculousBirthEdited.pdf

God bless. God bless you! In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS The Roman Catholic church and the Orthodox Church both teach the same thing on

this issue. ISTM.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dear Zone, Virginityof Mary and the Original Birth of Jesus
www.catholic-convert.com/documents/MiraculousBirthEdited.pdf

God bless. God bless you! In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS The Roman Catholic church and the Orthodox Church both teach the same thing on

this issue. ISTM.

unfortunately both churches are in grave error on these issues. They misrepresent mary, and actually offend her by saying these things.

 

[zone]

Scott here's an old joke to help you understand what you're up against...

Three christians die in the same day and go to heaven. Let's say the first Christian is an Orthodox. St. Peter tells the Orthodox that he has free roam to enjoy all that heaven has to offer however... (Peter points to a door) ... the only rule here is that you be very quiet any time you get get near that door. The Orthodox agrees and enters the Pearly Gates joyfully.

The second Christian to die is a Presbyterian. St. Peter points the door and gives the Presbyterian the same instruction. The Presbyterian agrees and makes his way through Pearly Gates full of joy and praise as well.


The last Christian to die is a Pentecostal. St. Peter points to the door yet again and gives the same set of instructions. The Pentecostal agrees but before enters through the Pearly Gates, his curiousity get's the best of him. He turns to St. Peter as he points toward the door and asks why? St. Peter then responds with a chuckle, "Oh, that small corner is reserved exclusively for Baptists since they believe they're the only one's here anyway."

Catch my drift? *lol*

hehehehe......that's funny.

i'm not a baptist though.

are you a Pentecostal? oh ya....i'm on ignore, tsk...

 

[zone]

Dear Zone, Virginityof Mary and the Original Birth of Jesus
www.catholic-convert.com/documents/MiraculousBirthEdited.pdf

God bless. God bless you! In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

PS The Roman Catholic church and the Orthodox Church both teach the same thing on

this issue. ISTM.

thanks!
but that link denies Jesus just "appeared outside the womb".

He was delivered like any other baby.

 

[Scotth1960]

unfortunately both churches are in grave error on these issues. They misrepresent mary, and actually offend her by saying these things.

Dear eternally grateful, That is just wrong. It's the Protestants today who are in grave error. With their sola Scriptura and sola fide doctrines, some of them are ordaining homosexual clergy. Gays and lesbian ministers. They ordain women, too. The Anglicans have the same problem. Orthodoxy doesn't tolerate homosexuality. Whenever homosexuality occurs among the Orthodox, the whole church that conducts homosexual ceremonies is torn down and destroyed to the ground. There is sin in every Christian church, but these problems seem to be stronger in the non-Orthodox West. As for the Orthodox Church or Roman Catholicism misrepresenting Mary, they do not offend her. It is my Protestant unconscious (reactive mind) that offends. Sometimes I have very bad thoughts, and these offend God. My mind is in warfare between good and evil. Sometimes, I have thoughts I can not explain. I think things about God or the ever-Virgin that are disrespectful. So I don't mean to disrespect God or any saint. But the Protestants don't know what they are talking about when it comes to Mary. They disrespect her by making her into some kind or ordinary housewife. Marriage is honorable in all, and the marriage bed undefiled. This was not Mary's vocation. Her sole role was to bring Christ into the world. Not to please St. Joseph.

 

[Scotth1960]

thanks!
but that link denies Jesus just "appeared outside the womb".

He was delivered like any other baby.

Zone, I received the good news (great news) about the supernatural birth of Christ from the holy fathers of Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville, NY, in their excellent Orthodox Christian journal, Orthodox Life. When you read how they celebrate Christmas, you get a real feeling they really worship Christ the LORD, and honor His divinity and His humanity in a real way. They show the sanctity and the unique, unrepeatable miracle of Christ's miraculous birth. His birth was not an ordinary birth. It is blasphemy to suggest that it was. Everything about Jesus Christ is miraculous and supernatural. His body appeared miraculously outside of the body of the ever-virgin Mary, and did not pass through the gate of her womb. Thus both His sanctity and her sanctity were perfectly preserved. It was not an ordinary, painful birth like the birth of an ordinary sinner. Christ had no sin. His mother was the New Eve, and she was saved by her Son from the curse of painful childbirth. His Divinity sanctified and healed her womb, and sanctified her whole body as the perpetual ever-virgin Ark of the New Covenant, the burning bush. Everyone who is Orthodox should keep this saying, and every Christian should become Orthodox. Christ promised, "Remember the word that I said to you, "A servant is not greater than his master." If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also." John 15:20 KJV My word is from the testimony of the Orthodox Church into which I am entering. Jesus Christ appeared miraculously outside of the body of the ever-virgin Mary, and did not break the seal of her womb by His birth as God manifest in the flesh.
God bless all of you. God save us.
Christ was not delivered like any other baby. Jesus Christ is LORD. Therefore, His very birth must be miraculous and extra-ordinary. Have faith in God! Trust in the Word of His Orthodox Church! Which cannot lie!
Bless the LORD O my soul: Let all that is within me, bless His Holy Name! Blessed is the Kingdom of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages; Amen.

God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

thanks!
but that link denies Jesus just "appeared outside the womb".

He was delivered like any other baby.

Dear Zone, Please see Isaiah 66:7 about the painless birth of Christ to the ever-virgin Mary.
See: The Virginity of Our Lady in Partu: The Painless Miraculous Birth of our Lord Jesus Christ
http:// home.earthlink.net/~mysticrose/virginityinpartu.htm

Take care. God bless you ever and always and unto the ages of ages in Christ Jesus our LORD. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
Christ was not delivered like any other baby: Believe in His miraculous birth! (John 15:20).
Because what I say agrees with what the Church says. (15:20).

Lord have mercy on us. Amen.

 

[Scotth1960]

[quote=zone;440557]thank you.
i won't be ordering any books (not enough $ and i don't shop online).

if the OC has a website or material i can look at to see what oral traditions are taught (such as the above about Jesus just appearing outside mary's womb.....could you actually source that for me in ezekiel?...can't find it).

i do want to learn, i wouldn't be asking if i didn't.

thank you.[/quote]
Dear Zone, Isaiah 66:7, "Before she was in labor, she gave birth before her pain came, she delivered a male child" (KJV). V. 8: Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children." (KJV).

Moving on now: To our Father among the Saints, Blessed Saint Andrew the First-Called Apostle of Jesus Christ our LORD GOD and Saviour. Read about St. Andrew in:


Biographical Study on St. Andrew the Apostle

http:// anchorite.org/blog/2006/07/17/biographical-study-on-st-andrew-the-apostle/

God bless you always in Christ Jesus our LORD. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Tigger2]

If everything we need to believe to be Christians needs to be in the Bible, the Bible itself would say, "Go by the Bible alone." Does the Bible say this? No! It does not! 2 Thess. 2:15 says there are also spoken traditions of the Apostles that we are to keep. Tradition says Peter was in Antioch and in Rome. The Bible tells us to follow tradition (2 Thess 2:15).

In the last days men will be followers of traditions & doctrines of men more than they will the words of God. Enjoy your traditions & doctrines & I will rely on Gods word only.

 

[Tigger2]

Dear friends,
Dear Santo Subito and Roman Catholic friends,
Dear Cleante and Zossima and Eastern Orthodox friends,
Recommended reading on the schism between Rome and Orthodoxy:
Cleenewerck, Laurent. (2007). HIS BROKEN BODY: Understanding and Healing the Schism Between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches (An Orthodox Perspective),
The Euclid Consortium / (Pôle d'Extension Universitaire Euclide) - Home of the Distance (Online) Master's Degree in Diplomacy and International Affairs Self Publishing and Book Printing Solutions - Books, EBooks, Photo books and Calendars at Lulu.com

God bless you all. In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

Dear Brothers & Sisters that believe the infallible words of God to be complete & not to be added to & taken away from, READ YOUR BIBLES & LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT

 

[Tigger2]

Dear Zone, Regarding the ever-virginity of Mary. Ezekiel 44:1-3 KJV: "Then He brought

me back to the outer gate toward the east, but it was shy. And the LORD said to me, "This

gate shall be shut; it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter by it, because the LORD

God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut. As for the prince, because he is

the prince, he may sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by way of the

vestibule of the gateway, and gout out the same way."

Ezekiel 44 says the gate of Mary's womb shall be shut, and no man shall enter by it, be-

cause the Lord God of Israel has entered by it. Go on Google and type in Easterrn

Orthodox Church Ever-virginity of Mary type in Facing Up to Mary by Peter E. Gillquist

Type in Orthodoxinfo.com and read articles by the Orthodox Christian Information Center

They have good articles See also Fatheralexander.org Father Alexander Mileant

Take care. Also read the article on the missionary journeys of the Apostle Andrew that

I referenced in my other threads. God bless you in your quest for Truth. In Erie PA

Scott R. Harrington

This is a perfect example of twisting & adding to scripture to fit your churches doctrines & traditions