What are the "Works of the Law" and who is under them?

[brmicke]

1. If a study is done of the verses that mention the law you will find that the phrase "works of the Law" does not mean keeping the Law of God. It refers to the "works" mandated by the Law of Moses in order to be forgiven and again be in right standing with God.

If a person sinned they must co-operate with the law of Moses and offer the appropriate sacrifice to obtain forgiveness. That is the "works of the Law".

If a person had sinned under the old covenant they had to do what the law required to be forgiven.

If we sin we still have to appeal to God through a sacrifice for sin. That sacrifice is Jesus.

2. If a study is done of the term "under the Law" it will be seen that the phrase refers to a person who has sinned and needs to appeal to God through the sacrifice for forgiveness.

If a person is under grace they are in compliance or co-operation with the Law and have abstained from ungodliness.

3. This mixed up theology of works vs grace is a non existent doctrinal stance and is extra biblical.

Do we have to do any works --- We must lose our lives. Is that not the biggest work we can do. Is not repentance a work?

Again if a person will do a study of all the verses mentioning the word "works" particularly as the word applies to this topic they will find that the context, except for a very few verses, always refers to the "works of the Law" as was mentioned previously.

 

[crossnote]

Sounds a little interesting and a bit confusing.
Ex..Is repentance a work or something God grants...

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
(Act 5:31)

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(Act 11:18)

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(Rom 2:4)

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
(2Ti 2:25)

I suspect there is more to repentance than what meets the eye.

 

[brmicke]

Sounds a little interesting and a bit confusing.
Ex..Is repentance a work or something God grants...

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
(Act 5:31)

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(Act 11:18)

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(Rom 2:4)

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
(2Ti 2:25)

I suspect there is more to repentance than what meets the eye.

Hi Crossnote - I think there are things here that others need to know. From reading some of your stuff I think we mostly agree. The things I try to present that others need to know are these---

1. They need to understand the scriptural definition of "Grace".

Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2. What the phrase "under the law" means. Under the Law means that a person Has sinned and is under the disciplinary authority of the Law of God.

3. They need to understand that there are "works" involved in gaining eternal life - it is not simply a case where we say ok God let me have it. Jesus said a Christian must lose their life for His sake and most people still humorously say that there is nothing we can do to inherit eternal life. This nonsense is based on a misunderstanding of the phrase "works of the Law.

I see so many people who still cannot scripturally understand these things. They are still arguing about the same nonsense that they were 30 years ago. No new learning, just adherence to one traditional side of an argument or the other.

Brian

 

[brmicke]

I think God grants us repentance. But we have to want it and of course this is a "work". We actually have to so something besides just give our mental ascent we have to co-operate with the grace of God which teaches us to abstain from ungodliness.

 

[Hoffco]

One of the elemenentary principles of our FAITH is in Heb. 6:1 ".. leaving the discussion the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God." Very obvious, that repentance involves good works and true faith works. The whole book of Hebrews is written to should that those who leave Christ and don't produce a holy life , are lost. Love to all. Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Sorry, the word, "should", should have been ,"show", The predicted apostasy has creep into all our churches today. The time of Jesus return is getting close. We will soon see Israel rebuild their temple. The "man of sin" is about to appear, as the Peace maker for Israel, a treaty will be signed for 7 yrs, and Israel will be at "peace and safety" , but Christ return, the rapture of the Church, will bring in "sudden destruction". Love to all, Hoffco

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Works of law is anything we do to try to justify ourselves before GOD. Cain's offering of the fruit of the earth to GOD was in essence works of law (i.e., look what I did to please you).

Being under law means being a member of the old covenant and being bound by its laws.

This is the work of God: that you believe into Jesus, whom the father set apart.

 

[phil36]

Hi brmckie,

This has been a major discussion for a while now and there tonnes of books concerning it and Justification. It depends on what Paul meant by 'works of the law' and concerning how one becomes a child of God or membership into the covenant people.

It could be taken as the ritual ie, circumcision, dietry laws etc. or it could mean still being under the whole law as in the OT sense.

Paul was talking to those Christians who had been trouble by Judaizers, those who said that in order to be a Christian you needed 'works of the law'. How did they understand this.. to the Jew was this a work unto salvation or was it a badge of identity. a marker of membership. Where it gets complicated is the fact is where the Jews already members of God's covenant people and therefore the law did not save them but kept them as covenant people. like a school master, or where they dependant on it to become a covenant member like a school master driving them to Jesus.

When Jesus argued with the leaders, that is the Pharisees, sadducess and scribes of the law.. was he condemning the for trying to observe the law, or for adding to it and demanding the people do also. even though no man could..as in they became to see this as their salvation.

Its not an easy question to answer.

 

[homwardbound]

1. If a study is done of the verses that mention the law you will find that the phrase "works of the Law" does not mean keeping the Law of God. It refers to the "works" mandated by the Law of Moses in order to be forgiven and again be in right standing with God.

If a person sinned they must co-operate with the law of Moses and offer the appropriate sacrifice to obtain forgiveness. That is the "works of the Law".

If a person had sinned under the old covenant they had to do what the law required to be forgiven.

If we sin we still have to appeal to God through a sacrifice for sin. That sacrifice is Jesus.

2. If a study is done of the term "under the Law" it will be seen that the phrase refers to a person who has sinned and needs to appeal to God through the sacrifice for forgiveness.

If a person is under grace they are in compliance or co-operation with the Law and have abstained from ungodliness.

3. This mixed up theology of works vs grace is a non existent doctrinal stance and is extra biblical.

Do we have to do any works --- We must lose our lives. Is that not the biggest work we can do. Is not repentance a work?

Again if a person will do a study of all the verses mentioning the word "works" particularly as the word applies to this topic they will find that the context, except for a very few verses, always refers to the "works of the Law" as was mentioned previously.

Works of the Law ------ Trying to be right with God, by one's own efforts in what hey do or do not do? In hopes that they will be noticed, and those that do are usually noticed, but not before God
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

It is by Faith (belief) "into" God that one is saved, and is shown by God's works being done through them as was in Jesus's day.
Is also for us all who believe God today as well.
Again this is a belief "into" God. Not I just say I believe and go and steal, lie, kill and destroy, saying I am forgiven (even though we are) I can just do this or that with no consequence, thanks God for forgiving me and not have Mercy as God has shown you he has, or how will any of us escape if we take this grace for granted and not believe "into" God through Christ
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
God through Son, Christ did this for us all if we will read the verses and read them in context:

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2 Timothy 1:9 who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Timothy 3:15 and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I see all by Faith in Christ and the reception of the Holy Ghost I see no works of the Law. I do see works though and they are God's not mine
Hope this helps in seeing through unto Love that goes on forever and that God is Love.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:13[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

So let us leave and move onto perfection found in Christ and hidden in the cross of, maybe?

 

[homwardbound]

Hi brmckie,

This has been a major discussion for a while now and there tonnes of books concerning it and Justification. It depends on what Paul meant by 'works of the law' and concerning how one becomes a child of God or membership into the covenant people.

It could be taken as the ritual ie, circumcision, dietry laws etc. or it could mean still being under the whole law as in the OT sense.

Paul was talking to those Christians who had been trouble by Judaizers, those who said that in order to be a Christian you needed 'works of the law'. How did they understand this.. to the Jew was this a work unto salvation or was it a badge of identity. a marker of membership. Where it gets complicated is the fact is where the Jews already members of God's covenant people and therefore the law did not save them but kept them as covenant people. like a school master, or where they dependant on it to become a covenant member like a school master driving them to Jesus.

When Jesus argued with the leaders, that is the Pharisees, sadducess and scribes of the law.. was he condemning the for trying to observe the law, or for adding to it and demanding the people do also. even though no man could..as in they became to see this as their salvation.

Its not an easy question to answer.

No matter easily answered, either what you do her in this life is of God or it is not, for we all along with all our works, whether of God through us or of self for self gain will go through the fire
[h=3]1 Corinthians 3:1-16[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Sectarianism Is Carnal[/h]3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; [SUP]3 [/SUP]for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? [SUP]4 [/SUP]For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
[h=3]Watering, Working, Warning[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? [SUP]6 [/SUP]I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. [SUP]10 [/SUP]According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, [SUP]13 [/SUP]each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

[homwardbound]

Hi brmckie,

This has been a major discussion for a while now and there tonnes of books concerning it and Justification. It depends on what Paul meant by 'works of the law' and concerning how one becomes a child of God or membership into the covenant people.

It could be taken as the ritual ie, circumcision, dietry laws etc. or it could mean still being under the whole law as in the OT sense.

Paul was talking to those Christians who had been trouble by Judaizers, those who said that in order to be a Christian you needed 'works of the law'. How did they understand this.. to the Jew was this a work unto salvation or was it a badge of identity. a marker of membership. Where it gets complicated is the fact is where the Jews already members of God's covenant people and therefore the law did not save them but kept them as covenant people. like a school master, or where they dependant on it to become a covenant member like a school master driving them to Jesus.

When Jesus argued with the leaders, that is the Pharisees, sadducess and scribes of the law.. was he condemning the for trying to observe the law, or for adding to it and demanding the people do also. even though no man could..as in they became to see this as their salvation.

Its not an easy question to answer.

not to mention flesh again, but here it goes

1. Galatians 5:16
   [ Walking in the Spirit ] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
   Galatians 5:15-17 (in Context) Galatians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

 

[homwardbound]

so today one is either of the flesh or the Spirit of God and tomorrow does one know what one will be unless they learn to die daily with Christ and be alive daily with God. Thus claim as Paul
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

So is this for you too as well or is the works of the Law for us so we can boast and pat each other on the back?

 

[phil36]

Hi homeward bound,

I agree that Christians are not under the law...but obligated to follow the moral law or ethics.

But the question still remains what did Paul actually mean by 'works of the law' in context.

 

[brmicke]

Hi - This is not really that hard. Here are the verses that use the phrase "works of the Law in the NT. There are only 7 of them.

1. Mt 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, {phylacteries: pieces of parchment containing sentences of the law }

The verse above can be basically eliminated from our discussion because it is speaking about making a show for others to see.

2. Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Who can boast of their accomplishments and say that their accomplishments contribute to their righteousness before God.
No one can, because Paul concluded that - a person must have faith to be just before God and that a person is not made right or just before God by making a sacrifice after they sin. Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds or works of the law.

So there can be no boasting between us because we are all made just before God by having faith.

3. Ro 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; There were some people who were trying to be right with God by doing the works of the Law. So what are these works? Well what work does the law tell a person to do? Have no other God before me - no of course not this is"keeping the Law" it is not a "work of the law".

The Law said that to be forgiven a person must make a sacrifice to be in right standing with God. While transitioning from the Ot to the Nt some believers stumbled over the stumbling stone. Jesus is that stumbling stone and He replaced every sacrifice and now under the New Covenant in order to be forgiven for a transgression of the law (sin) we simply confess the sin to Him.

4. Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

No man shall be made just before God (justified) by the blood of Goats and bulls (the works or sacrifices of the Law).
But the law required them to be made until the time of Christ - Gal 3:19.

5. Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6. Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:2 and 5 are basically the saying the same thing. This shortens the list of Nt verses that mention the "works of the Law to 5. God gives us the Holy Spirit when we express faith, not when we make a sacrifice after we sin.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must 1. believe that he is, and 2. that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7. Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (KJV)

Cursed is the word used for a person who has broken the law. So the people trying to be justified by keeping the Law had not kept the law. Scripture could not call them cursed unless they had violated the law. These people had violated the Law because the law says - Abraham was justified by faith. So faith is the way to be justified before God. If a person tries be just before God in any other way it is a violation of the law or a transgression or a sin.

Just go over each verse that uses the phrase "works of the Law" in the Nt and let the bible define the concept for us. Come to a conclusion and then tie them together.

Brian

 

[brmicke]

This statement of yours defines the difficulty homeward bound.

Works of the Law ------ Trying to be right with God, by one's own efforts in what hey do or do not do? In hopes that they will be noticed, and those that do are usually noticed, but not before God

Trying to be right with God by one's own efforts is not the scriptural definition of the "works of the Law.

1. Moses was given the Law of God.
2. If a person sinned there were specific "works" that they had to perform in order to be forgiven.

All Christians have to make an effort to be right with God. If that were not the case God would simply "accept every person" and we could all go directly to heaven and eternal life.

 

[brmicke]

There is a sense in which physical circumcision is the "work" that Paul tries to refute. I think we all know that physical circumcision is a Ot shadow of "Circumcision of the heart" or removing the fleshly tendencies from our hearts.

I have never known anyone who said you must be physically circumcised to be acceptable to God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

All Christians have to make an effort to be right with God. If that were not the case God would simply "accept every person" and we could all go directly to heaven and eternal life.

Faith makes one right with GOD; faith and love maintains that rightness. Anything beyond this is, in essence, 'works of law'

 

[homwardbound]

Hi homeward bound,

I agree that Christians are not under the law...but obligated to follow the moral law or ethics.

But the question still remains what did Paul actually mean by 'works of the law' in context.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Was Saul under the "works of the Law" was he not brought up a Pharisee
Here is the "works of the Law, the Mosaic Law, under a curse, as Saul was and changed to trust in God over the Law that he was righteous in doing

[h=3]Philippians 3:4-6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

And no we are not obligated to follow any moral law or ethic either. We do this as in response to God's love for us at the cross
1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.
No one Loves anymore that what they believe they are loved, and the same with forgiving.
So if you are loved as far as the east is from the west, I know what my response is and do. The same is with being forgiven.

[h=3][/h]

 

[homwardbound]

This statement of yours defines the difficulty homeward bound.



Trying to be right with God by one's own efforts is not the scriptural definition of the "works of the Law.

1. Moses was given the Law of God.
2. If a person sinned there were specific "works" that they had to perform in order to be forgiven.

All Christians have to make an effort to be right with God. If that were not the case God would simply "accept every person" and we could all go directly to heaven and eternal life.

Thanks much meat there and am eating, appreciate your response in seeing this way

 

[homwardbound]

There is a sense in which physical circumcision is the "work" that Paul tries to refute. I think we all know that physical circumcision is a Ot shadow of "Circumcision of the heart" or removing the fleshly tendencies from our hearts.

I have never known anyone who said you must be physically circumcised to be acceptable to God.

it is a work of the Law of Moses though correct?