What are weaknesses of your beliefs?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#1
For example, if you are a calvinist, what weaknesses of calvinism you are aware of?

If you are a dispensationalist, what weaknesses of dispensational theology do you know of and sometimes make you doubt?

If you believe in young earth creationism, in old earth creationism, in evolution, in literal inspiration of Scriptures etc etc... do you have something you worry about in the area?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#2
Flat Earth! FLAT EARTH!!!!!!

weakness?

(I don't really believe in flat earth, but)

FLAT EARTH RULES!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#3
...do you have something you worry about in the area?
If a Christian has to worry about this, it is high time for him or her to get serious about Bible study. And if that person is not saved, none of it will make sense anyhow.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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#4
The Noah flood of approximately 5,000 years ago.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#6
This is precisely why im not a *anythingism* because im not locked in yet. Why? Because ALL of them have weaknesses and problems, some more than others. Im still trying to match it all together

But in order to not make my reply just an empty plate, i'll answer from the point of view of some of the views ive considered:

Calvinism definately has biblical backing when it comes to PREDESTINATION of things, the election of Israel in the OT, the lack of prophets and missionaries sent to nations outside of Israel, all these prove that God had very little interest in dealing with the majority of the world outside of Israel. It can also take verses like Ezekiel 36:25-26 John 6:44 etc. at face value, which is always something good.

HOWEVER: It cannot take verses like 1 tim 2:1-4 at face value. It also cannot deal with the fact that God pleads for everyone to repent, especially His people Israel in the OT. Had it been the calvinist system in effect back then, GOd could have just GIVEN Israel the gift of repentance and faith, and He wouldn't of needed to be commanding them to do something constantly they cant do and wont do because God refuses to give them the gift of repentance and saying "what more could i have done for you?" (in case someone thinks thats not in the bible, looky here: Isaiah 5:4)

Dispensationalism I enjoy for its literal interpretation, and an organized approach to scripture. I also like it how dispensationalist preacher are the most aware of current events, many consider that a negative but I believe its smart to WATCH whats going on. The irony is that while they are watching the most, they also believe they wont see the antichrist, so there is that level of irony there lol. I also believe that some of the best preachers of our day have been dispensationalists.

What I dislike is the tendency by some (not all I said some like robert breaker, gene kim, etc.) to play down the words of Jesus to the point where its all for the jews the jews the jews. And the overall sharp distinction between church and israel is something that just isnt there in the NT. We have one people of God, made up of both jews and gentiles. And its the church, and everyone saved jew or gentile will be part of that one people, that will inherit all the promises in Christ . (if ye are Christ's ye are Abraham's seed etc.)

Now as to what I believed by reading the Bible with no commentary and no man to teach me: I believed in historical premillennialism. Meaning, there is one people of God, church is not the replacement of Israel, but rather Christ is the fulfillment of the seed of Abraham and all who are in Christ, JEW OR GENTILE inherit the promises made. There is a literal physical millennium where Jesus will rule the nations from Jerusalem.
I saw the famous rapture passage as just referring to the resurrection when Jesus returns at the second coming, before the millennium, and the mystery Paul told the corinthians was the fact that they would be changed immediatealy if they were alive at the second coming.

What are the difficulties with what I got by just reading the Bible? Well It has taken me a while to think of what to write here but I think the biggest problems would be that: Who populates the millennium? Zechariah says that there are some people left from those nations who attack Jerusalem, who go to celebrate the feast of booths, so there is that. (this seems to contradict 2 thess 1:6-( though, anyone know explanation to match em together?)
Another problem would be animal sacrifices, if I claim to take the scriptures literally, it would be hypocritical of me to spiritualize the animal sacrifices WHILE maintaining the rest of the chapter like Zechariah 14 are literal, especially since there is no reason to indicate they are spiritual or symbolic.
Another problem would be yet again in Zechariah 14:3-5 where the israelites are escaping, when Jesus returns and splits the mount of olives. Now why is that a problem? Because, I assume (and i believe correctly) that these Israelites escaping here are SAVED PEOPLE, which would mean that when Jesus returns to the mount of olives, THEY SHOULD BE RAPTURED/TRANSLATED THEN, instead of just staying there in the flesh and in the text there is no mention of a translation occuring.

Thats quite alot of text, I doubt anyone will read this but hey. I tried to be objective and impartial as much as possible. I believe EVERY position has some kinds of tough verses for it, otherwise we wouldnt have so many views.

For example: Jesus says many times the resurrection is at the LAST DAY, thats a tough verse if you believe in the pre-trib rapture. Another example: IF you believe in the post-trib rapture, you are stuck with the dilemma of 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 which seems to contradict Zechariah 14:16. Paul says ALL those who dont obey the gospel will be destroyed, Zechariah 14:16 says they will live and come to celebrate the feast of booths. What say, ye post-tribber? [Or anyone else?]
 
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#7
"It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."

- Mark Twain
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#8
"And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16).

During the Millennium, people will be lost or saved based on their relationship to the King. Those that reject Him will be the ones that gather together with Satan at the last battle. Those that are in a right relationship with the Lord will not--so they will not be summarily destroyed. They, like any other person that knows the Lord (Jew and Gentile) will enter into eternity and will enjoy life.

The verse in I Thessalonians is speaking of the destruction of those that rebelled and rejected the King.

Point of clarification . . . it is the NATIONS that come against Jerusalem -- but that does not mean that 100% of the population of those nations will be in rebellion against the King.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#9
"And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zechariah 14:16).

During the Millennium, people will be lost or saved based on their relationship to the King. Those that reject Him will be the ones that gather together with Satan at the last battle. Those that are in a right relationship with the Lord will not--so they will not be summarily destroyed. They, like any other person that knows the Lord (Jew and Gentile) will enter into eternity and will enjoy life.

The verse in I Thessalonians is speaking of the destruction of those that rebelled and rejected the King.

Point of clarification . . . it is the NATIONS that come against Jerusalem -- but that does not mean that 100% of the population of those nations will be in rebellion against the King.
I assume you meant 2 thessalonians instead of 1? If thats the case, do you mean to say that its talking about the end of the millennium in 2 thess 1:6-8? And zechariah 14:16 is talking about millennium right after the second coming?
 
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#10
Yes, second Thessalonians. They are speaking of the end of the Millennium in both passages.

"When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day" (II Thessalonians 1:10).

His, and our, glorification will occur at the beginning of eternity.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#11
Yes, second Thessalonians. They are speaking of the end of the Millennium in both passages.

"When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day" (II Thessalonians 1:10).

His, and our, glorification will occur at the beginning of eternity.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. Wouldn't that be the second coming? Jesus is on the earth during the millennium, so He wouldn't be revealed from heaven at the end of it, no?
 
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#12
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. Wouldn't that be the second coming? Jesus is on the earth during the millennium, so He wouldn't be revealed from heaven at the end of it, no?
He is revealed as King Messiah at the beginning of the Millennium, He is then revealed as King of the Universe, very God of very God at the end when He wipes out Satan like a bug and opens up the Lake of Fire and the books are opened.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#13
He is revealed as King Messiah at the beginning of the Millennium, He is then revealed as King of the Universe, very God of very God at the end when He wipes out Satan like a bug and opens up the Lake of Fire and the books are opened.
I got one better: 2 Thes 1:7 is the second coming. And so in ZEchariah.

Did you notice that nowhere in Zechariah 14:16 does it say that those who remain from the nations that attack jerusalem were UNSAVED? It doesnt say that.

Could it be its saying something like this: Lets say Sweden attacks Jerusalem, right, not all swedes are part of the attack, some might be saved, but their nationality is still 'swedish'. Could it be like this?
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#14
I got one better: 2 Thes 1:7 is the second coming. And so in ZEchariah.

Did you notice that nowhere in Zechariah 14:16 does it say that those who remain from the nations that attack jerusalem were UNSAVED? It doesnt say that.

Could it be its saying something like this: Lets say Sweden attacks Jerusalem, right, not all swedes are part of the attack, some might be saved, but their nationality is still 'swedish'. Could it be like this?
I am speaking of the Millennium. No one that is unsaved makes it out alive, so to speak. Every single unbeliever will rally to Satan's conscript to form an army with one purpose--to destroy Jerusalem and wipe out the Jewish people once and for all.

All who are left to enter eternity are all believers.

Zechariah does not have to say SAVED or UNSAVED, that is why Scripture interprets Scripture.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#15
Yes, second Thessalonians. They are speaking of the end of the Millennium in both passages.

"When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day" (II Thessalonians 1:10).

His, and our, glorification will occur at the beginning of eternity.
No, no, Jesus is already glorified. When He returns He will be in the glorified form. Too many scriptures says so.

I think if we were to lay eyes on Jesus today, He would reflect the glory of the Father.

Revelation 1:12-16: “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.”

Matthew 16:27: “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

Matthew 24:30: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Matthew 25:31: “When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:”

Luke 21:27: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

Mark 8:38: “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

Mark 13:26: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”

John 17:5: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

Revelation 19:11-16:
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, with that it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

good-job-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
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#16
I accept what you are saying and I may have misspoke, however when eternity begins after the new heaven and the new earth is established . . . I'm thinking that His glorification will be even more glorified. At the very least, he'll have garments that are no longer spotted with the blood of His enemies.

Some of the verses you quoted apply to this period . . . and really, Scripture doesn't deal as fully as we might like with that phase of human existence. Sometimes we just got to use a little sanctified imagination.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
#17
what's should be our response to someone who considers us to be "sheltered"?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#20
If you are witnessing for the Lord you are anything but sheltered . . .
You can say that again. We have declared war on the god of this world system. Even though God has a hedge around us, He lets the effects of Satan through enough to keep us on our toes. Don't go out without you armor. :eek: