what are your thoughts of Apostle Kathryn Krick

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SophieT

Guest
there is no defense for Miss Kate. if you sit down and eat at her table, you will choke on the food

maybe not now or even next year, but no one can sustain the demonic influence she is operating under forever unless they are completely given over to satan and even then, it is a big drain on human flesh

the demonic influence operating through her mentor only has the authority a person gives to it
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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oh calm down

I didn't lie about you

I do not know why you are so upset when you CONSTANTLY either put words in other people's mouths or just downright create misleading posts about what they said and since you mentioned lying...well, that too

you're welcome
Not intentional I do not. I can misunderstand someone and you can too, my posts apparently.

I do not recall ever blatantly twisting someone's post to make it seem like they did something close to the unpardonable sin.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
Not intentional I do not. I can misunderstand someone and you can too, my posts apparently.

I do not recall ever blatantly twisting someone's post to make it seem like they did something close to the unpardonable sin.
you are doing it again

who said anything about the unpardonable sin?

so obvious and so subtle at the same time

so, what about Miss Kate? you a believer or not?

I don't suppose you would commit to a response either way because you certainly have not in 22 pages and 423 posts :whistle:
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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you are welcome to stand in a line of folks waiting to 'hear a word from the Lord' but I will refrain and I do not care who partakes of that 'Christian' fortune telling
Calling it 'fortune telling' makes it sound occultic. It makes it sound like crystal balls and tarot cards. But the Old Testament shows that it is a Biblical practice to consult the LORD through a prophet about the future.

Biblical to Consult with a Prophet about the Future
Deuteronomy 18 forbids going to soothsayers, cloud-readers, those with familiar spirits, etc. But it specifically allows going to the prophet. We get plenty of clues and direct accounts of how this functioned. An Israelite could enquire of the LORD as to the location of his father's missing donkeys. Paul did. This was a 'kosher' thing to do. We often see that kings inquired of the LORD before making important decisions that affected the nation, like going to war. Jehoshaphat wanted to ask a true prophet of the LORD instead of Ahab's 'yes-man' prophets that even Ahab did not think were genuine.

There were other legitimate means of getting direction from God-- the Urim and Thummin and dreams. Saul erred in going to the witch of Endor. When God was not speaking to him through prophets, dreams, or Urim, he went to the wrong source. (I Samuel 28:6.) David was using the ephod and inquiring of the Lord, so maybe it still had the Thummin in it. Joshua and the apostles cast lots. Proverbs says the lot falls in the lap, but the decision is of the LORD.

Elijah confronted Ahaziah's messengers when he was injured and sent to ask Baalzebub, the god of Ekron about it. "Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?" (II Kings 1:3.)

If Ahaziah had inquired of the Lord through proper means, that would not have been a sin.

Sometimes the LORD focused on another topic or said something different from what inquirers wanted. Saul wanted to know about donkeys. Samuel addressed that, but Samuel prophesied about other things. The remaining Judeans who inquired through Jeremiah after the captivity started probably did not hear what they wanted to.

The word 'prophet' is used in the NT scriptures to refer to both the prophets in the OT and church prophets. Agabus gave a personal word. God never said it was a sin to inquire of the Lord through a prophet. Nor did He say He would not answer such requests.

Some Charismatics and Pentecostals are too extreme in that they use 'fortune telling' to describe personal prophecies or lining up to be prophesied over.

If someone does line up to get prophesied over, I have no basis for condemning them, judging them, saying snarky things, etc. Prophecy is one of the manifestations of the Spirit given as the Spirit wills for the common good. We should respect the Holy Spirit. We should expect the grace of God that works through spiritual gifts. The scriptures say to earnestly desire spiritual gifts, especially that ye may prophesy. Covet to prophesy. Despise not prophesyings.

We were outside a late night meeting in Indonesia with an intention of going home. Some people had found out that my wife prophesied, so they ended up sort of lining up like that. I hadn't seen her flow like that in personal prophesy, but one after another. I didn't know the people so it wasn't a case where I could say, wow, you said such and such and this person is a dentist.... or missionary.

But years later since people have gotten on Facebook, she's gotten some feedback. She prophesied over one young man about his doing ministry and the leadership role he would have. He messaged her and said that when she said that he was a janitor. Indonesia seems a bit more class conscious and people probably have less mobility moving up the ladder for jobs and things like that. But this man was now the head of a Christian non-profit, doing ministry, and he said her prophecies came to pass. Also, she prophesied over a brother who had been put in jail for preaching due to 'blasphemy laws' and he said her prophecies had come to pass.

What I noticed when she was prophesying on that occasion I mentioned is how people were hungry, and she was willing to minister, and the gifting flowed, but I didn't see her flowing in that sort of thing all time.

If you do have a stranger prophesy over you and you do not know the person or if the words have come to pass, you might have a little less to go on as far as evaluating the word. In the assembly, if the church takes an active role in judging/weighing carefully, you also can get that input. One might need to spend a little more time or prayer discerning the word. Some prophecies encourage but do not actually require us to do anything in particular, or tell us to do things we already know we should do.

there is an example of Paul receiving a prophecy and it seems some have made a doctrine out of it
All scripture is profitable for doctrine, as Paul wrote to Timothy. And there is also a huge Old Testament history about prophesyings. Ahijah the Shilonite prophesied over Jeroboam. One of the sons of the prophets prophesied about Jehu. What kind of prophecy did Saul hope to get through Samuel-- something specific about his father's donkeys and where they were. Samuel had a lot more to say. Think about Nathan's prophecy to David. Read the Kings and Chronicles books.

@SophieT this is an example of Bible-based posts that I make that address the doctrinal aspects of a topic.

I have had many confirm whatever gifts the Holy Spirit has given to me but I knew about them before hand and I do not allow anyone to push me one way or another...Moses has served his purpose and boy do I know how that will be received but it is not my problem
I don't know exactly what you mean by Moses serving his purpose. I think we can all agree on that. I also believe what the New Testament teaches about prophesying too. I do not see a contradiction between that and Moses.

Also, if God has not limited Himself in scripture to only confirming what people already know, people have no right to try to do so. There are too many Biblical counterexamples to this idea.

Paul was single minded in his purpose and the prophecy, though true, did not deter him
He may also have had a head of vowed hair to turn in at the temple. Maybe that had something to do with James and the elders suggesting his going into the temple to pay the the vows of other men

This verse is a bit more controversial and interpreted different ways. Some people seem to think the 's' should be small.
Acts 21
4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

I may know something will happen, but that does not mean I alter my life because it, whatever it is, will happen
If Moses had thought that way instead of interceding for Israel when God threatened to wipe them out and make a nation of Moses, what would have happened? What if Hezekiah had thought that way when Isaiah prophesied to get his house in order, instead of praying and having more years added to his life? I'm also thinking about Jeremiah 18.

again, this post is all about you. you do not make doctrine true.

it seems you cannot post unless referring to your own whatever and while that may help you, this is a forum and your experience is subjective. yes it is
I use personal experiences and facts to illustrate things. I see Paul doing it in Acts and the epistles.

If you try to tell atheists that the Bible is 'objective' not 'subjective' and that the prophets, etc. when they got revelations, that there was no 'subjective' element to them receiving it, do not ask me to back you up in that conversation. Subjective or objective, what we say and right to should edifying, not discouraging, complaining, or quarrelling.

I do not despise what the Bible says...but I heartily despise much of the goings on the church entertains itself with
Was this in response to 'Despise not prophesying.' That is followed by 'Prove all things.' Hold fast to that which is good I think we could both agree that Paul is not saying to test the Bible and see if it is true and reject it if it is not good. He is talking about prophesying there in I Thessalonians 5.

We should not despise prophesying. We should consider them, not just dismiss them out of town. If someone gives a specific personal word over someone else, even if it is in response to asking the one prophesying "Did you hear anything from God about me?" or "Could you pray and ask God if He says anything about X about me?" we shouldn't despise it based on that criteria. The Bible does not condemn such types of prophecies and we see examples of asking for specific answers to questions like that in the Bible. There are numerous Biblical examples of so-called 'personal prophecies', including one post-ascension example.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Calling it 'fortune telling' makes it sound occultic. It makes it sound like crystal balls and tarot cards. But the Old Testament shows that it is a Biblical practice to consult the LORD through a prophet about the future. (is that the norm today?)

Biblical to Consult with a Prophet about the Future
Deuteronomy 18 forbids going to soothsayers, cloud-readers, those with familiar spirits, etc. But it specifically allows going to the prophet. We get plenty of clues and direct accounts of how this functioned. An Israelite could enquire of the LORD as to the location of his father's missing donkeys. Paul did. This was a 'kosher' thing to do. We often see that kings inquired of the LORD before making important decisions that affected the nation, like going to war. Jehoshaphat wanted to ask a true prophet of the LORD instead of Ahab's 'yes-man' prophets that even Ahab did not think were genuine.

There were other legitimate means of getting direction from God-- the Urim and Thummin and dreams. Saul erred in going to the witch of Endor. When God was not speaking to him through prophets, dreams, or Urim, he went to the wrong source. (I Samuel 28:6.) David was using the ephod and inquiring of the Lord, so maybe it still had the Thummin in it. Joshua and the apostles cast lots. Proverbs says the lot falls in the lap, but the decision is of the LORD.

Elijah confronted Ahaziah's messengers when he was injured and sent to ask Baalzebub, the god of Ekron about it. "Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?" (II Kings 1:3.)

If Ahaziah had inquired of the Lord through proper means, that would not have been a sin.

Sometimes the LORD focused on another topic or said something different from what inquirers wanted. Saul wanted to know about donkeys. Samuel addressed that, but Samuel prophesied about other things. The remaining Judeans who inquired through Jeremiah after the captivity started probably did not hear what they wanted to.

The word 'prophet' is used in the NT scriptures to refer to both the prophets in the OT and church prophets. Agabus gave a personal word. God never said it was a sin to inquire of the Lord through a prophet. Nor did He say He would not answer such requests.

Some Charismatics and Pentecostals are too extreme in that they use 'fortune telling' to describe personal prophecies or lining up to be prophesied over.

If someone does line up to get prophesied over, I have no basis for condemning them, judging them, saying snarky things, etc. Prophecy is one of the manifestations of the Spirit given as the Spirit wills for the common good. We should respect the Holy Spirit. We should expect the grace of God that works through spiritual gifts. The scriptures say to earnestly desire spiritual gifts, especially that ye may prophesy. Covet to prophesy. Despise not prophesyings. (Prophesying is not mean one is a prophet)

We were outside a late night meeting in Indonesia with an intention of going home. Some people had found out that my wife prophesied, so they ended up sort of lining up like that. I hadn't seen her flow like that in personal prophesy, but one after another. I didn't know the people so it wasn't a case where I could say, wow, you said such and such and this person is a dentist.... or missionary.

But years later since people have gotten on Facebook, she's gotten some feedback. She prophesied over one young man about his doing ministry and the leadership role he would have. He messaged her and said that when she said that he was a janitor. Indonesia seems a bit more class conscious and people probably have less mobility moving up the ladder for jobs and things like that. But this man was now the head of a Christian non-profit, doing ministry, and he said her prophecies came to pass. Also, she prophesied over a brother who had been put in jail for preaching due to 'blasphemy laws' and he said her prophecies had come to pass.

What I noticed when she was prophesying on that occasion I mentioned is how people were hungry, and she was willing to minister, and the gifting flowed, but I didn't see her flowing in that sort of thing all time.

If you do have a stranger prophesy over you and you do not know the person or if the words have come to pass, you might have a little less to go on as far as evaluating the word. In the assembly, if the church takes an active role in judging/weighing carefully, you also can get that input. One might need to spend a little more time or prayer discerning the word. Some prophecies encourage but do not actually require us to do anything in particular, or tell us to do things we already know we should do.



All scripture is profitable for doctrine, as Paul wrote to Timothy. And there is also a huge Old Testament history about prophesyings. Ahijah the Shilonite prophesied over Jeroboam. One of the sons of the prophets prophesied about Jehu. What kind of prophecy did Saul hope to get through Samuel-- something specific about his father's donkeys and where they were. Samuel had a lot more to say. Think about Nathan's prophecy to David. Read the Kings and Chronicles books.

@SophieT this is an example of Bible-based posts that I make that address the doctrinal aspects of a topic.



I don't know exactly what you mean by Moses serving his purpose. I think we can all agree on that. I also believe what the New Testament teaches about prophesying too. I do not see a contradiction between that and Moses.

Also, if God has not limited Himself in scripture to only confirming what people already know, people have no right to try to do so. There are too many Biblical counterexamples to this idea.



He may also have had a head of vowed hair to turn in at the temple. Maybe that had something to do with James and the elders suggesting his going into the temple to pay the the vows of other men

This verse is a bit more controversial and interpreted different ways. Some people seem to think the 's' should be small.
Acts 21
4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.



If Moses had thought that way instead of interceding for Israel when God threatened to wipe them out and make a nation of Moses, what would have happened? What if Hezekiah had thought that way when Isaiah prophesied to get his house in order, instead of praying and having more years added to his life? I'm also thinking about Jeremiah 18.



I use personal experiences and facts to illustrate things. I see Paul doing it in Acts and the epistles.

If you try to tell atheists that the Bible is 'objective' not 'subjective' and that the prophets, etc. when they got revelations, that there was no 'subjective' element to them receiving it, do not ask me to back you up in that conversation. Subjective or objective, what we say and right to should edifying, not discouraging, complaining, or quarrelling.


Was this in response to 'Despise not prophesying.' That is followed by 'Prove all things.' Hold fast to that which is good I think we could both agree that Paul is not saying to test the Bible and see if it is true and reject it if it is not good. He is talking about prophesying there in I Thessalonians 5.

We should not despise prophesying. We should consider them, not just dismiss them out of town. If someone gives a specific personal word over someone else, even if it is in response to asking the one prophesying "Did you hear anything from God about me?" or "Could you pray and ask God if He says anything about X about me?" we shouldn't despise it based on that criteria. The Bible does not condemn such types of prophecies and we see examples of asking for specific answers to questions like that in the Bible. There are numerous Biblical examples of so-called 'personal prophecies', including one post-ascension example.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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@CS1

I cannot think of any examples after Pentecost in Acts 2 where anyone tried to inquire of the Lord through a prophet. But the apostles get a lot more narrative attention in Acts than prophets. But there was a long history of inquiring of the Lord through prophets. We don't have Urim and Thummin available these days, so that's not a practical issue for us. (But what a set of names for a couple of twin boys, right?) I have no basis for condemning it. It probably happens more like, "Would you pray for me about X? If you hear anything from the Lord, let me know?" or inviting people to pray.

I was in on a gathering in a home for a Christian TV ministry in a certain 10-40 window country once. The host had invited my wife, and another man who was gifted prophetically. He came across the table to prophesy to me holding a napkin, and the thought crossed my mind that he might tie my wrists up with it. :) The host, who was on the board, asked for prayer about a situation. He might have asked if anyone heard anything from the Lord to share. I'm not sure if he said that. But I figured his choice of guests was intentional in that he wanted people he thought could hear God, prophesy, etc. Is there anything wrong with that?

The 'would you pray for me' line when someone who prophesies starts flowing in the gift and others see is kind of like this. Instead of asking about a specific topic, they ask for ministry. Occasionally someone might ask if the person doing so heard God for them.

I don't see prophet and prophesying as exactly the same thing. But I would generally expect a prophet to do some prophesying from time to time.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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oh calm down

I didn't lie about you
I was just looking back at your post. It is a terrible, egregious example. I want you to walk right before the Lord, be honest, and love your neighbor and do the same thing. There is just so much snark coming from you, and such an antagonistic attitude, it is hard to have a normal conversation around here.

I wrote,
That is an interesting point about Paul, but it is also possible that it was his first time. She was saying good-sounding words, but they were getting endorsement (or mocking perhaps) from a diviner from the wrong spirit.
This is what you falsely accused me of saying. it doesn't even make sense.
oh please

so what you are really saying, is that the Holy Spirit was not sure
Your reply had nothing to do with what I said. You accused me of attributing something negative to the Spirit. That's a terrible thing.

And instead of apologizing, you get more snarky? Do you ever repent or apologize over anything? This isn't about defending your pride or doing right. This is about living righteously before God. Do you care about those things?

Please don't response with arrogance or snark.

I do not know why you are so upset when you CONSTANTLY either put words in other people's mouths or just downright create misleading posts about what they said and since you mentioned lying...well, that too
I do not intentionally 'put words in people's mouths'. I do ask questions at times based on what they posts-- Socratic type questions I suppose-- which people can answer any way they want. I try not to imply they said something they did not. If I make a mistake, I am willing to apologize. If you can see where I misattributed words or ideas to someone, let me know.
 

Rosemaryx

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May 3, 2017
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Found the above on Katheryn Krick...
It explains how she uses the same actors in her service as others do , like Daniel Adams...
You only need to watch the 1st 5 mins to see the truth...
 
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SophieT

Guest
Calling it 'fortune telling' makes it sound occultic. It makes it sound like crystal balls and tarot cards. But the Old Testament shows that it is a Biblical practice to consult the LORD through a prophet about the future.
and that is exactly what it is. nowhere in scripture do we find a lineup of people hoping for some self-proclaimed prophet type to give them a 'word' from God. nowhere

it is not a biblical practice to consult the Lord through a prophet...we now have one mediator and it is not a prophet.

listen...I'm not bothering with the rest of your post in which you make excuses for unbiblical practices.
 
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SophieT

Guest
our reply had nothing to do with what I said. You accused me of attributing something negative to the Spirit. That's a terrible thing.
that is an out and out lie

and that is a terrible thing
 
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SophieT

Guest
CS1: it's a little difficult to know what you are saying to me since everything is encapsulated in a quote, but I think the following is for me?

I don't know exactly what you mean by Moses serving his purpose. I think we can all agree on that. I also believe what the New Testament teaches about prophesying too. I do not see a contradiction between that and Moses.

Also, if God has not limited Himself in scripture to only confirming what people already know, people have no right to try to do so. There are too many Biblical counterexamples to this idea.
Moses was the mediator between the Israelites and God. We do not need a mediator today...Christ died so that we might have access through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

I will totally disagree with folks lining up to hear something from God. where do we find that in scripture? that is not the role of a prophet...it is what I would call Christian fortune telling. I have been in services where people are so excited and can't wait for the service to end so they can line up and hear all about themselves from someone who supposedly prophesies over 100 or more.

Oh for sure a person can have a 'word' to share with another...I have done so myself. I have no doubt that can be real, but it is severely abused in many places.

this is my viewpoint and anyone who disagrees is free to do so just as I am free to disagree

if there is anything else? not sure because of the way you posted
 
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SophieT

Guest
I will add that while I do believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still available, I do not agree with much of what goes on in Pentecostal churches or Charismatic churches

This is my opinion and it will stand. I do not and will not agree with practices that have led to the type of abomination of people like this Katherine Krick and the NAR. these things did not come out of some Baptist movement or other denom.

Put the word of God first and not so called evidences of the Holy Spirit because it seems to me, many people do not have the discernment to tell if something is really God or not

Further, the devil comes as an angel of light and many are fooled by this and think it is God

That is my stand and I am not going to ever agree with some of the practices described in this thread.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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and that is exactly what it is. nowhere in scripture do we find a lineup of people hoping for some self-proclaimed prophet type to give them a 'word' from God. nowhere

it is not a biblical practice to consult the Lord through a prophet...we now have one mediator and it is not a prophet.
First of all, Jesus IS a Prophet. He is THE Prophet like unto Moses.

The Bible does not say you are allowed to 'line up' to get into a building to assemble with the church, but I've seen it in crowded areas. I don't see any verses about 'lining up' for baptism.

I do see that the Bible allowed Israelites to consult with prophets of the Lord, but not the pagan/occultic--type practioners of the surrounding nations. There are examples of people consulting with prophets to ask about national or personal issues, and this is presented as acceptable. It's in the Old Testament. The New Testament does not give these kinds of examples, but nor is it forbidden. "Is the law sin? No." We should not think the law is sinful. The idea of asking someone prophetically gifted to pray and if God speaks anything to share it is not something scripture condemns.

The Mediator between God and man verse is in a context about people being saved. It is not saying that God cannot use one person to minister to another in a spiritual gift. Read I Corinthians 12. Members of the body are to minister to one another. Gifts are given for the common good. Prophecy is one of many gifts. Ephesians 4 says apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastors and teachers are given for the edifying of the body of Christ. 'Prophets' shows up in a different list of ministries in I Corinthians 12.

We need each other. Someone else prophesying something to you to edify you is not contrary to the idea of Christ being the one Mediator between God and man. That verse is not there to teach us some kind of individualistic 'Jesus and me' Christianity. It is appropriate for members of the body of Christ to minister to one another. If you use 'mediator' to argue against the role of prophet or those gifted in prophecy operating in their gift in these contexts, why not use it to say one should not have the elders pray and anoint with oil when you are sick? You could say never ask anyone to pray for you if you are imprisoned for your faith, because Jesus is the one Mediator...but they prayed for Peter.

Members of the body must minister to one another:

I Peter 4
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

listen...I'm not bothering with the rest of your post in which you make excuses for unbiblical practices.
You say junk like that, despise teachings right out of the scripture, well presented, well argued...praise God for His grace which operates through earthen vessels. You do not offer any specific objections. I would imagine that would be very difficult in this case.

You do not have the right to decide what is right and what is sinful. Calling something 'unbiblical' does not make it wrong or against scripture. Why don't you back up your declarations with scripture? I suppose the reason your posts have comments like this that show disdain and insult rather than real comments is because you can't, but you want to stick to your opinions anyway.

We will give an account for every idle word that we speak. I suspect the typed word will also be considered. You criticized for sharing personal experiences (in these posts full of Biblical argument, btw). I do this to illustrate points-- but do you contribute much more to these discussions other than the type of stuff you put in this post I am responding to? Do you think you are exercising some kind of gift that actually edifies others?

Does insult, snark or disdain edify? The word of God can edify people.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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that is an out and out lie

and that is a terrible thing
This is gaslighting. You said what I was saying was that the Holy Spirit was not sure. There was no way to get that out of my comment."


Here is how you should handle this. You say, "I'm sorry." You seek to be reconciled to your brother, like Jesus actually taught. Read Matthew 5.

You should not get caught up in some kind of pride game where if someone challenges you or disagrees with you, you have defend yourself and prove to others and yourself you are right. A lot of unbelievers have the character and courage to admit when they are wrong, and enough of a desire for conciliation to try to get along with people when they crossed a line.

You should try to live like Jesus taught, like the apostles taught, not just discuss religion on a forum. Talking about the Bible and behaving like a Christian are two different things.

Have I done you any wrong? I am being confrontational to you about real issues here. Is it wrong to confront someone who is out of line in public?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Btw, on 'lining up' for a prophet--- if it is outside of a church gathering, I do not see a specific Biblical problem with it. 'Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge' does not seem to fit situation the line-up, unless their is some attempt to judge after two words or prophets-- depending on how 'two or three' is interpreted as their seems to be a grammatical ambiguity. But prophecies being given in church certainly have an advantage.

I also believe 'personal prophecies' can edify others. The hypothetical unlearned one or unbeliever whose secrets are made manifest by prophecy in I Corinthians 14...experiences this in the assembly. And in the assembly... let all things be done unto edifying.

Be that as it may, I do think the grace to prophesy might flow in spite of a church not following or attempting to follow the two or three rule. Some take 'let the other judge' as a thing individuals do silently or internally. I think of the church deciding to collect money after Agabus' signifying the famine as an application of 'let the other judge.'

The downside is if people line up, and they are getting false words. That's a problem, of course. And that is why some pastors react negatively to the idea of ministry being conducted this way.

People who line up for 'prophetic words' are probably ostensibly lining up for prayer, actually, and some of them might be hoping for a prophetic word.

Random thoughts about some writings around the second century on the subject. The Shepherd of Hermas was against prophecies outside of the assembly, but very positive toward the prophecies from prophets in the church. Hermas also wrote during a time when prophets were actually allowed to prophesy in church, and wouldn't be forced to do so outside the assembly. If they were to prophesy at all. Didache would probably lead someone to a more reverent attitude toward any prophetic utterance from someone deemed to be a prophet or apostle.
 
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SophieT

Guest
"presidente, post: 4791812, member: 164050"]Calling it 'fortune telling' makes it sound occultic. It makes it sound like crystal balls and tarot cards. But the Old Testament shows that it is a Biblical practice to consult the LORD through a prophet about the future.

Biblical to Consult with a Prophet about the Future
Deuteronomy 18 forbids going to soothsayers, cloud-readers, those with familiar spirits, etc. But it specifically allows going to the prophet. We get plenty of clues and direct accounts of how this functioned. An Israelite could enquire of the LORD as to the location of his father's missing donkeys. Paul did. This was a 'kosher' thing to do. We often see that kings inquired of the LORD before making important decisions that affected the nation, like going to war. Jehoshaphat wanted to ask a true prophet of the LORD instead of Ahab's 'yes-man' prophets that even Ahab did not think were genuine.

There were other legitimate means of getting direction from God-- the Urim and Thummin and dreams. Saul erred in going to the witch of Endor. When God was not speaking to him through prophets, dreams, or Urim, he went to the wrong source. (I Samuel 28:6.) David was using the ephod and inquiring of the Lord, so maybe it still had the Thummin in it. Joshua and the apostles cast lots. Proverbs says the lot falls in the lap, but the decision is of the LORD.

is this your practice? you consult OT means to enquire of God? there are no clues or directions on how a believer in Christ should enquire of God. rather, you take opportinity to ascribe to present day believers what those called of God practiced in a day and age, when Christ was unknown. we are now able to enquire ourselves and we do not need to consult cards, tarot or otherwise, dice (similar to the urim and thummin) or dreams to know the will of God

Firstly, THE will of God for all believers everywhere, is that we are to be followers of Jesus and be conformed to HIS image. there is no guesswork about this whatsoever. you seem to continue to present your beliefs as 'feeling' your way through life when we are to renew our minds according to the word of God....should take the guesswork right of things

Elijah confronted Ahaziah's messengers when he was injured and sent to ask Baalzebub, the god of Ekron about it. "Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to inquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?" (II Kings 1:3.)

If Ahaziah had inquired of the Lord through proper means, that would not have been a sin.

Sometimes the LORD focused on another topic or said something different from what inquirers wanted. Saul wanted to know about donkeys. Samuel addressed that, but Samuel prophesied about other things. The remaining Judeans who inquired through Jeremiah after the captivity started probably did not hear what they wanted to.

Again, if you or anyone continues to consult OT means of enquiring of God you will not achieve the directive of the gospel to grow up into Christ and have HIM as head over you. there is no guesswork about that. do NOT make the false claim that I said Christ is not your head. I am speaking generally as I have when referring to your constant personal subjective interactions, most of which are actually not relevant to the op.

The word 'prophet' is used in the NT scriptures to refer to both the prophets in the OT and church prophets. Agabus gave a personal word. God never said it was a sin to inquire of the Lord through a prophet. Nor did He say He would not answer such requests.

yes he did..but this does not create the doctrine you mistakenly believe is the norm for the body of Christ...with Christ as the HEAD

Some Charismatics and Pentecostals are too extreme in that they use 'fortune telling' to describe personal prophecies or lining up to be prophesied over.

If someone does line up to get prophesied over, I have no basis for condemning them, judging them, saying snarky things, etc. Prophecy is one of the manifestations of the Spirit given as the Spirit wills for the common good. We should respect the Holy Spirit. We should expect the grace of God that works through spiritual gifts. The scriptures say to earnestly desire spiritual gifts, especially that ye may prophesy. Covet to prophesy. Despise not prophesyings.

you confuse prophecy with a word of knowledge. in fact, wisdom and a word of knowledge would supersede prophecy but your emphasis is on the prophetic because that is actually the emphasis of all emergent churches and NAR doctrine. NO ONE CAN BUILD ON PROPHECIES AND DREAMS. DOING SO, GOES AGAINST SCRIPTURE. There is no common good in personal prophecy. that is not what the gifts are for. in counselling, one could possibly have unction from the Holy Spirit to help a person in that manner, but a prophecy...that is supposedly foretelling...is not a practice any counsellor who practices with the gospel and scripture as the foundation from which they aid others, would condone.

desire spiritual gifts? sure. if they are used as they are meant to be used and not as some sick parody of what is supposed to be the body of Christ. if everyone is doing it, does not give credence to what it is everyone is doing. let's find that practice in scripture anywhere! in fact, the majority of people DO need leadership with the minority being those who lead. so the everyone, by default alone, becomes the example not set by the Holy Spirit
 
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SophieT

Guest
We were outside a late night meeting in Indonesia with an intention of going home. Some people had found out that my wife prophesied, so they ended up sort of lining up like that. I hadn't seen her flow like that in personal prophesy, but one after another. I didn't know the people so it wasn't a case where I could say, wow, you said such and such and this person is a dentist.... or missionary.

But years later since people have gotten on Facebook, she's gotten some feedback. She prophesied over one young man about his doing ministry and the leadership role he would have. He messaged her and said that when she said that he was a janitor. Indonesia seems a bit more class conscious and people probably have less mobility moving up the ladder for jobs and things like that. But this man was now the head of a Christian non-profit, doing ministry, and he said her prophecies came to pass. Also, she prophesied over a brother who had been put in jail for preaching due to 'blasphemy laws' and he said her prophecies had come to pass.

What I noticed when she was prophesying on that occasion I mentioned is how people were hungry, and she was willing to minister, and the gifting flowed, but I didn't see her flowing in that sort of thing all time.

If you do have a stranger prophesy over you and you do not know the person or if the words have come to pass, you might have a little less to go on as far as evaluating the word. In the assembly, if the church takes an active role in judging/weighing carefully, you also can get that input. One might need to spend a little more time or prayer discerning the word. Some prophecies encourage but do not actually require us to do anything in particular, or tell us to do things we already know we should do.

again, these are not helpful. I can post personal examples of how the Holy Spirit has used certain gifts through me, but that does not give me credence on a forum where half the people do not even believe in the gifts. subjective examples are not proof of anything as can be clearly seen in this very forum by people who do not believe the personal evidence are far more concerned with the abuse and conclude that the gifts are no longer for today.

All scripture is profitable for doctrine, as Paul wrote to Timothy. And there is also a huge Old Testament history about prophesyings. Ahijah the Shilonite prophesied over Jeroboam. One of the sons of the prophets prophesied about Jehu. What kind of prophecy did Saul hope to get through Samuel-- something specific about his father's donkeys and where they were. Samuel had a lot more to say. Think about Nathan's prophecy to David. Read the Kings and Chronicles books.

why so stuck in the OT? could it be you cannot find examples in the new to give credence to your practices? all scripture is profitable but not when you USE it to confirm to yourself that you are prophetic and hold sway over others and convince them of your credibility...again speaking generally

@SophieT this is an example of Bible-based posts that I make that address the doctrinal aspects of a topic.



I don't know exactly what you mean by Moses serving his purpose. I think we can all agree on that. I also believe what the New Testament teaches about prophesying too. I do not see a contradiction between that and Moses.

I explained that in another post...I thought CS1 was addressing me because of the way he encapsulated your post. it seems he really was not doing so

Also, if God has not limited Himself in scripture to only confirming what people already know, people have no right to try to do so. There are too many Biblical counterexamples to this idea.

I do not believe anyone is that ignorant of how scripture confirms or disagrees....perhaps a new Christian or one that is not familiar with their Bible. If you are now professing extra-biblical revelation I heartily disagree. You are in league with NAR if that is the direction you are choosing to take.

God can and does direct us personally, but He is not adding to scripture. a mature Christian knows this and disavows the current trends such as angels being buddy buddy with individuals or being led by dreams or prophecies. I recommend caution before anything else as deception is rampant




He may also have had a head of vowed hair to turn in at the temple. Maybe that had something to do with James and the elders suggesting his going into the temple to pay the the vows of other men

This verse is a bit more controversial and interpreted different ways. Some people seem to think the 's' should be small.
Acts 21
4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.



If Moses had thought that way instead of interceding for Israel when God threatened to wipe them out and make a nation of Moses, what would have happened? What if Hezekiah had thought that way when Isaiah prophesied to get his house in order, instead of praying and having more years added to his life? I'm also thinking about Jeremiah 18.

covered that

I use personal experiences and facts to illustrate things. I see Paul doing it in Acts and the epistles.

your use of personal experience far exceeds anything related to the op and is proof of exactly nothing because of the subjectivity of it in which you give many examples of OT prophets when it is clear that NT prophecy is NOT the same and whereas believers now have the Holy Spirit indwelling them...He may be badly neglected, but He is there just the same and would put these hucksters out of business if people would consult HIM rather than self proclaimed prophets making a buck and getting rich off of other people's ignorance and downright stupidity with their prophecy schools and the like...notice this is also a general remark other than the first sentence which is directed to you

con't

If you try to tell atheists that the Bible is 'objective' not 'subjective' and that the prophets, etc. when they got revelations, that there was no 'subjective' element to them receiving it, do not ask me to back you up in that conversation. Subjective or objective, what we say and right to should edifying, not discouraging, complaining, or quarrelling.

Jesus said if He is lifted up He will draw all men to Him. I find that works.


Was this in response to 'Despise not prophesying.' That is followed by 'Prove all things.' Hold fast to that which is good I think we could both agree that Paul is not saying to test the Bible and see if it is true and reject it if it is not good. He is talking about prophesying there in I Thessalonians 5.

We should not despise prophesying. We should consider them, not just dismiss them out of town. If someone gives a specific personal word over someone else, even if it is in response to asking the one prophesying "Did you hear anything from God about me?" or "Could you pray and ask God if He says anything about X about me?" we shouldn't despise it based on that criteria. The Bible does not condemn such types of prophecies and we see examples of asking for specific answers to questions like that in the Bible. There are numerous Biblical examples of so-called 'personal prophecies', including one post-ascension example

you and I are not agreed on the principals of prophesying and much of what supposedly passes for a prophecy, is actually a word of knowledge. and where is WISDOM in all of the this? sorely neglected. wisdom is not found in confusion or subjectivity or the throwing of discernment to the side because it interferes with the agenda of those who believe in extra-biblical revelations that a spirit has revealed to them...again, discern what is and what is not directed at you. I am in the habit of referring to the op when responding in a thread, even if others neglect it in their haste to redirect the op because they do not see value in it or outright disagree with it. discern
 
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SophieT

Guest
if you cannot reply to the actual post I made presidente, that is deal with what I said the way I dealt with what you actually said, then I will conclude you have no interest in actually discussing

and I don't think anyone could blame me for thinking that at this point