What Changed?

[Rufus]

We are saved By Grace (Gods mercy and compassion paid for by the blood of his sin) THROUGH FAITH

You can;t remove faith from the equation


But the sinner did not chose God. You need to set aside your calvinistic viewpoint and everything you have been taught

the tax collector did not chose God. He called out for Gods mercy and begged for his forgiveness.


Actually from what I remember, Only a few of them came to faith. They rest of them died in the wilderness because of their unbelief

Its no different here.

Jesus died for everyone, Just like the lamb was slaughtered and through it freedom was purchased.

But only those who chose to have faith in God entered the promised land. (Moses is a seperate story)

Again, in john 3. Moses lifted the serpent, that serpent was Gods mercy and compassion offered to everyone that was there. His salvation was free to all who were there. But only those who trusted in God and actually looked to the serpent lived. the rest died in unbelief.

again, Throw away your calvinist playbook. and look to the actual word of God

Then you would be remembering wrongly (Ex 14:31). And this represented quite a change from the way Joshua characterized the Israelites' moral-spiritual condition when they were still under bondage to Pharaoh (Josh 24:2, 14).

Also, I don't "remove faith from the equation". How can I remove faith when faith itself is a Gift from God! ?But to preserve the integrity of the Death simile, then its eminently logical, as well as biblical, that in order to preserve the integrity of the parallels to the simile that speaks to physical and spiritual death, we should understand spiritual death in the same way we understand physical death, that is to say, that in both cases there is no longer any functionality in either realm. Just as the physically dead can no longer function physically once the soul separates from the body, likewise the spiritually dead ceased to function spiritually when Adam sinned and the Spirit departed from him, which is how he DIED on that day of disobedience. Adam was only human being to come into this world indwelt by the Holy Spirit. All the rest of his progeny come into this world cut off (separated) from the life of God in the Spirit; therefore, we all come into this world spiritually stillborn!

And, yes, the tax collector did choose to call out to the one true God (Christ in this case) but not under his own power. It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs -- but on God who has mercy on compassion. For scripture teaches that no one seeks God! And no one seeks Him because the spiritually dead love the darkness and hate God, hate his Son, hate the truth, hate spiritual knowledge, hate wisdom and never choose the fear of the Lord. The Dead have NO HEART for God. Therefore, God must raise his elect up first so that they can respond positively to Gospel truth. There is a reason why the New Covenant is unilateral in nature!

 

[Rufus]

We are saved By Grace (Gods mercy and compassion paid for by the blood of his sin) THROUGH FAITH

You can;t remove faith from the equation


But the sinner did not chose God. You need to set aside your calvinistic viewpoint and everything you have been taught

the tax collector did not chose God. He called out for Gods mercy and begged for his forgiveness.


Actually from what I remember, Only a few of them came to faith. They rest of them died in the wilderness because of their unbelief

Its no different here.

Jesus died for everyone, Just like the lamb was slaughtered and through it freedom was purchased.

But only those who chose to have faith in God entered the promised land. (Moses is a seperate story)

Again, in john 3. Moses lifted the serpent, that serpent was Gods mercy and compassion offered to everyone that was there. His salvation was free to all who were there. But only those who trusted in God and actually looked to the serpent lived. the rest died in unbelief.

again, Throw away your calvinist playbook. and look to the actual word of God

No, Jesus did not die for everyone. Jesus died for his chosen people. God rescued only Abraham's descendants from Egypt; he did did not rescue any Egtyptians. NOR DID GOD INSTITUTE THE PASSOVER FEAST WITH THE EGYPTIANS -- THE FEAST WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE A TYPE OF THE SACRIFICE OF THE SON OF GOD ON THE CROSS. Think about this carefully! God established the Passover only with his elect! And Egypt was a type of world under the dark dominion of Satan.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Then you would be remembering wrongly (Ex 14:31). And this represented quite a change from the way Joshua characterized the Israelites' moral-spiritual condition when they were still under bondage to Pharaoh (Josh 24:2, 14).

Also, I don't "remove faith from the equation". How can I remove faith when faith itself is a Gift from God! ?But to preserve the integrity of the Death simile, then its eminently logical, as well as biblical, that in order to preserve the integrity of the parallels to the simile that speaks to physical and spiritual death, we should understand spiritual death in the same way we understand physical death, that is to say, that in both cases there is no longer any functionality in either realm. Just as the physically dead can no longer function physically once the soul separates from the body, likewise the spiritually dead ceased to function spiritually when Adam sinned and the Spirit departed from him, which is how he DIED on that day of disobedience. Adam was only human being to come into this world indwelt by the Holy Spirit. All the rest of his progeny come into this world cut off (separated) from the life of God in the Spirit; therefore, we all come into this world spiritually stillborn!

And, yes, the tax collector did choose to call out to the one true God (Christ in this case) but not under his own power. It does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs -- but on God who has mercy on compassion. For scripture teaches that no one seeks God! And no one seeks Him because the spiritually dead love the darkness and hate God, hate his Son, hate the truth, hate spiritual knowledge, hate wisdom and never choose the fear of the Lord. The Dead have NO HEART for God. Therefore, God must raise his elect up first so that they can respond positively to Gospel truth. There is a reason why the New Covenant is unilateral in nature!

Yeah your right,

the tax collector was forced to call out to God. He had no choice.

give me a break

and you need to study the exodus story. Because you are missing some very important details.. and interesting you once again ignore john 3

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, Jesus did not die for everyone.

You must have reading comprehension issue

For God so loved the world. That WHOSOEVER (in that world) believes.

Again, just like the story of Moses jesus mentioned. The serpent was able to save everyone, but only those who looked in faith were saved.

Jesus died for his chosen people. God rescued only Abraham's descendants from Egypt; he did did not rescue any Egtyptians. NOR DID GOD INSTITUTE THE PASSOVER FEAST WITH THE EGYPTIANS -- THE FEAST WHICH JUST HAPPENS TO BE A TYPE OF THE SACRIFICE OF THE SON OF GOD ON THE CROSS. Think about this carefully! God established the Passover only with his elect! And Egypt was a type of world under the dark dominion of Satan.

Not found anywhere in scripture

You are not a special person chosen by God while God allows the person next to you to rot in hell not even giving him a chance.

get over yourself !

 

[Rufus]

Yeah your right,

the tax collector was forced to call out to God. He had no choice.

give me a break

and you need to study the exodus story. Because you are missing some very important details.. and interesting you once again ignore john 3

Even if he was "forced" (your perception, not mine!), |God rescued another helpless, powerless man. I'd bet my bottom dollar that that tax collector ain't complain' about what happened to him.

I not only "ignored" John 3 but virtually the entire bible in my last post. What did you expect of me: to write a commentary on this forum on the entire bible? Besides, John 3 doesn't prove what you think it does.

As far as the Exodus is concerned, I have done a great deal of study on it since it is a Type of Spiritual Redemption. Maybe you should take your own advice, since I have already proven you wrong.

 

[Rufus]

You must have reading comprehension issue

For God so loved the world. That WHOSOEVER (in that world) believes.

Again, just like the story of Moses jesus mentioned. The serpent was able to save everyone, but only those who looked in faith were saved.


Not found anywhere in scripture

You are not a special person chosen by God while God allows the person next to you to rot in hell not even giving him a chance.

get over yourself !

What's not found "anywhere in scripture": The Passover account and who it was instituted with? Even at the Last Supper, did Jesus celebrate the Passover with the entire world or with his disciples, notwithstanding the Judas tare in their midst.

And Jn 3:16 doesn't prove that God died for each and every person in the world. The term "world" is very often used in a limited sense. You have to prove that it's used in the distributive sense AND you would have to reconcile more than few contradictory passages that limit the extent of the atonement to boot. So...good luck with that.

Straw man arguments seem to be your forte. I never claimed to be special or even implied it. I consider myself to have been a vile, wretched sinner on whom God had mercy and compassion on, and I know in my heart of hearts I would never have trusted Christ unless God did to me what he did for Peter! My salvation is a miracle.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Even if he was "forced" (your perception, not mine!), |God rescued another helpless, powerless man.

He was not forced. God drew him in, And he was brought to his knees and had to make a choice.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that that tax collector ain't complain' about what happened to him.

Well of course not, But that does not give you an out to put yourself above others.

I not only "ignored" John 3 but virtually the entire bible in my last post. What did you expect of me: to write a commentary on this forum on the entire bible? Besides, John 3 doesn't prove what you think it does.

No but the fact you could not REFTE what I said about John 3 and just ignored it. Just made my point for me

As far as the Exodus is concerned, I have done a great deal of study on it since it is a Type of Spiritual Redemption. Maybe you should take your own advice, since I have already proven you wrong.

Well you should study some more. And take your calvin glasses off while you do it. You may learn something

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What's not found "anywhere in scripture": The Passover account and who it was instituted with? Even at the Last Supper, did Jesus celebrate the Passover with the entire world or with his disciples, notwithstanding the Judas tare in their midst.

And Jn 3:16 doesn't prove that God died for each and every person in the world. The term "world" is very often used in a limited sense. You have to prove that it's used in the distributive sense AND you would have to reconcile more than few contradictory passages that limit the extent of the atonement to boot. So...good luck with that.

I proved it, actually better yet Jesus proved it, by what he said

Notic e He did not say that he so loved the world (elect) that they all will believe

He said he died for the world That WHOEVER (in that world)believes.

Straw man arguments seem to be your forte.

Failure to prove your point and then try to put it all on me is your forte

[quote}I never claimed to be special or even implied it. I consider myself to have been a vile, wretched sinner on whom God had mercy and compassion on, and I know in my heart of hearts I would never have trusted Christ unless God did to me what he did for Peter! My salvation is a miracle.[/QUOTE]

But you still put yourself above others

God chose you, yet did not chose your neighbor. That means he put you above your neighbor. Not below him. Or equal with him.

but you will still deny what is standing right in front of you

 

[Rufus]

He was not forced. God drew him in, And he was brought to his knees and had to make a choice.

Well of course not, But that does not give you an out to put yourself above others.


No but the fact you could not REFTE what I said about John 3 and just ignored it. Just made my point for me

Well you should study some more. And take your calvin glasses off while you do it. You may learn something

Another straw man. You're just full of those aren't you? I''m worse than Paul, who thought of himself as the less than least of the saints; for I am less than the less.

It's easy to refute John 3. At the Last Supper -- the Passover Supper -- that Jesus celebrated with his disciples, he told them plainly when he instituted the New Covenant that it was in his blood that would be shed for MANY. He didn't say for the entire world, or for each and every person in the world. And "many" cannot mean all. Many is a portion of all.

And...I believe in Luke's version of the Last Supper, the text limits it even further by saying that his blood would be shed for YOU, i.e. his disciples at the table and by extension of course all future generations of disciples.

Moreover, John never uses the term "world" in the distributive sense because Jews never thought of themselves as being part of the pagan world (like all Gentile nations were).

 

[Rufus]

I proved it, actually better yet Jesus proved it, by what he said

Notic e He did not say that he so loved the world (elect) that they all will believe

He said he died for the world That WHOEVER (in that world)believes.


Failure to prove your point and then try to put it all on me is your forte

[quote}I never claimed to be special or even implied it. I consider myself to have been a vile, wretched sinner on whom God had mercy and compassion on, and I know in my heart of hearts I would never have trusted Christ unless God did to me what he did for Peter! My salvation is a miracle.

But you still put yourself above others

God chose you, yet did not chose your neighbor. That means he put you above your neighbor. Not below him. Or equal with him.

but you will still deny what is standing right in front of you[/QUOTE]

And the "whoever" limits who he love! The "whoever" actually qualifies the extent of the world.

Well then...your issue is with God if that's what you think. You must think God would be unfair if he did that, right? As though he's morally obligated to save anyone? Does God have a duty to perform to man?

And why are you so ignorant of the scriptures? Don't you know that God does all things for his own glory -- not man's? And he does all things for his good pleasure, not man's? And he does things for his purpose, not man's? And that God's sovereign will is not contingent upon man? But...I give you this: You are the KING of STRAW [my] Man.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm already assured of God's love for me.

I would be interested to know what led you to believe I don't.

If I thought what you just said, I would have that, I did not say that, I shared what you asked<. You do not get it. Okay. So I said to you, it is God the only one that can reveal what is truth to you.

 

[Cameron143]

If I thought what you just said, I would have that, I did not say that, I shared what you asked<. You do not get it. Okay. So I said to you, it is God the only one that can reveal what is truth to you.

Okay. What leads you to believe God doesn't share truth with me?

 

[homwardbound]

But you still put yourself above others

God chose you, yet did not chose your neighbor. That means he put you above your neighbor. Not below him. Or equal with him.

but you will still deny what is standing right in front of you

And the "whoever" limits who he love! The "whoever" actually qualifies the extent of the world.

Well then...your issue is with God if that's what you think. You must think God would be unfair if he did that, right? As though he's morally obligated to save anyone? Does God have a duty to perform to man?

And why are you so ignorant of the scriptures? Don't you know that God does all things for his own glory -- not man's? And he does all things for his good pleasure, not man's? And he does things for his purpose, not man's? And that God's sovereign will is not contingent upon man? But...I give you this: You are the KING of STRAW [my] Man. [/QUOTE]

you ask, if you do not receive then could it be one’s motive to why one does not receive.
God knows everyone in everyone’s motive. Therefore God decides
it has nothing to do with anyone being better than anyone else> God is not. Unfair< only one righteous which made son and God as one
next. Being. The first one in flesh and blood< to never deny God. That is what belief he is risen starts in us the new life with no selfish motive. at least grow in this grace given us unto maturity. Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6 we start as babies on milk, then it comes time to start growing up. I need meat, hope you see this too. No one is better than anyone else here. We are here to share in care.
thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Okay. What leads you to believe God doesn't share truth with me?

I do not know who God shares with who God speaks to. I have children. I am a parent. I will not go to either son or daughter, and tell Son or daughter to tell my other children what to say to them. Will you? Or would you go directly to your child and tell them Each plainly?
Hebrews 1 in the days of old, before the Christ, God spoke to others by the prophets. In these last days, it is now by Son only

 

[Cameron143]

I do not know who God shares with who God speaks to. I have children. I am a parent. I will not go to either son or daughter, and tell Son or daughter to tell my other children what to say to them. Will you? Or would you go directly to your child and tell them Each plainly?
Hebrews 1 in the days of old, before the Christ, God spoke to others by the prophets. In these last days, it is now by Son only

I've already shared directly with my children. I still do. What does any of this have to do with my previous posts?

 

[Rufus]

And the "whoever" limits who he love! The "whoever" actually qualifies the extent of the world.

Well then...your issue is with God if that's what you think. You must think God would be unfair if he did that, right? As though he's morally obligated to save anyone? Does God have a duty to perform to man?

And why are you so ignorant of the scriptures? Don't you know that God does all things for his own glory -- not man's? And he does all things for his good pleasure, not man's? And he does things for his purpose, not man's? And that God's sovereign will is not contingent upon man? But...I give you this: You are the KING of STRAW [my] Man.

you ask, if you do not receive then could it be one’s motive to why one does not receive.
God knows everyone in everyone’s motive. Therefore God decides
it has nothing to do with anyone being better than anyone else> God is not. Unfair< only one righteous which made son and God as one
next. Being. The first one in flesh and blood< to never deny God. That is what belief he is risen starts in us the new life with no selfish motive. at least grow in this grace given us unto maturity. Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6 we start as babies on milk, then it comes time to start growing up. I need meat, hope you see this too. No one is better than anyone else here. We are here to share in care.
thank you[/QUOTE]

As I well know from scripture and my own personal salvation experience. You should have directed your post to EverlastingGrace who made that straw men claim that I must be better than everyone else (or my neighbor God chose to bypass) if God chose to save me and not my neighbor. A totally foolish argument given the fact that God chose to bypass all Egypt when he "came down" to "rescue" Abraham's descendants from the clutches of Pharaoh.

 

[Genez]

Do you realise how much data you are stealing off forum readers whose only choice to avoid having to download your images on every thread is to put you on ignore. Maybe you could just type the biblical text into your post and add a link to your panel for those who can afford to look at them.

https://www.techtarget.com/searchstorage/definition/How-many-bytes-for

She never has to reply to herself. She cannot know the problem she causes if anyone wanted to respond to something she posted.
Good you mentioned it. I found it frustrating, too, and counter productive if you wished to dialogue.

 

[homwardbound]

you ask, if you do not receive then could it be one’s motive to why one does not receive.
God knows everyone in everyone’s motive. Therefore God decides
it has nothing to do with anyone being better than anyone else> God is not. Unfair< only one righteous which made son and God as one
next. Being. The first one in flesh and blood< to never deny God. That is what belief he is risen starts in us the new life with no selfish motive. at least grow in this grace given us unto maturity. Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6 we start as babies on milk, then it comes time to start growing up. I need meat, hope you see this too. No one is better than anyone else here. We are here to share in care.
thank you

As I well know from scripture and my own personal salvation experience. You should have directed your post to EverlastingGrace who made that straw men claim that I must be better than everyone else (or my neighbor God chose to bypass) if God chose to save me and not my neighbor. A totally foolish argument given the fact that God chose to bypass all Egypt when he "came down" to "rescue" Abraham's descendants from the clutches of Pharaoh. [/QUOTE]

I did not quote the below you quote, not my quote,

homwardbound said:
And the "whoever" limits who he love! The "whoever" actually qualifies the extent of the world.

Well then...your issue is with God if that's what you think. You must think God would be unfair if he did that, right? As though he's morally obligated to save anyone? Does God have a duty to perform to man?

And why are you so ignorant of the scriptures? Don't you know that God does all things for his own glory -- not man's? And he does all things for his good pleasure, not man's? And he does things for his purpose, not man's? And that God's sovereign will is not contingent upon man? But...I give you this: You are the KING of STRAW [my] Man.

have a blessed day

 

[homwardbound]

I've already shared directly with my children. I still do. What does any of this have to do with my previous posts?

So. Sorry you and I do not connect, have a blessed day

 

[PaulThomson]

Were OT saints indwelt by the Holy Spirit? If not, they didn't belong to Christ. I wonder how Abraham saw Jesus day and rejoiced in seeing it. What do you think that was all about?

it is a logical fallacy to impose the conditions that appertain to belonging to Christ after the cross and impose them on people livingbefore the cross.
Also, having the Spirit and the Holy Spirit indwelling are not the same thing.