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C
Why are you trying to make trouble. You are trying to separate these issues when they are not separate. Jesus died for our sins, as a sin offering, but unless we accept that offering we will go to hell. God wants all to accept his gift, but wants us to make the choice to believe.
If we were all saved through the cross without making a choice to love God, then when we are nothing more than robots coded to love God now or later. God wants our love, but wants it to be a love freely given because forced love is not real nor has any value.
If we were all saved through the cross without making a choice to love God, then when we are nothing more than robots coded to love God now or later. God wants our love, but wants it to be a love freely given because forced love is not real nor has any value.
F
C
The I would humbly submit that you are going about it the wrong way. You should have stated this the first time. Talk about passages like Ephesians 2 and/or others that show that salvation is a gift, and there is no way for us to earn it. Do not just ask questions that look designed for controversy.
F
Christ did not die so that those he died for could have everlasting life, He died so do have everlasting life, he accomplished for those he died for, eternal life, forgivness of sins, sanctification and eternal security on the cross. It was not an offer, it was a payment in full. His elect are bought and paid for. 1 Cor 6:20, For ye are bought with a price, therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, wich are God's.
C
Quote:
Originally Posted by damombomb
Jesus Christ died the death so we could have everlasting life,forgiveness of sins,he has the keys of hell and the grave, he was the firstborn
from the dead, his blood is the new testament, ,without him we would have no hope
You seem to think that you are talking about different things, you are not. Jesus died as a payment in full, so that we might have eternal life. Brothers you are not debating two different view points, you are just wording it differently.
Originally Posted by damombomb
Jesus Christ died the death so we could have everlasting life,forgiveness of sins,he has the keys of hell and the grave, he was the firstborn
from the dead, his blood is the new testament, ,without him we would have no hope
You seem to think that you are talking about different things, you are not. Jesus died as a payment in full, so that we might have eternal life. Brothers you are not debating two different view points, you are just wording it differently.
F
Quote:
Originally Posted by damombomb
Jesus Christ died the death so we could have everlasting life,forgiveness of sins,he has the keys of hell and the grave, he was the firstborn
from the dead, his blood is the new testament, ,without him we would have no hope
You seem to think that you are talking about different things, you are not. Jesus died as a payment in full, so that we might have eternal life. Brothers you are not debating two different view points, you are just wording it differently.
Originally Posted by damombomb
Jesus Christ died the death so we could have everlasting life,forgiveness of sins,he has the keys of hell and the grave, he was the firstborn
from the dead, his blood is the new testament, ,without him we would have no hope
You seem to think that you are talking about different things, you are not. Jesus died as a payment in full, so that we might have eternal life. Brothers you are not debating two different view points, you are just wording it differently.
C
Yes I see what you are saying but if you read the whole of the new testament your thought is slightly flawed, as it opens the door to all to go to heaven no matter what they do here on earth or for God to be a liar. Because we know from 1 John that if we live a life of sin we are children of the devil, and the wages of sin is death and we also know that God desires all to be saved (1 Timothy 2). If Christ paid in full for all, and God wants all to be saved, then all should go to heaven, right? Wrong. The bible is clear that we must believe to receive this gift.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
And I could keep going. We cannot save ourselves, but God has given us the choice to love or reject him.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
And I could keep going. We cannot save ourselves, but God has given us the choice to love or reject him.
F
God's elect are created unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.Eph 2:10. The word "world" in John 3:16 according to Thayer's Greek interpretation is 2889, 8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. a)a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. John 3:29 says our belief is not our work, but God's work.