What do you think?

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree that some do not have good programs in place to allow an atmosphere of discipleship but the people also need to be taught the importance of it as well.

Yeah you’d think pastors would just point everyone to the gospel that I’m aware of this is the only way to be a disciple

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If pastors did that problem solved but instead they avoid that and create disciples of thier own teachings which doesn’t lead to the same place but instead brings themself glory and praise and popularity and often money ect

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A telmademe/disciple was to follow so closely behind his rabbi that the dust from the rabbi's sandals covered him.

A student of scriptures that did well in bethgashepher (bet-h gas hep her) and had the entire Torah (5 books of Moses memorized) would graduate to bethmidrash.
Where the student would discuss what the Law meant and memorize the rest of the Tenakh (old testament)

From here the Rabbi would supervise the discussions. There were several orders of rabbi...the highest order of Rabbi was a schmeekah rabbi who had the authority to declare what the Torah meant.

The best of the best students could then go to a Rabbi and ask the Rabbi if he could follow him. The rabbi would then watch the student. Find out about the student's family...see if they were upstanding citizens of the community. (All the apostles never made it to Bethmidrash)

If the Rabbi agreed to a student following him...it was "game on" for the student...now a Telmadeem.

The whole job of the disciple was to act just like the Rabbi. From sneezing at pollen to snoring. If the rabbi broke bread and then gave thanks vs give thanks and then break bread these things were not allowed to be gotten wrong.

In this way the Rabbi would live on in the student and the student would be a lasting legacy for the rabbi. Because the exact same answers the original rabbi would give is what the disciple would give.

After a period of time (usually years) the Rabbi would turn around to the Disciple and say "go make disciples". Meaning that the disciple was now a full blown Rabbi in his own right.

Jesus did this last part a bit differently...because the Disciples were to baptise them NOT into their own name, but Jesus's and the Father and the Holy Spirit.

We see none of any of this today.

really good post this part though

Jesus did this last part a bit differently...because the Disciples were to baptise them NOT into their own name, but Jesus's and the Father and the Holy Spirit.”


The father and the Holy Spirit aren’t names they are titles the only name is Jesus. The disciples followed this correctly

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice no one in the New Testament is ever baptized into any other name Jesus is the father the son and the Holy Ghost those three titles in one name.

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭

to be baptized into his name is the only name

father and son

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Holy Ghost

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice Jesus name connects all three in one name

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yeah you’d think pastors would just point everyone to the gospel that I’m aware of this is the only way to be a disciple

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If pastors did that problem solved but instead they avoid that and create disciples of thier own teachings which doesn’t lead to the same place but instead brings themself glory and praise and popularity and often money ect

To me it is more than pointing but an active relationship like the apostles had with Jesus or their disciples aka early church fathers.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

To me it is more than pointing but an active relationship like the apostles had with Jesus or their disciples aka early church fathers.

yeah but how could we ever be disciples unless we followed the teachers words isn’t that how we actually have a relationship with him ? The apostles seemed to follow And actively pursue what he taught is sort of my point . That is what discipleship is and why Jesus is saying “ if you Continue in my words you are my disciples indeed and will know the truth “

maybe I should say we need to hear and out his teachings into practice in our daily life , does that make more sense ?

I’m pretty sure the only way to be a disciple is to hear and follow the things the teacher teaches

Sort of what James is saying

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems to agree with what Jesus said there when we examine his teachings in the gospel his word , we find he’s teaching us how to live upright lives before God living one another Gods way. That seems to be how to have a relationship with him by walking in the truth we learn from Jesus

Not sure how it would be possible without that part. I know a lot of folks say other things but I’m talking about the Bible

This seems to be how we have a relationship with him

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭

if you notice how it always connects to his words ? It’s always. Even this way adam has a relationship with him too but rejected his words and walked in the other words

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed .

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7-8, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

instead of believing and walking in that word living in Eden with the lord freely eating from the tree of life , he followed this other word and broke relationship God made him for

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: ….she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. ( they’ve now both rejected Gods word and instead accepted satans )

And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

…therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6, 9-11, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See how if he would have just accepted and walked by Gods word he wouldn’t have been rejected from Eden and the tree of life where God placed and fellowshipped with him ?

it’s all We need to know Gods word is the way truth and life it will never fail to give life and relationship with him. We’re never going to have another way but what God said and letting that become our way it seems

 

[JohnDB]

One of the key points about discipleship is "Words and Actions".
BEFORE you can be discipled you had to know the scriptures. Its fairly pointless to try to disciple someone who flat out doesn't know the scriptures or only half know the scriptures.

Then, when you are discipling or being discipled...you get to know and understand how to apply the scriptures in your daily life.

I can't even begin to count the sheer volume of people who claim Christ, claim to be Christians, and yet don't know scriptures or behave in direct opposition to them on a regular basis. Their words and actions flat out do not match each other. And it goes both directions...some will speak very harshly and legalistically but then show every compassion and grace imaginable. Or they will again speak very conservatively and behave very liberally...pretty much not following expected guidelines of behavior. Or...speak as if everything is permissible in behavior but then behave very conservatively.

There is supposed to be a matching of words and actions...and that is what discipling is about. Getting a person's words and actions to actually match up. Its not about changing attitudes and opinions...but to let the people see how these things can and do match in life.

 

[peldom10]

One of the key points about discipleship is "Words and Actions".
BEFORE you can be discipled you had to know the scriptures. Its fairly poifferent bible editionsntless to try to disciple someone who flat out doesn't know the scriptures or only half know the scriptures.

Then, when you are discipling or being discipled...you get to know and understand how to apply the scriptures in your daily life.

I can't even begin to count the sheer volume of people who claim Christ, claim to be Christians, and yet don't know scriptures or behave in direct opposition to them on a regular basis. Their words and actions flat out do not match each other. And it goes both directions...some will speak very harshly and legalistically but then show every compassion and grace imaginable. Or they will again speak very conservatively and behave very liberally...pretty much not following expected guidelines of behavior. Or...speak as if everything is permissible in behavior but then behave very conservatively.

There is supposed to be a matching of words and actions...and that is what discipling is about. Getting a person's words and actions to actually match up. Its not about changing attitudes and opinions...but to let the people see how these things can and do match in life.

Excellent summary.

Coalesced with that is the fact that We also must acknowledge that a large part of moral decay has occurred since the 1960's. The time of the start of moral decline in this society...in a big way. It continues to this day with increased volume.

Divergence of scripture interpretations contributes. End time prophecy.......in the end times there will be great deceptions.
We see it here on this forum.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

One of the key points about discipleship is "Words and Actions".
BEFORE you can be discipled you had to know the scriptures. Its fairly pointless to try to disciple someone who flat out doesn't know the scriptures or only half know the scriptures.

Then, when you are discipling or being discipled...you get to know and understand how to apply the scriptures in your daily life.

I can't even begin to count the sheer volume of people who claim Christ, claim to be Christians, and yet don't know scriptures or behave in direct opposition to them on a regular basis. Their words and actions flat out do not match each other. And it goes both directions...some will speak very harshly and legalistically but then show every compassion and grace imaginable. Or they will again speak very conservatively and behave very liberally...pretty much not following expected guidelines of behavior. Or...speak as if everything is permissible in behavior but then behave very conservatively.

There is supposed to be a matching of words and actions...and that is what discipling is about. Getting a person's words and actions to actually match up. Its not about changing attitudes and opinions...but to let the people see how these things can and do match in life.

I agree but also add that it is still discipleship to teach someone the scriptures.