Hello there, Ellie. You've misunderstood David. Read his posts and you'll see that he clearly believes we must endure until Jesus returns as King of kings at the 7th trump. This is something I believe as well. Welcome to CC.
What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?
- Thread starter Icedaisey
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Thank you, I already realized I misunderstood him. This doesn't justify him attacking me and calling me satan...I had only good intentions
@eternally-gratefull,
I am wanting to get across to you that salvation is not only about forgiveness.
It is also about sanctification.
And my exhortations are unto sanctification for those who will receive them.
There is a sense in which, if someone refuses to be sanctified, that this is an evidence that they do not have justification either.
I am wanting to get across to you that salvation is not only about forgiveness.
It is also about sanctification.
And my exhortations are unto sanctification for those who will receive them.
There is a sense in which, if someone refuses to be sanctified, that this is an evidence that they do not have justification either.
you attacked = i corrected the attack = not you = you took it personel
You also falsely accused me again = "i never said you were satan"
Maybe you have not been reviewing my posts as i have been reaching out in the Love of God to tell my Brethren to turn away from the lies.
pre-trib is a Big Lie from satan and many have swallowed it - hook, line and sinker
God is calling everyone, myself included, to repentance and to return to "the faith, once delivered to the Saints".
We do this together and it becomes a joyful celebration in freedom from religion and blessing in the Holy Spirit.
But if we hold tightly to our idols, we will accuse and attack one another.
You also falsely accused me again = "i never said you were satan"
Maybe you have not been reviewing my posts as i have been reaching out in the Love of God to tell my Brethren to turn away from the lies.
pre-trib is a Big Lie from satan and many have swallowed it - hook, line and sinker
God is calling everyone, myself included, to repentance and to return to "the faith, once delivered to the Saints".
We do this together and it becomes a joyful celebration in freedom from religion and blessing in the Holy Spirit.
But if we hold tightly to our idols, we will accuse and attack one another.
There is no question mark in this verse. It is a statement.
It says "hath quickened" (already accomplished), not is quickening (ongoing).
It says "are saved"(already accomplished), not being saved (ongoing).
This is something that has already been done in us through the grace of God.
The moment someone places their trust in the Lord, his atoning blood is applied to them.
“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved” (Ephesians 2:5)
” (Ephesians 2:5)It says "hath quickened" (already accomplished), not is quickening (ongoing).
It says "are saved"(already accomplished), not being saved (ongoing).
This is something that has already been done in us through the grace of God.
The moment someone places their trust in the Lord, his atoning blood is applied to them.
There is no question mark in this verse. It is a statement.
It says "hath quickened" (already accomplished), not is quickening (ongoing).
It says "are saved"(already accomplished), not being saved (ongoing).
This is something that has already been done in us through the grace of God.
The moment someone places their trust in the Lord, his atoning blood is applied to them.
“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved” (Ephesians 2:5)
” (Ephesians 2:5)It says "hath quickened" (already accomplished), not is quickening (ongoing).
It says "are saved"(already accomplished), not being saved (ongoing).
This is something that has already been done in us through the grace of God.
The moment someone places their trust in the Lord, his atoning blood is applied to them.
There may as well be a question mark in parentheses; because of the order of the words in the kjv.
Ephesians 2:8-9 cannot say to unbelievers that they have been saved by grace through faith. But if an unbeliever reads the verses in some versions, they may get the impression that they have been; simply because they are reading that passage.
Because they may think that they have a genuine faith when in all reality, they do not.
There is no question mark in this verse. It is a statement.
It says "hath quickened" (already accomplished), not is quickening (ongoing).
It says "are saved"(already accomplished), not being saved (ongoing).
This is something that has already been done in us through the grace of God.
The moment someone places their trust in the Lord, his atoning blood is applied to them.
“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved” (Ephesians 2:5)
” (Ephesians 2:5)It says "hath quickened" (already accomplished), not is quickening (ongoing).
It says "are saved"(already accomplished), not being saved (ongoing).
This is something that has already been done in us through the grace of God.
The moment someone places their trust in the Lord, his atoning blood is applied to them.
Not scriptural at all.
You have a problem with keeping things in context. I now must conclude it is on purpose to try and support your new age religion leanings.
I'm the one that brought up this chapter. I explicitly quoted Eph 2:5.
Since vs 8 does not have a question mark (in greek or KJV), you shouldn't assume it should...especially since you think the KJV is inspired.
There is no exegetical evidence for a question being posed in verse 8. It doesn't fit the context. The word order does not change the meaning. It's old English, they talked differently back then.
If you think the KJV should not be corrected by the Greek manuscript, but it should be corrected by our modern usage of English...that's a dangerous hermeneutical problem.
Let's just continue with our other conversation. Ok?
Since vs 8 does not have a question mark (in greek or KJV), you shouldn't assume it should...especially since you think the KJV is inspired.
There is no exegetical evidence for a question being posed in verse 8. It doesn't fit the context. The word order does not change the meaning. It's old English, they talked differently back then.
If you think the KJV should not be corrected by the Greek manuscript, but it should be corrected by our modern usage of English...that's a dangerous hermeneutical problem.
Let's just continue with our other conversation. Ok?
The left? What are you talking about? Are you meaning politically?
First, You should be more kind.
I asked you, kindly, to write more legibly so that I can understand you clearly. The desire to understand another's position is of utmost respect.
Second, I think there has been a miscommunication somewhere in our recent conversation. We need to find common ground to continue in a productive manner.
2. You said "keep it in context...we are not saved" (and some other things-I could not understand your wording/grammar)
3. I asked you to show me what was wrong with the contexts I gave, using Scripture (that means to explain to me the meaning of the passages I quoted, to show me my error in using them)
4. You said "don't shift the subject" (and accused me of having a problem)
So let's revisit this. I'm I said we may absolutely refer to ourselves as saved (Eph 1:13, 2:5, 1 Pet 1:3-4, 1:23-25).
You are telling me to keep it in context. Please tell me how my statement (underlined) is out of context with
these passages I appealed to as evidence.
If these passages are not about the salvation we can currently claim, then what are they about?
First, You should be more kind.
I asked you, kindly, to write more legibly so that I can understand you clearly. The desire to understand another's position is of utmost respect.
Second, I think there has been a miscommunication somewhere in our recent conversation. We need to find common ground to continue in a productive manner.
What has been said recently:
1. I said, "We may absolutely refer to ourselves as saved!" (and gave 5 Biblical references for evidence in post# 401)
2. You said "keep it in context...we are not saved" (and some other things-I could not understand your wording/grammar)
3. I asked you to show me what was wrong with the contexts I gave, using Scripture (that means to explain to me the meaning of the passages I quoted, to show me my error in using them)
4. You said "don't shift the subject" (and accused me of having a problem)
So let's revisit this. I'm I said we may absolutely refer to ourselves as saved (Eph 1:13, 2:5, 1 Pet 1:3-4, 1:23-25).
You are telling me to keep it in context. Please tell me how my statement (underlined) is out of context with
these passages I appealed to as evidence.
If these passages are not about the salvation we can currently claim, then what are they about?
It is asking the question, by grace are ye saved (?) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
In the kjv it does not explicitly say to the one who reads that they have been saved by grace through faith: it is posing to them the question.
Much in the same way does 2 Corinthians 13:5 pose the same question.
In the kjv it does not explicitly say to the one who reads that they have been saved by grace through faith: it is posing to them the question.
Much in the same way does 2 Corinthians 13:5 pose the same question.
The great tribulation is not for the church but for the house of Jacob (the Jews) and judgment time for the disobedient world. Reason it is rightly called the time of Jacob’s trouble.
Jer 30:7: Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
At that time, God will only be protecting the Jews from His wrath....
10 Reasons the Church will not be in great Tribulation
1. God has not appointed us to His wrath
The godly (righteous) are not appointed to God’s wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thess 5:9: For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
See God has not appointed us to His wrath.
God poured His entire wrath on His only begotten son, Jesus Christ, thus we (the church) are not appointed to God’s wrath (great tribulation). The church is in Jesus Christ thus righteous and saved by Jesus Christ from God’s (father’s) wrath.
2. Church-age ends with rapture
Jesus gave birth to the church on the cross. The church came by blood and water; what comes out when a baby is born.
John 19:34: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water
Therefore a true church is not a building built with cement and bricks but a body built with blood and water.
1 John 5:5: Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is truth
See what a temple is and what a church is
Apostle Peter gave the first great speech of church birthday at the Pentecost; Acts 2.
Immediately after the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation, which represent the church-age, the church stops being mentioned in the Bible. Rev 4-5 reveals Rupture and the church in heaven as prophesied and seen by Apostle John. See the study of Book of Revelation.
Apostle John, who is part of the church to be caught up, gets prophesy of the seven churches while on earth but immediately after, he is taken to heaven; imagery of rapture. It is in heaven were he sees the church (Rev 4-5) and then receives revelation of the great tribulation.
John is an apostle of the church; representing the church. He gives an account of what will happen to the church in rupture.
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne (Rev: 4:1-2)
See what will happen in rapture
After Revelation 5 there is no mention of the church. This is because the church, represented by Apostle John has been caught up into heaven for heavenly worship and it is nowhere on earth in the great tribulation but watching from heaven.
3. No mention of church in the great tribulation
In the entire great tribulation period, Rev 6-19, there is no mention of the church.
4. Genesis gospel prophecy: – the church is caught up before the great tribulation
In Genesis gospel prophecy, Enoch was caught up before the flood.
Enoch represents the church while Noah represents the Israelites (Jews). Noah sailed through the flood in an ark, as the Israelites will in times of the great tribulation but the church represented by Enoch will not be found.
Enoch means dedicated while Noah means rest and comfort
See Genesis gospel prophecy
Full list
I think I just realized why there's tension between our positions. It's this phrase you just wrote: " to the one who reads".
Yes, if what Paul wrote was meant to apply to every person who reads it, then it would not be possible for vs 8 to be a statement. But Paul isn't writing to the world, he is writing to the church. This spiritual fact only applies to people who are a part of the church. So there's no issue with reading it the way it is written.
Anyways...moving on
Yes, if what Paul wrote was meant to apply to every person who reads it, then it would not be possible for vs 8 to be a statement. But Paul isn't writing to the world, he is writing to the church. This spiritual fact only applies to people who are a part of the church. So there's no issue with reading it the way it is written.
Anyways...moving on