What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

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K

Kroogz

Active member
#381
Dec 5, 2023
596
209
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#381
BillyBob said:
OK! Why is it that I hear some people argue as follows:

God would not bestow faith to some only! That just would not be fair!
Who are we to determine what God should do or not do?
Does He not do as he pleases?

When we question what He clearly says, are we not putting ourselves above Him?
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In many instances, we can know what God should do or not do because He has revealed His divine attributes to us. The main attribute we have to focus on when it comes to salvation?........His Justice. His sovereignty devised the plan of salvation. His Justice applies His plan.

He condemned ALL men under sin. Through His righteousness/Justice He has to offer all men salvation. And He tells us.

Psalms 67:4
Oh let the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you will judge the peoples with equity, and govern the nations on earth. Selah.

Psalms 96:10
Say among the nations, "the LORD reigns." The world is also established. It can't be moved. He will judge the peoples with equity.

Psalms 98:9
Let them sing before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity.

Psalms 99:4
The King's strength also loves justice. You do establish equity. You execute justice and righteousness in Jacob.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#382
Oct 29, 2023
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#382
Cameron143 said:
Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?
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Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Yes.

Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? No.

If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? No.

What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?
If you offer to pay for those who could otherwise not come, but do not offer to pay for those who can well afford to come at their own expense, you continue to have the desire that they come. If you withhold the payment you could afford from those who could otherwise not afford to come, your claims tp desire all to come would be fraudulent.
Even if you offer to pay, there is the possibility that some or all may still refuse to come. For instance, if some consider you to be a narcissist who only wants their presence because it will stoke your own sense of self-importance and ability to manipulate and control others, they may not come. But others who are narcissistic may like the idea of being close to you because it validates their own. While others who perceive you as genuinely loving them and enjoying their company may come to love you back.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#383
Oct 29, 2023
2,041
265
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#383
Kroogz said:
In many instances, we can know what God should do or not do because He has revealed His divine attributes to us. The main attribute we have to focus on when it comes to salvation?........His Justice. His sovereignty devised the plan of salvation. His Justice applies His plan.

He condemned ALL men under sin. Through His righteousness/Justice He has to offer all men salvation. And He tells us.

Psalms 67:4
Oh let the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you will judge the peoples with equity, and govern the nations on earth. Selah.

Psalms 96:10
Say among the nations, "the LORD reigns." The world is also established. It can't be moved. He will judge the peoples with equity.

Psalms 98:9
Let them sing before the LORD, for he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity.

Psalms 99:4
The King's strength also loves justice. You do establish equity. You execute justice and righteousness in Jacob.
Click to expand...
Are these speaking merely of retributive justice or of restorative justice?
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#384
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
2,551
113
#384
I say this not as an insult or as any way of me looking down on anyyone but your all making it far to complicated . when it comes to intellect the studious reading of scripture it appears more important of the amount of scripture you know than what you actually know.

He opposes such thinking he rather would have us come to him as a child childtren don't overcomplicate things they hear him easier than adults they accept his truth because they don't use their logic or amount of imformation they have/



Faith works only in this way as a child whatever scripture you know however long you have studied none of that matters if you just overcomplicate it creating more questions more debates more different views

Are you really looking for answers or are just doing the norm the easily made threads asking questions when it is really to ensue debate.

If you think words don't have matter you would be wrong take into seriousness every word you speak every letter you type has power it affects every person reading it most you will know you affected.

People cpme to Christian chat looking for a community to learn grow and talk about God with and few of you know how many have been scared off because of the bdf.

But lets be honest here the bdf isn't for discusion it is for debates for proving 9or disproving how many who speak of all the years or the so called bible scholars but do you see how everything is discected seperated divided misunderstood based not on the qord of God but inerpretation what you think and believe what denimination you belong to

All I am saying is if you go the bdf and all you do is everything
i described how are you serving him? how are you shining his true heart? with all your knowledge how do you use it to help build and encourage the body of Christ?

Why are you a Christian? yes you have salvation but after that then what? you study the word you serve ,you pray you give but can you honestly ask yourself if you have truly given your every motive your every thought your every cell in your body to and for him?

You seek the wisdom and knowledge of God but what do you intend to do with it? what is your reason and purpose for all your studying all your faith ?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#385
Mar 1, 2022
15,154
5,439
113
62
#385
PaulThomson said:
Is it considered a desire if I only have a strong feeling of wanting? Yes.

Do I need to do anything to make my desire a desire? No.

If I volunteer to incur all the expenses for my family does this make it a desire when before it wasn't? No.

What if I only volunteered to pay for some family members? Does this affect whether it is a desire or lessen the desire to have the company of my family?
If you offer to pay for those who could otherwise not come, but do not offer to pay for those who can well afford to come at their own expense, you continue to have the desire that they come. If you withhold the payment you could afford from those who could otherwise not afford to come, your claims tp desire all to come would be fraudulent.
Even if you offer to pay, there is the possibility that some or all may still refuse to come. For instance, if some consider you to be a narcissist who only wants their presence because it will stoke your own sense of self-importance and ability to manipulate and control others, they may not come. But others who are narcissistic may like the idea of being close to you because it validates their own. While others who perceive you as genuinely loving them and enjoying their company may come to love you back.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the reply. Do the answers hold for God as well?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#387
Mar 1, 2022
15,154
5,439
113
62
#387
Blain said:
I say this not as an insult or as any way of me looking down on anyyone but your all making it far to complicated . when it comes to intellect the studious reading of scripture it appears more important of the amount of scripture you know than what you actually know.

He opposes such thinking he rather would have us come to him as a child childtren don't overcomplicate things they hear him easier than adults they accept his truth because they don't use their logic or amount of imformation they have/



Faith works only in this way as a child whatever scripture you know however long you have studied none of that matters if you just overcomplicate it creating more questions more debates more different views

Are you really looking for answers or are just doing the norm the easily made threads asking questions when it is really to ensue debate.

If you think words don't have matter you would be wrong take into seriousness every word you speak every letter you type has power it affects every person reading it most you will know you affected.

People cpme to Christian chat looking for a community to learn grow and talk about God with and few of you know how many have been scared off because of the bdf.

But lets be honest here the bdf isn't for discusion it is for debates for proving 9or disproving how many who speak of all the years or the so called bible scholars but do you see how everything is discected seperated divided misunderstood based not on the qord of God but inerpretation what you think and believe what denimination you belong to

All I am saying is if you go the bdf and all you do is everything
i described how are you serving him? how are you shining his true heart? with all your knowledge how do you use it to help build and encourage the body of Christ?

Why are you a Christian? yes you have salvation but after that then what? you study the word you serve ,you pray you give but can you honestly ask yourself if you have truly given your every motive your every thought your every cell in your body to and for him?

You seek the wisdom and knowledge of God but what do you intend to do with it? what is your reason and purpose for all your studying all your faith ?
Click to expand...
I appreciate your reply. You don't believe it to be an earnest inquiry?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#391
Jul 3, 2015
56,321
26,347
113
#391
Cameron143 said:
That's very interesting. So God's desire is that people will seek after Him?
Since the Bible says none seek after God, would God have to act to go get them?
Click to expand...

Acts 17:26-27

From Acts 17:26-28
:)
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#392
Oct 29, 2023
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265
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#392
The original text of the bible does not say "none seek after God". It says "None keep on seeking after God." Present continuous tense.

That is we are all somewhat intermittent in our seeking after God.
 
K

Kroogz

Active member
#394
Dec 5, 2023
596
209
43
#394
PaulThomson said:
The original text of the bible does not say "none seek after God". It says "None keep on seeking after God." Present continuous tense.

That is we are all somewhat intermittent in our seeking after God.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. "seeking" is present ACTIVE nominative. In the present(whenever you read this verse past/present or future) there is none that actively seek out God...
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

ekzhtwn ekzEtOn G1567 vp Pres Act Nom Sg m one-OUT-SEEKING

The same with "understand" in this verse. present active nominative. None understand. But God fixed this problem for ALL.

John 12:32~~New American Standard Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
 
K

Kroogz

Active member
#395
Dec 5, 2023
596
209
43
#395
Equal privilege, equal opportunity for ALL.

He condemned ALL under sin, His Righteous Justice offers salvation to all. Simple.

1 John2:2~~New American Standard Bible
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#396
Oct 29, 2023
2,041
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#396
Kroogz said:
I beg to differ. "seeking" is present ACTIVE nominative. In the present(whenever you read this verse past/present or future) there is none that actively seek out God...
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

ekzhtwn ekzEtOn G1567 vp Pres Act Nom Sg m one-OUT-SEEKING

The same with "understand" in this verse. present active nominative. None understand. But God fixed this problem for ALL.

John 12:32~~New American Standard Bible
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
Click to expand...
So, are you saying that King David in the old testament never sought after God at any time in his life?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#397
Oct 29, 2023
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#397
Magenta said:
I didn't say, hint at, imply, insinuate, or otherwise indicate that you were responsible in any way for what others think .:unsure:.
I am simply responding to your query, with what seems to me to be the main objection to Calvinistic thought.
Isn't that what this thread is about?

Desire must originate somewhere. I am saying it originates in the will: desire is an act of the will.
No other action need accompany it, as you have been postulating, for it to exist and be genuine.
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The will IS desire. The will is not action. Paul says "Rom.7:14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I WOULD, that I DO NOT; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I DO that which I WOULD NOT, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for TO WILL IS PRESENT with me; but HOW TO PERFORM that which is good I FIND NOT.
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#399
Oct 29, 2023
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#399
Magenta said:
On the other hand, I do not believe man's will is free, since we are slaves to sin before being regenerated and/or born again of the Holy Spirit of God.
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Biblically, to will (thelein) is to desire. You believe you are not free to desire whatever you want to desire? Why?
 
P

PaulThomson

Well-known member
#400
Oct 29, 2023
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#400
BillyBob said:
for all men have not faith”. (2 Thess. 3:2);
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The greek says "for not of all men is THE faith." ie. THE faith is not all men's [faith].

THE faith is faith in one particular Lord and Saviour. All men have faith. Faith is a human attribute/ability all have and all use every day. When the object/focus of that faith becomes the Lord Jesus Christ, we are saved.
 
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