What does it (N.T. rally mean)?

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mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,449
216
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#1
Did G-d do away with Torah (all together, dismiss all Scripture, the 66 we call the Bible) or did He just do away with the mechanism of animal sacrifice for the sacrifice of of ONE LAMB?

What does it (N.T. rally mean)?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,529
7,652
113
#2
Did G-d do away with Torah (all together, dismiss all Scripture, the 66 we call the Bible) or did He just do away with the mechanism of animal sacrifice for the sacrifice of of ONE LAMB?

What does it (N.T. rally mean)?
The Torah is more than the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) and it is an integral part of the Bible. So God certainly did not do away with the Torah. All Scripture is profitable for all Christians.

But Christ -- the Lamb of God -- came to fulfil all the types and symbols of Himself in the Torah -- particularly the Passover lamb. Christ OUR Passover has been sacrificed for us, and His blood cleanses every sinner who comes to Him in faith.

Therefore God has placed the book of Hebrews in the New Testament to show us that the shed blood of Christ is the blood of the New Covenant, therefore all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant have come to an end. Which means that the levitical priesthood, the tabernacle and the temple, the feasts, festivals, and holy days (including Sabbath days), and all the ceremonial observances (including circumcision) have come to an end.

And in order to show Israel that this is how it is, God supernaturally tore the temple curtain which divided the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies. Now believers have access to the heavenly sanctuary and the throne of grace in Heaven, and there are no more sacrifices for sin. Our great High Priest is the Lord Jesus Christ, who is also our Mediator and Advocate in Heaven, and whose blood is sprinkled on the Mercy Seat in Heaven.

So Hebrew Christians must carefully study Paul's epistle to the Hebrews to understand that now there is no going back to Moses and the Law of Moses. The Law of Christ is in effect.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
367
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#3
NEW testament. NEW covenant. Ever hear the phrase "Last Will & Testament?" In order for someone to inherit from someone else, that someone must die in order for you to inherit. Upon the death of Christ we inherit eternal life. Because He was resurrected we can share in His resurrection.

In the old testament God's laws were obeyed physically under Moses.
In the new testament God's same laws are obeyed spiritually under Christ.

God did not do away with His laws, but the physical way of obeying them was nailed to the cross forevermore (amen). This is why we no longer take adulterers outside the city and physically stone them to death. Or why we no longer sacrifice a physically perfect Lamb. It's not because we stopped obeying God's laws, but because we now obey them spiritually instead of physically.

The whole old testament is one big long parable. To take it away would be like to take away the physical half of all of Christ's parables. We need the physical example in order to understand the spiritual meaning. For example, if we never knew what a physical king was, how could we understand the King of Kings? If we can talk understand royalty, God would be on our same level, and therefore why obey Him, if He's just an average Joe.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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#4
The New Covenant means that there is a new covenant God established with His people.

Because the Old one (Torah) was only to coming of Christ, there was a need for the new one after He came.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
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#5
Did G-d do away with Torah (all together, dismiss all Scripture, the 66 we call the Bible) or did He just do away with the mechanism of animal sacrifice for the sacrifice of of ONE LAMB?

What does it (N.T. rally mean)?
I would think it means the reformed covenant. The time of reformation had come returning the covenant to another time period, most likely the time period of Judges . Woman and men as prophets. God no longer speaking just through the Hebrews. No outward King to represent our eternal King not seen. The shadows had become fulfilled in the appearance of the Son of man. The last days signified by a thousand years to represent an unknown had begun . The end or last day could come like a thief in the night any day

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,021
5,037
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#6
Torah is yet to be completely fulfilled. We first learned of Jesus Christ, Yeshua, by means of the lAW AND THE prophets. Any who truly know Jesus Christ see Him from Gënesis through Revelation ..
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
27,971
5,176
113
#7
NEW testament. NEW covenant. Ever hear the phrase "Last Will & Testament?" In order for someone to inherit from someone else, that someone must die in order for you to inherit. Upon the death of Christ we inherit eternal life. Because He was resurrected we can share in His resurrection.

In the old testament God's laws were obeyed physically under Moses.
In the new testament God's same laws are obeyed spiritually under Christ.


God did not do away with His laws, but the physical way of obeying them was nailed to the cross forevermore (amen). This is why we no longer take adulterers outside the city and physically stone them to death. Or why we no longer sacrifice a physically perfect Lamb. It's not because we stopped obeying God's laws, but because we now obey them spiritually instead of physically.

The whole old testament is one big long parable. To take it away would be like to take away the physical half of all of Christ's parables. We need the physical example in order to understand the spiritual meaning. For example, if we never knew what a physical king was, how could we understand the King of Kings? If we can talk understand royalty, God would be on our same level, and therefore why obey Him, if He's just an average Joe.
Amen........but, :)

For the majority of the Laws of Moses, you are spot on........but, there are some Laws/Commandments that must STILL be obeyed both spiritually and physically.........

God bless
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#8
Did G-d do away with Torah (all together, dismiss all Scripture, the 66 we call the Bible) or did He just do away with the mechanism of animal sacrifice for the sacrifice of of ONE LAMB?

What does it (N.T. rally mean)?
The law of righteousness remains...but there is now a higher law...according to the righteousness of God and this because holiness is changed from something ceremonial to a living Person.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,995
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#9
Since the old covenant is now obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. The old covenant has been made obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the New Command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

More exhaustive list:

Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22,23,24; 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23; 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9

Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#10
Amen........but, :)

For the majority of the Laws of Moses, you are spot on........but, there are some Laws/Commandments that must STILL be obeyed both spiritually and physically.........

God bless

yes! The law of righteousness.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,021
5,037
113
#11
If, when making reference to the New Testament, the Gospel is inclusive and all, then how can it be so new when it was first given to Abraham,long before the covenant f the law?

The Gospel has always been availed by the Holy Spirit to some, but now is availed to all by the Blood of theLamb of God.
 

Latour

Active member
Jun 11, 2018
437
255
43
#12
We see the change from the very words of Jesus. When the rich young man asked Jesus what he needed to do...Jesus responded by listing the 2nd table of commandments..the ones that refer to loving our neighbour.

But when he asked "what more do I lack?" Instead of quoting from the holiness tablet (the first 4 commandments) Jesus said...sell all you have and follow Me. So then Jesus personally replaces all temple observances. Holiness is now in a living person...Jesus Christ. The foreshadowing is past...the fulfillment is here.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,850
2,743
113
#13
Did G-d do away with Torah (all together, dismiss all Scripture, the 66 we call the Bible) or did He just do away with the mechanism of animal sacrifice for the sacrifice of of ONE LAMB?

What does it (N.T. rally mean)?
Its hard to be given something that you thought you had to work for.

That's what had to be taught in the OT. No matter how hard a person tried they couldn't earn Righteousness before God and they couldn't therefore earn their own Salvation.

We are to learn from the stiffnecked people in the OT that God always had a plan for what He would do after people finally learned that they couldn't earn what He required for Righteousness and admittance into His Kingdom.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,021
5,037
113
#14
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Reading all of the chapter is most helpful..........
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
693
190
43
#15
The most important event in human history happened 33 years after a man named Jesus was born. His death and reserecton was God’s gift of salavation to us.
The OT is important history about us, our nature and the nature of God. The NT is the reality of Jesus’ sacrifice and our new relationship with God.
The before is different than the after. The understanding and juxtaposition of new and old are necessary to understanding the most amazing gift
!
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,542
994
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#16
Did G-d do away with Torah (all together, dismiss all Scripture, the 66 we call the Bible) or did He just do away with the mechanism of animal sacrifice for the sacrifice of of ONE LAMB?

What does it (N.T. rally mean)?
I don't know Iv'e never been to a NT rally
 
Jul 26, 2018
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#18
Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

2Ti 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
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#19
Hey! Mcubed... PTL, forever!
In the New Covenant, Jesus entered into the heavenly holy of holies with his own perfect blood, and paid our debt in full, purchasing our atonement. This inaugurated a change in the priesthood from the order of Aaron and to the order of Melchizedec: which is a righteous, royal, and eternal priesthood. Now Jesus didn't just suffer a physical death. He suffered a spiritual death too, which was his real sacrifice making him sweat blood as he prayed about it to his holy Father. Then, by the greatest miracle in all of eternity, our sins were put upon Jesus. The Father and the Holy Spirit had to turn away from Jesus, being holy, as he cried out, "My God! My God! Why hast thou forsaken me," Instead of having his legs broken, Jesus' heart had already burst as his mortal human body couldn't bear the infinite torment Jesus suffered when he was cut off for our infinite (eternal) redemption. Jesus' infinite sacrifice was exactly the same, whether for one person or for the whole world. Or in other words, infinite = infinite. The change in the law went from a curse of death for any disobedience to the letter of the law; to the promise of righteousness and obedience to the law of the Spirit of life. So, rather than studying the scripture to insure obedience that avoids the curse; we study to have the Spirit write the Lord's laws and commandments upon the tables of our hearts and minds. We are thereby transformed by the renewing of our minds to be conformed into the image of the Son in loving obedience and righteousness forever, as we were predestinated to be.
Maranatha!