What does 'Repent' mean ?

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Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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Yes I do. The natural man, before he has been born again, cannot hear and understand spiritual things, such as the gospel which is about spiritual things. 1 Cor 2:14.
So, are you saying no one can understand the gospel unless God wills them to?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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I am guessing that your emphasis is upon "seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit". Is that right?

I think it important to realise to whom Peter is addressing; It is "the elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification OF THE SPIRIT, unto obedience (of Jesus Christ) and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. It also states in verse 3; According to God's abundant mercy HATH BEGOTTEN US (the elect) AGAIN UNTO A LIVELY HOPE BY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD, To an inheritance............

Is "the elect" all of mankind?

The obedience, in verse 22, in obeying the truth, is through the Holy Spirit that indwells them. They have already been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
King James Version
1 Peter 1:
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth

Your guess seems wrong as far as the topic is concern on “faith of” and “faith in” on this thread. You missed the verse 21, “that your faith and hope might be in God. Further, you have missed what the word means “even” that equates the two phrases. So being born again is “by the word of God”, this will harmonize John 6:63 and John 3:3 as well including Hebrews 4:12 and what else, all the bible verses concerning the topic. Of course, the obedience is the by-product of faith and how the Holy Spirit resides?

FIRST by trusting Christ, AFTER hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. In whom also AFTER that YE believed. vv 12-13

Again in v.15 says FAITH IN the Lord Jesus…

Ephesians 1:12-15

King James Version

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Col_1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
 
May 19, 2020
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You first need to see the overall context, You didn't, hence, considered as circular argument.
@fredoheaven i saw all of the overall context..and disagree that the natural man is saved,it’s there in scripture...he is alienated from God.i will post scripture later.
 
May 19, 2020
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1Corinthians2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness unto him,neither can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.



Therefore not quickened/ made alive in Christ...no new heart of flesh...because they are spiritually dead.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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So, are you saying no one can understand the gospel unless God wills them to?
Faith as always is the gospel key . Its when mankind separates faith from works that things go astray. Faith is a work of God .Not of our own self.

Philippians 1:6 informs us. Christ in us who began his good work in us wills to finish it till the end .He is our confidence .We put no confidence in our flesh (powerless faithless)

It is not so much understanding the gospel as in tasting, being made partakers of the Holy Ghost. But to work "to do it" .Its all one work God works in the believer.

Yes its both will and to do His good pleasure. Working to do another's will takes power. its the kind of food or power the disciples knew not of .The will and power of the father. Our daily bread.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

If we do his will to our own good pleasure (self edifying) then it falls into the category of dead faithless works.( Hebrews 6)

If we would offer our works (self edifying) offered towards Him rather than him working in us or towards us = Blasphemy.

God gives us the power to do his good will. It is not a work that we who have no power can do . He informs us this we will do, if God permits.

Hebrews 6: 1-3 King James Version (KJV)Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

We the can do the works he requires according to the power of His faith or labor of His love towards or in us.

Those who do his will and accredit it to themselves show "self edifying', "self righteousness" .In effect they say to the world. . Christ needs to get crucified over and over one demonstration of His work of faith is not enough.

Hebrews 6: 4-6 King James Version (KJV)4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If God permits he promises Christians he will not forget the good works we offer towards his name. Edifying Him not seen not ones own self.

God whose name is Jealous will not share the power of His glory with a corrupted creation, dead in their trespasses and sin. Emanuel works with us. Yoked with Christ making our burden lighter.

Hebrews 6: 9-10 King James Version (KJV) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
681
357
63
Faith as always is the gospel key . Its when mankind separates faith from works that things go astray. Faith is a work of God .Not of our own self.

Philippians 1:6 informs us. Christ in us who began his good work in us wills to finish it till the end .He is our confidence .We put no confidence in our flesh (powerless faithless)

It is not so much understanding the gospel as in tasting, being made partakers of the Holy Ghost. But to work "to do it" .Its all one work God works in the believer.

Yes its both will and to do His good pleasure. Working to do another's will takes power. its the kind of food or power the disciples knew not of .The will and power of the father. Our daily bread.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

If we do his will to our own good pleasure (self edifying) then it falls into the category of dead faithless works.( Hebrews 6)

If we would offer our works (self edifying) offered towards Him rather than him working in us or towards us = Blasphemy.

God gives us the power to do his good will. It is not a work that we who have no power can do . He informs us this we will do, if God permits.

Hebrews 6: 1-3 King James Version (KJV)Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

We the can do the works he requires according to the power of His faith or labor of His love towards or in us.

Those who do his will and accredit it to themselves show "self edifying', "self righteousness" .In effect they say to the world. . Christ needs to get crucified over and over one demonstration of His work of faith is not enough.

Hebrews 6: 4-6 King James Version (KJV)4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

If God permits he promises Christians he will not forget the good works we offer towards his name. Edifying Him not seen not ones own self.

God whose name is Jealous will not share the power of His glory with a corrupted creation, dead in their trespasses and sin. Emanuel works with us. Yoked with Christ making our burden lighter.

Hebrews 6: 9-10 King James Version (KJV) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Thank you for your perspective Garee, but the question was not asked because I was unsure of the answer.

p.s.-do you know the definition of succinct?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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So, are you saying no one can understand the gospel unless God wills them to?
Correct. At the time we are quickened to a new spiritual birth we are, by nature, still spiritually dead in sins, unable to respond to anything of a spiritual nature, Eph 2:1. After God, by his sovereign grace, gives us this new spiritual birth, we are newly born, as babes in Christ. We, then are fed with the milk of the word, and gradually grow into spiritual maturity, and can then understand the gospel.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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King James Version
1 Peter 1:
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth

Your guess seems wrong as far as the topic is concern on “faith of” and “faith in” on this thread. You missed the verse 21, “that your faith and hope might be in God. Further, you have missed what the word means “even” that equates the two phrases. So being born again is “by the word of God”, this will harmonize John 6:63 and John 3:3 as well including Hebrews 4:12 and what else, all the bible verses concerning the topic. Of course, the obedience is the by-product of faith and how the Holy Spirit resides?

FIRST by trusting Christ, AFTER hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. In whom also AFTER that YE believed. vv 12-13

Again in v.15 says FAITH IN the Lord Jesus…

Ephesians 1:12-15

King James Version

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Col_1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
You, like most on this forum who believe that there is something that you have to do, to get eternal salvation, are trying your best, by misrepresenting the scriptures, to enable the natural man to understand the things of the Spirit.

The inspired scriptures are written to God's regenerated children, as instructions, as to how he wants them to live their lives, while they sojourn here on earth. They are not written to the natural man, instructing him how to get saved eternally, because the natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.

1 Cor 2:11, For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God

The only "faith" that the natural man has is a faith in man, and what he accomplishes. Spiritual "faith" is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 5:22. The natural man does not have spiritual faith until he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Gal 2:16, We are justified by the FAITH OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed (by our spiritual faith) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh (natural man) be justified.

If you really want to keep the scriptures in context, keep in mind as to whom they are written to, which is the regenerated children of God, not to the natural man that cannot discern them.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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You, like most on this forum who believe that there is something that you have to do, to get eternal salvation, are trying your best, by misrepresenting the scriptures, to enable the natural man to understand the things of the Spirit.

The inspired scriptures are written to God's regenerated children, as instructions, as to how he wants them to live their lives, while they sojourn here on earth. They are not written to the natural man, instructing him how to get saved eternally, because the natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.

1 Cor 2:11, For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God

The only "faith" that the natural man has is a faith in man, and what he accomplishes. Spiritual "faith" is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 5:22. The natural man does not have spiritual faith until he has been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Gal 2:16, We are justified by the FAITH OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed (by our spiritual faith) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh (natural man) be justified.

If you really want to keep the scriptures in context, keep in mind as to whom they are written to, which is the regenerated children of God, not to the natural man that cannot discern them.
Umm, you are trying to equate their belief as something they work for where the fact Jesus did said they need/have to believe in him and his message. You see you cannot even harmonize the word of God. You accused me of adding the words while trying to explain it, however here, you are just as free to add and subtract it? Hmm...this is a total misrepresentation of the scripture of truth. You try to deny the plain words. Your Galatian 2:16 is perhaps your paraphrase is not the truth after all. Moreover, I fail to see any counterpoint, just your an idea of circular reasoning.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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1Corinthians2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness unto him,neither can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.



Therefore not quickened/ made alive in Christ...no new heart of flesh...because they are spiritually dead.
You just better discussed the context, I failed to see it from this post though respectfully this is from the other thread.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Umm, you are trying to equate their belief as something they work for where the fact Jesus did said they need/have to believe in him and his message. You see you cannot even harmonize the word of God. You accused me of adding the words while trying to explain it, however here, you are just as free to add and subtract it? Hmm...this is a total misrepresentation of the scripture of truth. You try to deny the plain words. Your Galatian 2:16 is perhaps your paraphrase is not the truth after all. Moreover, I fail to see any counterpoint, just your an idea of circular reasoning.
Who is it that has the capacity to believe in the voice of a spiritual God? It is not the natural man, that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. So, who is it? John 10:26-28 tells us plainly who it is: It is God's sheep (regenerated children) that can hear (discern) his voice, and he knows them and they follow him, and he gives unto them eternal life.

The only people that can hear, and respond to the spiritual gospel are those that have been born, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Do you think that all of the old testament saints that did not know of Jesus Christ are going to hell? Even if they had heard of him through prophesy, they had never heard his gospel preached.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Who is it that has the capacity to believe in the voice of a spiritual God? It is not the natural man, that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. So, who is it? John 10:26-28 tells us plainly who it is: It is God's sheep (regenerated children) that can hear (discern) his voice, and he knows them and they follow him, and he gives unto them eternal life.

The only people that can hear, and respond to the spiritual gospel are those that have been born, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Do you think that all of the old testament saints that did not know of Jesus Christ are going to hell? Even if they had heard of him through prophesy, they had never heard his gospel preached.
I would offer it would appear they did hear the gospel of their salvation revealed in parables through the ceremonial laws. The Spirit of Christ that worked in them preached the gospel beforehand. We look back to that glorious day they looked ahead by the same spirit of faith as it is written

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Who is it that has the capacity to believe in the voice of a spiritual God? It is not the natural man, that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. So, who is it? John 10:26-28 tells us plainly who it is: It is God's sheep (regenerated children) that can hear (discern) his voice, and he knows them and they follow him, and he gives unto them eternal life.

The only people that can hear, and respond to the spiritual gospel are those that have been born, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Do you think that all of the old testament saints that did not know of Jesus Christ are going to hell? Even if they had heard of him through prophesy, they had never heard his gospel preached.
I just checked and the word “believe” and its various derivatives is used about 250 times in Scripture. Many are associated with eternal life. It makes absolutely no sense to assert that God makes one “believe” to be saved.

According to your theory God makes one believe, in order that they might believe. See how silly that looks?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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I'm not sure this is what it is saying? ///
Like Philippians 1:6 If he began the good work of his faith in us "salvation" He will finish the promise of faith///
Is paul talking about salvation there ?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Those to whom those verses are speaking of did not recognise the voice of Jesus and His words because they were not following the Fathers words. Simple . No gnostic interpretation needed here . Not everything is ' mystical ' in the bible . Being pricked in the heart is not mystical . Lydia's heart opening is not mystical . Calvinists not every verse is about you.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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Thank you for your perspective Garee, but the question was not asked because I was unsure of the answer.

p.s.-do you know the definition of succinct?
Sorry the answer as to my conclusion was no one can understand the gospel unless God wills them to.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,961
667
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Who is it that has the capacity to believe in the voice of a spiritual God? It is not the natural man, that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. So, who is it? John 10:26-28 tells us plainly who it is: It is God's sheep (regenerated children) that can hear (discern) his voice, and he knows them and they follow him, and he gives unto them eternal life.

The only people that can hear, and respond to the spiritual gospel are those that have been born, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Do you think that all of the old testament saints that did not know of Jesus Christ are going to hell? Even if they had heard of him through prophesy, they had never heard his gospel preached.
I believe you have left the very most important part when Jesus said to the doubting Jews so it lacks your explanation. Let me check what's in the word especially vv. 25-26. Believe it or not, it takes belief and unbelief that gives evidence if they were of sheep or not. Since Jesus told them already who he is and he is clear, it will just take belief or unbelief. He has told them and to whomsoever "believe in him" will be given eternal life. The below passages may speaks a volume on this belief and unbelief. Christ speaks that belief on Him results to having eternal life (regeneration) and yet there those who will not put their faith on him "Believest thou this?" Of course, those who rejected Christ will never belong to his sheep. They were not part of his sheep because in the first place they didn't believe.

John 10:25-26
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Sorry the answer as to my conclusion was no one can understand the gospel unless God wills them to.
On that we agree, the scriptures seem to indicate that He does so when agree that we are in need of a Savior. We repent and believe and He quickens our spirit.

There would be no need for anyone to share the gospel if man has no part, albeit, such a small one, as to only believe.