What does that simple question reveal?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#221
Oct 20, 2022
1,041
187
63
#221
George71 said:
The Ascended Christ
Click to expand...
Read my previous post to another individual, which applies to YOU as well. Post #197 on this thread.

CHRIST IS NOT A "That", and if you think he is referred to as such by the scripture in question, or should be referred to as "THAT", you really need to rethink things. Read the post which I hope opens your eyes on this as well as on the subject of the gifts, which is grossly misunderstood by the vast majority, skewing their beliefs.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#222
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#222
CS1 said:
Roman chapter 6 states

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,


Nothing of this says Baptism saves you. it is all symbolic, but we are to apply it as WE have been crucified with Christ, and we are to recon ourselves Derad to sin and Only be alive in Christ.
Click to expand...
I personally accept that obedience to baptism brings about what Paul stated in the scripture.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#223
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#223
@phil36 See post 194. I was mistaken. @JBTN brought it to my attention that scripture reveals that the Philip who presented the gospel message to the Samaritans was not one of the original apostles. I'm sure glad JBTN took the time to share the scriptures. I apologize if my error caused any confusion.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#224
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,317
113
#224
Wansvic said:
I personally accept that obedience to baptism brings about what Paul stated in the scripture.
Click to expand...
I do to, those who are saved will follow in Obedience and get baptized :) AS Roman chapter 6 states.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#225
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#225
CS1 said:
I do to, those who are saved will follow in Obedience and get baptized :) AS Roman chapter 6 states.
Click to expand...
Note the word "IF" in verse 5. That "IF" sure points to obedience to water baptism being essential. Verse 6 points to what is recorded in Acts 2:38; obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus results in sins being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice.
"For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, .." Rom. 6:5-6
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#226
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,317
113
#226
Wansvic said:
Note the word "IF" in verse 5. That "IF" sure points to obedience to water baptism being essential. Verse 6 points to what is recorded in Acts 2:38; obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus results in sins being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice.
"For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, .." Rom. 6:5-6
Click to expand...
The problem is
1. there was water Baptism done that was not in the "Name of Jesus" and yet valid. The reason for water baptism in the name of Jesus was that they were ordered not to speak in his name to teach. in the name of Jesus means by the authority of.


You would tell a person who is saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and was water baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is not valid. That is unbiblical and eliciting scripture to support a Oness Doctrine.

What Peter said in Acts 2:38 has not been kept in context.


“In the name of”
The phrase “in the name of” means “by the authority of.” Whether “in the name of Jesus Christ” or “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” the meaning is the same. Either way, it means that when the apostles baptized someone, they were doing so by God’s authority.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#227
Apr 7, 2014
25,464
13,409
113
58
#227
CS1 said:
The problem is
1. there was water Baptism done that was not in the "Name of Jesus" and yet valid. The reason for water baptism in the name of Jesus was that they were ordered not to speak in his name to teach. in the name of Jesus means by the authority of.

You would tell a person who is saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and was water baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is not valid. That is unbiblical and eliciting scripture to support a Oness Doctrine.

What Peter said in Acts 2:38 has not been kept in context.

“In the name of”
The phrase “in the name of” means “by the authority of.” Whether “in the name of Jesus Christ” or “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” the meaning is the same. Either way, it means that when the apostles baptized someone, they were doing so by God’s authority.
Click to expand...
Amen! I've been trying to explain this to Wansvic for the longest time now but apparently, Wansvic is thoroughly indoctrinated and appears to be unteachable. :(

This Oneness Pentecostal error has already been corrected numerous times. Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains that baptism must be by immersion using the formula “in Jesus name” and not the formula “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” as is found in Matthew 28:19. The phrase, "in Jesus' name," “in the name of the Lord,” is not a reference to a baptismal salvation formula but a reference to authority. It is similar to hearing someone say, “Stop in the name of the Law!” We understand that the “name of the Law” means by the authority of the Law. It is the same with baptism “in Jesus’ name.” To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize in the authority of Jesus.

Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula “In Jesus name.” Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)

The proper way to baptize in Jesus’ name is to say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

https://carm.org/oneness-pentecostal/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name-baptize/
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#228
Oct 20, 2022
1,041
187
63
#228
CS1 said:
The problem is
1. there was water Baptism done that was not in the "Name of Jesus" and yet valid. The reason for water baptism in the name of Jesus was that they were ordered not to speak in his name to teach. in the name of Jesus means by the authority of.


You would tell a person who is saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and was water baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is not valid. That is unbiblical and eliciting scripture to support a Oness Doctrine.

What Peter said in Acts 2:38 has not been kept in context.


“In the name of”
The phrase “in the name of” means “by the authority of.” Whether “in the name of Jesus Christ” or “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” the meaning is the same. Either way, it means that when the apostles baptized someone, they were doing so by God’s authority.
Click to expand...
I've thought about this a lot because scripture does not and cannot contradict itself or does one supercede another as this case could suggest if not looked at correctly. So, what does Mat 28:19 and Acts 2:38 mean?? See my short review of this below which I've previously shared here and elsewhere.

Regarding Mat 28:19 as opposed to Acts 2:38. In reality, most likely either is acceptable: Why? Because we tend to look at the verses wrong.

What Mat 28:19 is really saying by "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost", is by the authority of, or at the behest of, or as commanded by the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, and not the intent of in their individual names, like Jehova, or YHWH, or Jesus, or whatevet the name of the Holy Ghost is. It doesn't say in the names (plural) of, but in the name (singular) of. It's by their authority as is Acts 2:38; by the authority of Jesus.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#229
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#229
CS1 said:
The problem is
1. there was water Baptism done that was not in the "Name of Jesus" and yet valid. The reason for water baptism in the name of Jesus was that they were ordered not to speak in his name to teach. in the name of Jesus means by the authority of.


You would tell a person who is saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and was water baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is not valid. That is unbiblical and eliciting scripture to support a Oness Doctrine.

What Peter said in Acts 2:38 has not been kept in context.


“In the name of”
The phrase “in the name of” means “by the authority of.” Whether “in the name of Jesus Christ” or “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” the meaning is the same. Either way, it means that when the apostles baptized someone, they were doing so by God’s authority.
Click to expand...
The point of the post was in reference to the usage of the word "IF." IF a person is planted in the likeness of Jesus death, they shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.

"Note the word "IF" in verse 5. That "IF" sure points to obedience to water baptism being essential. Verse 6 points to what is recorded in Acts 2:38; obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus results in sins being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice.

"For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, .." Rom. 6:5-6"
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#230
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#230
mailmandan said:
Amen! I've been trying to explain this to Wansvic for the longest time now but apparently, Wansvic is thoroughly indoctrinated and appears to be unteachable. :(

This Oneness Pentecostal error has already been corrected numerous times. Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains that baptism must be by immersion using the formula “in Jesus name” and not the formula “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” as is found in Matthew 28:19. The phrase, "in Jesus' name," “in the name of the Lord,” is not a reference to a baptismal salvation formula but a reference to authority. It is similar to hearing someone say, “Stop in the name of the Law!” We understand that the “name of the Law” means by the authority of the Law. It is the same with baptism “in Jesus’ name.” To baptize in Jesus’ name is to baptize in the authority of Jesus.

Therefore, the Oneness Pentecostal people are simply in error by demanding that baptism be done with the formula “In Jesus name.” Instead, it should be done as Jesus commanded: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19)

The proper way to baptize in Jesus’ name is to say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

https://carm.org/oneness-pentecostal/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name-baptize/
Click to expand...
The primary reference in the post was the usage of the word "IF" in the Romans 6 scripture. However, the two of you pinpointed on the reference to Jesus' name in Acts 2:38. My post was not about that at all. The point concerned sin seen in Acts 2:38 and Romans 6:6; remission/destroying of sins.

My post:
"Note the word "IF" in verse 5. That "IF" sure points to obedience to water baptism being essential. Verse 6 points to what is recorded in Acts 2:38; obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus results in sins being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice.

"For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, .." Rom. 6:5-6
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#231
Apr 7, 2014
25,464
13,409
113
58
#231
Wansvic said:
The primary reference in the post was the usage of the word "IF" in the Romans 6 scripture. However, the two of you pinpointed on the reference to Jesus' name in Acts 2:38. My post was not about that at all. The point concerned sin seen in Acts 2:38 and Romans 6:6; remission/destroying of sins.

My post:
"Note the word "IF" in verse 5. That "IF" sure points to obedience to water baptism being essential. Verse 6 points to what is recorded in Acts 2:38; obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus results in sins being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice.

"For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, .." Rom. 6:5-6
Click to expand...
I have already thoroughly covered Acts 2:38 with you multiple times in multiple posts. In regards to Romans 6, Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is simply the picture of the reality. What is signified in water baptism is procured through faith. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6: 5:1) Your eisegesis culminates in works salvation.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#232
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,317
113
#232
Wansvic said:
The point of the post was in reference to the usage of the word "IF." IF a person is planted in the likeness of Jesus death, they shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.

"Note the word "IF" in verse 5. That "IF" sure points to obedience to water baptism being essential. Verse 6 points to what is recorded in Acts 2:38; obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus results in sins being remitted in association with Jesus' sacrifice.

"For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, .." Rom. 6:5-6"
Click to expand...

"IF"?

Roman 10:9-11

If you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth, and so is saved. 11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”


Once you have been convicted by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said, The Holy Spirit would reprove SIN, and one sees their need for forgiveness and for Jesus, they are able to Believe in the Lord Jesus in their heart and be saved as Jesus said in the Gospel of John
chapter 3:16-19
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#233
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,317
113
#233
CS1 said:
"IF"?

Roman 10:9-11

If you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth, and so is saved. 11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”


Once you have been convicted by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said, The Holy Spirit would reprove SIN, and one sees their need for forgiveness and for Jesus, they are able to Believe in the Lord Jesus in their heart and be saved as Jesus said in the Gospel of John
chapter 3:16-19
Click to expand...

John 3:16-19

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Jesus is Salvation, not Water Baptism. Water baptism is an act of obedience and is symbolic of oneself dying, being buried, and resurrecting a new person, in Christ no longer bound by the death of sin, the grave, or hell Because

That is what Jesus saved US from:

IF you believe in faith in the Lord and are saved by Grace given to us by God Through faith in The Only Son.

Jesus is the only Way, the only Truth, and the Only Life.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#234
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#234
CS1 said:
"IF"?

Roman 10:9-11

If you confess* with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth, and so is saved. 11 For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”


Once you have been convicted by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus said, The Holy Spirit would reprove SIN, and one sees their need for forgiveness and for Jesus, they are able to Believe in the Lord Jesus in their heart and be saved as Jesus said in the Gospel of John
chapter 3:16-19
Click to expand...
"IF" in both scriptures apply. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#235
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#235
CS1 said:
John 3:16-19

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Jesus is Salvation, not Water Baptism. Water baptism is an act of obedience and is symbolic of oneself dying, being buried, and resurrecting a new person, in Christ no longer bound by the death of sin, the grave, or hell Because

That is what Jesus saved US from:

IF you believe in faith in the Lord and are saved by Grace given to us by God Through faith in The Only Son.

Jesus is the only Way, the only Truth, and the Only Life.
Click to expand...
John chapter 3 starts at verse 1. All scripture is given... (2 Tim 3:16)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.