What happened to the "John 3:16 won't get anyone into Heaven " thread?

[jasonj]

This is a perfect example of someone who requires water baptism to save.

or someone who believes in following Jesus who said of His own water baptism " let us do this to fulfill all righteousness" or it is right to be baptized. if Jesus did it, why do we need to figure out if we have to do it or not? I think Jesus probably knows better than any of us. if He says it fulfills all righteousness, where is the validity of an opposing argument? does it matter why He says to do something? if Jesu says its right, its right. there is no reason to try to say its not important or necessary. His words w=each are important and for us to follow. why not just get baptized is what I don't get....and then look for the next move after

 

[RobbyEarl]

Man just feels like He must do something to be saved. But it is a free gift. We wants so bad to justify our self that we will come up with all sorts of things. Rather than just reach out our hand a say thank you. I'm saying if you got a MCD monopoly piece for a free QP would you offer to pay for it? No, you would run down there and get it.

 

[redeemed2014]

or someone who believes in following Jesus who said of His own water baptism " let us do this to fulfill all righteousness" or it is right to be baptized. if Jesus did it, why do we need to figure out if we have to do it or not? I think Jesus probably knows better than any of us. if He says it fulfills all righteousness, where is the validity of an opposing argument? does it matter why He says to do something? if Jesu says its right, its right. there is no reason to try to say its not important or necessary. His words w=each are important and for us to follow. why not just get baptized is what I don't get....and then look for the next move after

The Lord Jesus Christ came to the Jew first to fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant, he spoke to the Jew under the law and taught in synagogues. Our salvation comes from the risen Lord spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 among many other places. Not everything that the Lord Jesus Christ spoke to the Jew was meant for us, but it is to be used for our learning. These two verses are the spoken words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

We were baptized with the Holy Ghost into the body of Christ (the church)

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

 

[redeemed2014]

Man just feels like He must do something to be saved. But it is a free gift. We wants so bad to justify our self that we will come up with all sorts of things. Rather than just reach out our hand a say thank you. I'm saying if you got a MCD monopoly piece for a free QP would you offer to pay for it? No, you would run down there and get it.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Amen Brother!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The baptism of the spirit is not a baptism into death. It is a baptism into life. Water baptism is the baptism into death.

 

[B1Davanda]

Water baptism is faith in Christ alone. duh...

And The Moody Blues wrote this:

Cold hearted orb that rules the night,
Removes the colours from our sight,
--->Red is gray and yellow white,<--- (duh?)
But we decide which is right.
And which is an illusion.......

This is what oldhermit says about what happens in the waters of baptism:



This is 100% salvation by works in disguise!

It just gets curiouser and curiouser, don't it, brother?
______________________________________________________

White Rabbit
Jefferson Airplane
Lyrics:

One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Alice
When she's ten feet tall

And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell 'em a hookah-smoking caterpillar
Has given you the call
Call Alice
When she was just small

When the men on the chessboard
Get up and tell you where to go
And you've just had some kind of mushroom
And your mind is moving low
Go ask Alice
I think she'll know

When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head
Remember what the dormouse said
Feed your head Feed your head
___________________________________

(Bless it's pointed little head)

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I know theres a few people who might understand being baptized as some sort of justification "of self", but Johns baptism "justified God" in that very doing (and not self)

Notice how its worded

Luke 7:29
And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God,
being baptized with the baptism of John.

It was those who were self righteous who rejected God's counsel

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves,
being not baptized of him.

So those that were baptized were not justifing themselves in that doing but justifying God (as it points out) the other didnt seem to feel Gods counsel was justifiable or they felt justified rejecting it I dont know, but they wouldnt be justifying themselves if they had but God.

 

[redeemed2014]

The baptism of the spirit is not a baptism into death. It is a baptism into life. Water baptism is the baptism into death.

I understand that, if you read the whole verse it is talking about your old man is dead and you are now a new creature, and as that new creature you are now reconciled to the Lord and your sins have been wiped away past, present, and future. Which can only be obtained by believing in the gospel and the work of the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). My apologies next time i will clarify why i put the verse better.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

 

[fredoheaven]

That is correct, because John's baptism did not offer salvation, only forgiveness of sins... much like the animal sacrifices did. Those were not a one time only forgiveness, but had to be repeated yearly IIRC. John's baptism would have been the same way.

There seems to be incorrect on the post, John's baptism cannot even offer forgiveness of sins, if that's the case Christ is not Christ after all. He could not be a Saviour since it implies Christ sinned and needs forgiveness. Now not taking Christ as an example, yet John's baptism is "unto repentance for the remissions of sins" thus it will be the "repentance that remits sins" and where John's baptism acts only as portrayal of repentance.

Again, you may now try to demolish me with that "repentance that remits sins" but the term is "synecdoche" to represent in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for a part.

God bless you sir!

 

[fredoheaven]

I know theres a few people who might understand being baptized as some sort of justification "of self", but Johns baptism "justified God" in that very doing (and not self)

Notice how its worded

Luke 7:29
And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God,
being baptized with the baptism of John.

It was those who were self righteous who rejected God's counsel

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves,
being not baptized of him.

So those that were baptized were not justifing themselves in that doing but justifying God (as it points out) the other didnt seem to feel Gods counsel was justifiable or they felt justified rejecting it I dont know, but they wouldnt be justifying themselves if they had but God.

Okay, the word "justified" here is not to mean "God's Justification for Righteousness". As per context it says, all the people and the pubilcans, being baptized with John's baptism "justified God" meaning they defend or uphold John's ministry who prepared the way of our Lord Jesus Christ, whereas the Pharisees and lawyers "rejected" or refused the counsel of God against themselves on the authority given by God to him that's why they denied John's baptism.

God bless

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Okay, the word "justified" here is not to mean "God's Justification for Righteousness". As per context it says, all the people and the pubilcans, being baptized with John's baptism "justified God" meaning they defend or uphold John's ministry who prepared the way of our Lord Jesus Christ, whereas the Pharisees and lawyers "rejected" or refused the counsel of God against themselves on the authority given by God to him that's why they denied John's baptism.

God bless

Whether you justify God in John who come in the way of righteousness or follow in the steps of Jesus Christ (who is our righteousness) in the same, it would be justifying God not ourselves.

If it was Gods counsel to do so in John how much more in Christ

I dont really understand all the wrestling with it like that I dont get the point in doing that to the scriptures.

Just obey Jesus Christ, God bless you too

 

[hornetguy]

There seems to be incorrect on the post, John's baptism cannot even offer forgiveness of sins, if that's the case Christ is not Christ after all. He could not be a Saviour since it implies Christ sinned and needs forgiveness. Now not taking Christ as an example, yet John's baptism is "unto repentance for the remissions of sins" thus it will be the "repentance that remits sins" and where John's baptism acts only as portrayal of repentance.

Again, you may now try to demolish me with that "repentance that remits sins" but the term is "synecdoche" to represent in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for a part.

God bless you sir!

Demolish you? I have no desire to demolish you at all.... I appreciate your explanation of John's baptism. I need to study it further, and will do so. Thank you..

 

[B1Davanda]

Okay, the word "justified" here is not to mean "God's Justification for Righteousness". As per context it says, all the people and the pubilcans, being baptized with John's baptism "justified God" meaning they defend or uphold John's ministry who prepared the way of our Lord Jesus Christ, whereas the Pharisees and lawyers "rejected" or refused the counsel of God against themselves on the authority given by God to him that's why they denied John's baptism.

God bless

RIGHT! It's not just that they were refusing to be baptised, but they were rejecting that this had any authority from God.
They were refusing to BELIEVE.
If water-baptism actually took away sins, not just represented the taking away of sins which was done at the cross, what sins are the water-works ppl saying Jesus was having taken away when He was baptized?

They really better get their doctrine right, because they not only deny the sufficiency of Christ'sacrifice ON THE CROSS to take away OUR sins, but they also border on calling our Savior a sinner at His water-baptism.

 

[Depleted]

The FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT THREAD and the JOHN 3:16 thread were deleted by the mods I believe. They both had irrefutable evidence of who is teaching damnable heresy on this site!

Oi vey. Guess again. When boys and girls get overheated in tantrums and forget they're really men and women, it's best to pull off what is causing the tantrum.

And if the kids still forget they're adults, the next thing is to ban the kids.

 

[KenAllan]

Being possible is NOT the same as being Baptized. You HeRoseFromTheDead cannot just go around making up anything you want just because you want to.

You HAVE to show us where in the Scriptures God said the Thief had received Baptism.

This is why you are nothing more than a Wolf in Sheep clothing. A False Prophet doomed to the Lake of Fire.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

RIGHT! It's not just that they were refusing to be baptised, but they were rejecting that this had any authority from God.
They were refusing to BELIEVE.
If water-baptism actually took away sins, not just represented the taking away of sins which was done at the cross, what sins are the water-works ppl saying Jesus was having taken away when He was baptized?

They really better get their doctrine right, because they not only deny the sufficiency of Christ'sacrifice ON THE CROSS to take away OUR sins, but they also border on calling our Savior a sinner at His water-baptism.

The issue is not whether baptism takes away sins. Some may believe that, but I don't. GOD alone takes away sins.

The issue is when does the new birth happen. Some say it happens in the water (not by, or because of, the water); others say it happens the moment a person believes. That's really all there is to this issue.

 

[Grace777x70]

The whole point of what the thread was originally all about was whether being water baptized is necessary in order to receive remission of sins and to be regenerated ( that is be born-again into Christ ).

It is NOT and never was about whether believers should get water baptized. That is the smoke screen. Either we have our sins washed away by the blood of Jesus and are born-again when we believe in Jesus as the scriptures clearly show or as some falsely teach this remission of sins and being born of the Spirit only occurs when people are water baptized. That is the real issue here.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being obedient to get water baptized. All believers in Christ should be water baptized.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp? Why can't we see the difference between believing in Christ's finished work for salvation and going through an outward representation of what happened to us from when we believed in Christ's work?

 

[pottersclay]

Ya know what.....bottom line is this after 30 years in the word I still am looking for answers and am being taught. The easiest way I found to keep on the path is to follow Jesus. He seemed to know all the answers even to the questions I didn't know to ask.
That my friend is not blind faith but a faith in the one I choose to follow.
God doesn't owe me anything...not even a explanation.

 

[roaringkitten]

The whole point of what the thread was originally all about was whether being water baptized is necessary in order to receive remission of sins and to be regenerated ( that is be born-again into Christ ).

It is NOT and never was about whether believers should get water baptized. That is the smoke screen. Either we have our sins washed away by the blood of Jesus and are born-again when we believe in Jesus as the scriptures clearly show or as some falsely teach this remission of sins and being born of the Spirit only occurs when people are water baptized. That is the real issue here.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being obedient to get water baptized. All believers in Christ should be water baptized.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp? Why can't we see the difference between believing in Christ's finished work for salvation and going through an outward representation of what happened to us from when we believed in Christ's work?

Some people are honestly confused due to being led by a wolf to believe like that. Other times, wolves themselves run around and mischaracterize our positions like they have done constantly here. They know what we believe exactly, but willingly choose to bear false testimony against us. Baptismal regeneration is a lie of the devil and a works gospel.

 

[KenAllan]

As Believers we are to be Baptized because said we should be Baptized.

Jesus never said Salvation is received by Baptism.

Jesus knew there would be those who after receiving Salvation could not be Baptized like the Thief on the Cross.

There are some here that are missing the point. The main point is Faith! It was by Faith that Abraham was Justified, not by works. Its by Faith that we receive Salvation, not by works.

It never has been by works like the False Prophets teach.