What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel

eternally-gratefull · Nov 18, 2014

it is no different than a kid saying he has faith in his father, yet every time the father asks him to do something, he refuses. He disobeys his father at every turn.

Now is anyone here going to say that kid really had faith in his father? No. His faith was dead. He had no faith at all in his father, he was either lieing outright, or fooled himself into thinking he trusted his father.

fredjames · Nov 19, 2014

mailmandan said:

To sum up your debating replies, that water baptism is not required for believers even today? In faith we just believe that it is already been done before by JESUS, the Apostles and the church written in the New Covenant. The justification comes from that Apostle Paul was not baptize himself.

fredjames · Nov 19, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

You dudes, prostitute 'conformed to the pattern of this world', and you dare use the worldly term 'dude' and will even 'dudes' onto the believers of the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

As it is written;

"If you put yourself above others, you will be put down."

In the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, as it is written, shall come as a chastisement of GOD to you, for the sake of HIS lambs and sheep who are witnessing Grace and Truth and not hypocrisy lukewarm boldness.

fredjames · Nov 19, 2014

mailmandan said:

As it is written in the Gospel, to you and your supporters of partial 'sound doctrine faith' of New Covenant believers, as Pharisees in this forum forcing that partial truth through, and by disregarding what 'gifted' others are saying in humble and humility way possible, as given by the LORD to the HOLY SPIRIT to them, channeling to you all who are proud, as 'a reminder' and 'a stir up of memory' in order to 'stay awake' and 'be alert', that;

"I did not come into this world to judge and even if I judge, I will judge with 'just' and 'fair'."

And it is written about HIS unworthy servants;

"You will do even greater things that I have done."

And also written;

"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."

Together written;

1. "Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?"

2. "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?"

3. "GOD judges those outside."

fredjames · Nov 19, 2014

To all the lambs and sheep of the New Testament sound doctrine faith, who hear only the Good Shepherd's voice and only follow HIM and not strangers. Do not be deceived and deviate from all that is written and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT from the beginning, by listening to 'lack of supplement to their faith', male and female goats alike in their 'lawlessness' showing off.

Why?

The New Testament is given by GOD to JESUS and JESUS to HIS instruments, through the HOLY SPIRIT. JESUS spoke and did things with the HOLY SPIRIT, through the 'abiding' to HIS Word Apostles. They are all JESUS's teachings of commandments and instructions and future 'Revelation'. That is why HE is called as; 'The author and finisher of our faith', according to the New Covenant, as; 'Faith comes from hearing and hearing the Word(CHRIST of the New Covenant) of GOD'.

JESUS, your Good Shepherd said this to puzzled Nicodemus about how to truly be born again, that;

"Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of GOD."

Then HE answered again;

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the SPIRIT, he cannot enter the Kingdom of GOD."

So we do or take baptism in faith by listening to the Good Shepherd's voice and follow HIM and forsake the stranger's, who have forsake the 'GATE/DOOR' and have climb in through the fence. We do not do it hoping to witness a sign of change in us but following the MASTER's Word(CHRIST) in faith action.

Apart from JESUS's words, those who look for signs are an adulteress and perverse generation, always looking for signs. But the only sign they will have is the HOLY BIBLE, the story of Jonah in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights and the story of the SON of man in the belly of this earth for three days and three nights.

When GOD in HIS word told Abraham to circumcise and his household, in agreement to HIS promised Covenant, did they all witness a magical sensation change happening within them. Didn't Abraham do it in faith, upon listening to GOD's voice?

Abraham did not have the HOLY BIBLE, but if he did. he would do everything that GOD has said through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT written in the New Covenant. He may be hoping as our mentioned 'father of faith', as an example in the New Testament, as forerunners for him, to do them in similar faith. as he did beforehand blindly to the promises, he have not yet seen but obediently and submissively to what GOD has said.

As how the sneaked in Jews persuaded the Galatians Gentile Christian to practice circumcision behind Apostle Paul's back, the same sneaked in 'wolves in sheep clothing' forbid water baptism behind the LORD's back, the written sound doctrine knowledge of the New Covenant.

They are not opposing you and me, but the HOLY SPIRIT who inspired 'All Scripture' and teach us to understand them all as a whole, by putting all the puzzles back together and displaying a Glorious picture of the Kingdom of GOD, through CHRIST and established to follow path of 'spirit' and 'life', that leads to 'GOD's place of rest'.

In te name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, repent imposters! or repent through the due chastisement of the living GOD, who will love you still until you get them right. This is also one of the work of correction and chastisement, HE has also started in you and HE will complete it for you, as you proclaimed boldly.

i am just HIS least important unworthy servant, who just doing my given duty to prophesy in order to built up GOD's lambs and sheep, 'in reminder' and 'stir up of memory' of written and established sound doctrine Holy Scripture.

fredjames · Nov 19, 2014

Add/supplement to your faith, lambs and sheep of CHRIST in HIS unworthy servant's prophesy that, JESUS named Simon as Peter, meaning the 'Rock', and in whom CHRIST will build HIS church upon and Apostle Peter said this in the book of Acts, saying;

"Can anyone stop us from baptizing people with water."

And Philip was earnestly looking for water to baptize a Eunuch(Gentile), in the same book, even proclaimed as 'The Acts of the Apostles'.

But most importantly what JESUS said to Nicodemus.

Apostle Paul did not forbid physical water Baptism but only added revelation knowledge to their initial faith, to grow further in faith in order to practice Spiritual baptism, with the HOLY SPIRIT who leads them to lead others into the full truth, 'that is to bury the old man of carnality/flesh with CHRIST and resurrect with CHRIST as a new creature to Spirituality'.

And JESUS said this to HIS disciples, and proclaimed in the Gospel of John, that is one of the HELPER duty to them, 'to lead them into the full truth'.

Zmouth · Nov 19, 2014

JamesFlash said:

While the Holy Ghost is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Eternal Light in whom their is no variableness and no shadow of turning.

The Holy Ghost, is the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

John 3:35
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
KJV

John 5:26
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

1 Tim 6:16
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

mailmandan · Nov 19, 2014

fredjames said:

To Bible is clear in its teachings that all Christians are expected to be baptized in water. On the other hand, the New Testament makes it equally clear that men become saved prior to receiving water baptism. These Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the gift of tongues from the Holy Spirit after believing the gospel but before being baptized (Acts 10:44-47). This observation must be balanced, however, by the fact that baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for them; it was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ (Acts 10:43). Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4). There are a number of prooftexts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts prove only that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation. Show me just ONE verse in the Bible that says whoever is NOT water baptized will NOT be saved. We find this with repentance (Luke 13:3) and belief (John 3:18) so why not baptism?

mailmandan · Nov 19, 2014

fredjames said:

Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *Did you see that? If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. In John 7:37, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. Verse 38-39 - living water, Spirit. Jesus connects this living water with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. So it's not a reference to baptismal regeneration but to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 19, 2014

fredjames said:

this answers my post to you? I guess you have nothing. And definitely have nothing to back your claims about me

Newsflash, You legalists are the ones putting yourself above others. Not those of us who have humbles ourselves to the point of the cross.

You should watch what you type, and think before you speak.

endtimes · Nov 19, 2014

mailmandan said:

The living water is spirit, but how do you suppose we get that living water. We obey the gospel, the full gospel, and nothing but the whole gospel of the Death, Burial, Resurrection. Nothing short of this will save us...

Jesus said that we must be born again to enter the kingdom. Let's turn to John chapter three...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Born again is of water and spirit. And, without this we cannot enter the kingdom. In fact, the book of Acts will cross reference this in chapter two...

[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If we are to obey the gospel, we would have to do what Peter said to do...

1. Death = repent
2. Burial = baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3. Resurrection = Holy Spirit

Notice the above, we have both water and spirit (burial and resurrection).

God bless!

eternally-gratefull · Nov 19, 2014

endtimes said:

Here we go with self righteousness again.

Jesus spoke of who and what the water was in John 4 (we should see this since it immediately follows John 3, but some of us can not see for some reason)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, [SUP]14 [/SUP]but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

seek the living water, not the dead water, seek the water given by God, which cleanses us from all sin, not the dead water we are plunged into by man which can only get us wet, and has no power to clean one small sin, let alone every sin we have committed, are committing, and will ever commit.

newbirth · Nov 19, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Acts 19:2-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And all the men were about twelve.

notice have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed...the answer is no....I must interject here for those who think one receives the HS by only believing...He does not ask unto who did you believe or what did you believe as to the reason why they did not receive the HS....he asked ....[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptised?...It is clear that his understanding was ...believe ,repent,baptise ,receive the HS....
If Paul did not have a high view of baptism ...why did he preach to these that they were baptised in the name of Jesus Christ to receive the HS

oldthennew · Nov 19, 2014

1COR. 1:14,
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but' Crispus and Gaius';

as Jason pointed out, Paul was not sent to baptize, but it is very clear from this scripture
that 'if it needed' to be done, he would perform this function.'

ROMANS 6:4.
Therefore WE are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up
from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
this makes it very clear that Paul 'included' himself in being Baptized.

Christ was Baptized, Christ is our example to follow,
as it is written,
1COR. 11:1.
Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

1PTER 2:21.
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example,
that ye should follow his steps:

the instructions in Peter are so simple, 'as Christ does, we follow His example.

11COR. 11:3.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

mailmandan · Nov 20, 2014

endtimes said:

The Holy Spirit is the source of living water that provides cleansing/spiritual washing/purification of the soul. Plain ordinary H20 has no power to do this.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16) by trusting in the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation. That is the full gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Salvation by plain ordinary H20 and works is a "different" gospel that cannot save.

Again, we find this water/living water (John 4:10, 14) and Spirit in John 7:38-39. There are not two sources of water that cause us to become born again.

You don't need to look any further than John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 to find out what this water is. John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in hims fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. Can you say that about water baptism?

Water baptism is not this living water in John 4:10,14; 7:38-39 and is not the baptism that by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body with and said to drink into one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13). Also, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit (PRIOR TO WATER BAPTISM) just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*

False. Believing the gospel is signified in, but not caused by getting water baptized. Those who believe the gospel by choosing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the all sufficient means of their salvation have obeyed the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16). When will you BELIEVE the gospel? Salvation by "plain ordinary H20 and works" is a "different" gospel.

Plain ordinary H20 is not the water that we drink and will never thirst. Living water is the water that Jesus gives us that becomes in us a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life (John 4:10,14). You have the wrong water and the wrong gospel.

fredjames · Nov 20, 2014

Everyone need to go through the physical baptism first, as a child begin to the Word(CHRIST), before growing through the New Testament teachings of commandments and instructions of 'spirit' and 'life' and continue in practice to them, in our own saved lives first, in order to remove the 'log' in our own eyes, before we are able to see clearly, Then we are able to further achieve knowledge of the 'full truth' and practice the works of Spiritual baptism, by forsaking and die to 'self', even it takes day by day.

Then the HOLY SPIRIT will manifest as the 'living water' in such obedient and submissive person, witnessing to the lost world, and even willingly would lay down one's life, like JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, even to shedding of one's blood and death, for GOD's Good works.

oldthennew · Nov 22, 2014

as all of us who have fallen in Love with our Lord Jesus Christ, want nothing more in our daily lives
that to do what he as told us to do and to do as His chosen have been led to teach us.
if you can't figure out what our Lord and Saviour requires of you, then it's back to milk my
brothers and sisters, 'for His yoke is easy and His burden light.'

some things are as obvious and clear as the new morning light,
while others may take a little more time to learn, but if we have truly
given our hearts to Him, all will fall into place and become
very clear at the exact right moment.

Marian29 · Nov 22, 2014

When the man suffers the consequences of his sin, begs God and still reaches Mercy, however there is a price to be paid.

I like Jonah example.
My advice is: do not run away from God's purpose for your life.
If you rebel against his purpose, God can allow painful experiences to fix it.
Sin and disobedience does not worth it.

Psalms 139:7 "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?"

newbirth · Nov 22, 2014

mailmandan said:

so you believe Jesus just wants us to get wet???

there is no obedience there...faith comes by hearing...the word of God is alive and gives the hearer faith...that is not obedience...obedience is when you do what you believed...until then you are just like the devils who believe and tremble...

until you find the first water that Jesus commanded you cannot find anything in Christ...

water baptism has it purpose...repent and be baptised for the remission of sins

you keep saying the clause is parenthetical where are the parentheses? ............ the whole statement has to be parenthetical and refer back to the speaker...who is not the writer....meaning those were the actual words spoken...... Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

YLT.....`Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]39 [/SUP]for to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call.'

baptism is there but you cannot see it.....since sins are remitted at baptism..it is a conversion from sinner to saint....

If there were no baptism then you would have a point....but they still had to be baptised....

Peter is just saying what happened in ch 10 he does not go into details but they were baptised...

again a general statement ...no details

faith in Jesus Christ can only be genuine if one repents and be baptised for the remission of sins and receive the HS

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Because you don't understand the word....
that is not a reason to reject the word of God or disobey his commands...

mailmandan · Nov 23, 2014

newbirth said:

I understand the word, have not rejected the word of God or disobeyed his commands. The gospel is the power of God UNTO SALVATION for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The gospel is hid to those who don't BELIEVE (2 Corinthians 4:3,4). This explains why you are blind and cannot see the truth that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). I pray that you will come to REPENT and BELIEVE the gospel.

What happens when Believers don't obey the Gospel

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