what I learned about oneness pentecostalism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#61

lrs68

Active member
Dec 30, 2024
178
68
28
#62
modalism
noun
mod·al·ism -ᵊlˌizəm
plural-s
: the theological doctrine that the members of the Trinity are not three distinct persons but rather three modes or forms of activity (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) under which God manifests himself
The Bible doesn't even say they are distinct persons if we're being brutally honest here. It's nowhere listed anywhere.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#63
All throughout the Gospels Jesus said God is One. Jesus never said God is 3 in 1 which we believe. A scribe mentioned to Jesus that God is One and there's nothing equal to God. Jesus said you are close to the Kingdom of God. Jesus even said the Father and I are One.

What I am saying is the oneness quote factual scripture where us trinitarians add words to the Bible. We add words but going to say the oneness are wrong. Seems that only us trinitarians are the ones sinning while the Pentecostal oneness are quoting Scripture as it is literally written word for word.

Hypocrites, we are!

Study this for where the trinity is taught: https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#64
All throughout the Gospels Jesus said God is One. Jesus never said God is 3 in 1 which we believe. A scribe mentioned to Jesus that God is One and there's nothing equal to God. Jesus said you are close to the Kingdom of God. Jesus even said the Father and I are One.

What I am saying is the oneness quote factual scripture where us trinitarians add words to the Bible. We add words but going to say the oneness are wrong. Seems that only us trinitarians are the ones sinning while the Pentecostal oneness are quoting Scripture as it is literally written word for word.

Hypocrites, we are!
study book of James about your tongue, we all have that fault at times.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#65
No, you are incorrect. The Bible indicates the trinity doctrine in several places. The first three verses of the Bible, Genesis 1:1-3. the literal foundation of the Torah and of the entirety of scripture even indicates the trinity doctrine and fits well and is double-confirmed by John 1 which that whole chapter also indicates the trinity doctrine.

The Oneness cult is overtly modalism, and modalism is a heresy that will with all certainty get one sent to hellfire with a guarantee. In order to aggrandize their cult leadership and try to make them special they have taken to themselves a very well known and damnable heresy that perverts the scriptures and constitutes them worshipping a god of their own imagination. Furthermore their damnable doctrines are eeriy close to those of the Pharisees which even that alone should give any Christian pause since the doctrines of the Pharisees are specifically warned about by Jesus in the Bible and they killed Jesus for being the Son of God and a person of the trinity and thus co-equal with the Father in majesty.
https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#67
If Moses believed in the Trinity then why is there no examples of it in the Jewish people throughout the entire Tanakh? No Jew believes it today and they still follow the teachings of Moses.

I try to get those I know to the many Calvary Chapel Churches throughout the USA so they at least hear it taught.
I attended Temple School. There are Jewish writings on the trinity,.

1736373778849.jpeg 1736373792906.jpeg 1736373805531.jpeg

https://www.jewishvoice.org/learn/theological-objections
https://www.amazon.com/Apology-Doctrine-Trinity-Chronological-Concerning/dp/1020775882
https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Talmud-New-Testament-Soloveitchiks/dp/0812250990
https://www.scribd.com/document/278...elopments/dp/0664265979108/The-Jewish-Trinity
https://www.boomplay.com/episode/8130790
https://www.amazon.com/Logos-Trinity-Evolution-Pythagoras-Tertullian/dp/1107013305

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#68
They did resist the Spirit of God indeed. No argument there. I am just saying what Jews believe from words of God to Moses who penned them.

But my first and foremost point in this thread is that the Oneness Pentecostals I know believe God is Father, Son, Holy Spirit (3 in 1) and Jesus being the WORD made flesh (begotten Son of God).
They only believe that Jesus and the Logos were thoughts in God's mind. Check out the book links and download those books to read for yourself. Maybe, those telling You those things are new in that groupl
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#69
I think you know a few groups of people and have applied that little group of beliefs to all who fall under a certain category. But I travel and evangelize and meet these groups in every state of the USA. I will take my first hand experience over the opinion of someone using a google definition. But thank you for your time. God Bless.
when you are michigan visit me
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#70
Well then you're just going to be wrong about alot of stuff I guess and your evangelizing will be for vanity because their cult definitely holds to the heresy of modalism and that's the reason why they schismed from both Pentecostalism as well as Christianity as a whole. It is incumbent that we tell them the truth that this heresy of modalism and their cult are guarantees to certain damnation unless they abandon the cult, abandon the heresy of modalism, and convert to Christianity.
They also redefine the words of scripture.;
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#71
I doubt that. Man has defined the Bible every way that they missed the Messiah standing before them. The RCC (men who were priests of the Roman Catholic Church) formatted the Bible and our Creeds. I choose the Leading of the Holy Spirit over the whore of Babylon as my advisor.
who do you think made all the copies of greek and hebrew manuscripts???? calling them the whore of Babylon is redictous..

The Babylon Connection? Paperback – March 1, 1997
by Ralph Woodrow (Author)
4.2 4.2 out of 5 stars (131) 3.7 on Goodreads 50 ratings
See all formats and editions
Shows that claims about Babylonian origins often lack connection - takes a closer look at the oft-quoted The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop providing some much needed clarification on the subject. EXCERPT: Suppose we could go back in time--back to the days of ancient Babylon. What kind of religion would we find being practiced there? According to Alexander Hislop we would find people attending a mass partaking of a little round wafer worshiping a cross going to confession being baptized with water for the remission of sins burning wax candles and bowing before a divine Mother and Child. We would notice that places of worship featured a tower. Priests wearing a circular tonsure dressed in black garments would give those who died the last rites. With monks and nuns in abundance the Babylonians would be practicing essentially all the rites known today in the Roman catholic Church! According to Alexander Hislop it all started with Nimrod and his wife Semiramis thus the subtitle of The Two Babylons: "the Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife." But any information about Nimrod and Semiramis in history books is at best sketchy. In the Bible Nimrod "the mighty hunter" is only mentioned four times--and his wife is never mentioned! Nevertheless Hislop claims to know all kinds of detailed information about Nimrod and his wife....By now the reader may be asking the obvious question: Where does Hislop get all this information? The answer is clear. Based on mere similarities he merges a variety of mythological stories together so that the hero in each becomes Nimrod. The Bible says Nimrod was a "mighty one"; in mythology Hercules was a mighty one or giant--so Hercules must have been Nimrod! Nimrod was known as "a mighty hunter"; in mythology Orion is called the Hunter--so Orion must have been Nimrod! The building of the Tower of Babylon is commonly linked with Nimrod; in mythology Kronos
https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Connection-Ralph-Woodrow/dp/0916938174
https://www.docdroid.net/8xlLlrB/woodrow-ralph-the-babylon-connection-pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/8xlLlrB/wo...e-babylon-connection-pdfylonconnectio0000wood
https://www.scribd.com/document/473870920/Babylon-Connection
http://ralphwoodrow.org/assets/books/babylon.html
https://soundcloud.com/camillarodriguezghybfn%2Fuwj-access-kindle-pdf-ebook-epub-the-babylon-connection-by-ralph-woodrow
https://openlibrary.org/books/OL294812M/The_Babylon_connection
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,266
1,589
113
68
Brighton, MI
#72
That is interesting that Jesus told His disciples to baptize in the NAME....
And then we read the Apostles (most were the direct disciples of Jesus) went and baptized in a NAME...

Definitely something to think about.
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before. ... been baptized into the name of the Lord


Matthew 28:19
Easy-to-Read Version
19 So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Acts 2:38
Easy-to-Read Version
38 Peter said to them, “Change your hearts and lives and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ. Then God will forgive your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

From my Jewish background I know Luke was using shorthand for Matthew in
Acts.
 

SonJudgment

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2024
1,013
497
83
#75
They also redefine the words of scripture.;
I'm not really trying to get sucked back into the topic, all that can really be said has been said and we'll just go about repeating ourselves too much. You put forth great points though. Dare you to post Daniel 7:13-14 and expound how this makes mincemeat out of modalism.
 
Jan 8, 2025
9
8
3
61
#76
I believe Jesus is God and the Trinity.
oneness pentecostalism teaches that Jesus was only on God's mind and as such no pre-existence. Logically he is not God. However, they claim he is God the Father. They say, the fullness of the godhead being the Father is in him. When we are born again, we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit., but we are not God. Jesus having the Father in him does not make him the Father too. They are illogical.

What do you know about oneness…

When my Father and mother first experienced a Pentecostal Church it was a oneness church. I was raised in their Church until I was 19. And moved to the east coast of the USA. And found the oneness movement there to be much more dogmatic. They have decided that there way is the only way. And it gets dangerous because they believe that if you are not baptized in the Name of Jesus you are not saved. Instead of believing in 3 manifestations of God as the Trinity, they think they are all just one in every way. Boy did my eyes open up to so many wonderful things when I started looking a God as the Father, Son, And Holy Spirit. It was beautiful.


The most dangerous thing about their teaching is they believe that a person has to be filled with the Holy Ghost Baptism in order to be saved. As a young person I had family grandparents….Cousins….that were Baptist, Nazarene…and I know they were saved.
The scripture they used was Acts 2:38… it was there formula for salvation. I guess they forgot about all the other scriptures in the Bible where it said to “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and now shall be saved”. I saw so many people go to the alter and repent, “actually get saved” but the church told them in order for them to make it to heaven they had to be baptized in the name of Jesus, and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. my mother was a pastor wife and she did not have the Holy Ghost yet. Me and my sibling were afraid every time we came home and we could find our parents the the rapture had taken place and we were left behind.


I thank God for the Father, the Son (word) and the Holy Ghost and their separate tribunes, specialties, the beauty the the Baptism of Jesus when all Three shown themselves as their separate deities but all together in one Unity.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 1, 2024
1,551
498
83
#77
I'm not really trying to get sucked back into the topic, all that can really be said has been said and we'll just go about repeating ourselves too much. You put forth great points though. Dare you to post Daniel 7:13-14 and expound how this makes mincemeat out of modalism.
Using your reasoning Daniel 7:13-14 makes mincemeat of the trinity because thee is no holy spirit.
 

SonJudgment

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2024
1,013
497
83
#78
Using your reasoning Daniel 7:13-14 makes mincemeat of the trinity because thee is no holy spirit.
Not even remotely close considering the Holy Spirit inspired both the vision and the writing of the scripture in the very first place. Though I do know that those verses, among many others, pretty much destroys modalism. Then one considers even the deeper implications that Jesus cites this verse specifically causing the Pharisees, who are the forerunners of the modalist heretics, to rend their clothes and condemn him to death for it. Of further interest Stephen also cites this as the Pharisees are murdering him after he told them quite correctly how they and their fathers always resisted the Holy Spirit. The Session of Christ and the Baptism of Christ both destroy the heresy of modalism in its entirety and also simultaneously prove the trinity doctrine.

Daniel 7:13-14

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
 
Nov 1, 2024
1,551
498
83
#80
Not even remotely close considering the Holy Spirit inspired both the vision and the writing of the scripture in the very first place. Though I do know that those verses, among many others, pretty much destroys modalism. Then one considers even the deeper implications that Jesus cites this verse specifically causing the Pharisees, who are the forerunners of the modalist heretics, to rend their clothes and condemn him to death for it. Of further interest Stephen also cites this as the Pharisees are murdering him after he told them quite correctly how they and their fathers always resisted the Holy Spirit. The Session of Christ and the Baptism of Christ both destroy the heresy of modalism in its entirety and also simultaneously prove the trinity doctrine.

Daniel 7:13-14

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
The pharisees condemned Christ because they knew he was referring to Daniel 7:13-14 when he said they would see him coming in the clouds. In other words, they condemned him for claiming to be the fulfillment of that prophecy. Has nothing to do with your imaginary modalism thing