What I want to do I don't : What I don't I do

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#1
Romans 7
7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

>the Law is not sinful. The Law exposes the CONDITION of mans heart. The Law exposes SIN. It what we INHERITED from Adam's nature, such that all born into this world are born into this nature. A baby however is not guilty under the Law, as we will see below. You only fall under the death penalty through conscience. Paul will explain this shortly.

9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

> What Paul is saying here is that he was once without guilt (a baby, or a young child). However when he reached an age of accountability, and he, either through the law or conscience (law written on the heart) became aware that he had transgressed either the law or his conscience. He knew that what he was doing was wrong. The moment he did this, he came under the spiritual death penalty. That which was in Pauls inherited nature (sin) took advantage of the fact that there was a law, and slay him.


12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

>Paul says here that the problem is not that the law is evil, or that the law is the killer. Rather sins true nature is fully exposed for what it is. IT (Sin) is the killer.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

>Paul acknowledges the condition he has inherited from Adam

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.

>Paul here writes as someone who was one of the most zealous Pharisees. Before he came to Christ, nobody at the time had more passion in pursuing and persecuting the Church, for he was the chosen vessel by the leaders to chase down every Christian believer and throw them into prison or have them killed. He had a love for God’s word as given in the Torah, and truly believed he was doing God’s work by persecuting the church. Yet we find this same man saying that even throughout all of his zeal for the Law of Moses, he could not actually fulfil the law of Moses. For the good that he WANTED to do, he couldn’t. And the evil that he wanted to AVOID, he couldn’t.

20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

>Here we have a situation of the AS YET unregenerated man, who is comprised of BODY (FLESH) and a SOUL. He is saying here that there is a nature that dwells within Paul’s BODY/FLESH that leads and directs his actions, and overpowers his MIND such that His mind is subject to the desires of fulfilling what his fleshly nature wants. Even though by his mind he DOESN’T WANT TO fulfil the desires of the flesh, he finds himself powerless to resist its drawings. He acknowledges he is a prisoner in this state. (IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT PAUL IS STILL EXPLAINING WHAT HIS LIFE WAS LIKE BEFORE THE CONVERSION)

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

>Paul here realises he needs a SAVIOUR from this condition. And he rightly identifies that the only solution is Jesus Christ. His mind is a slave to God’s Law, but he carries around with him the flesh which is a slave to sin. How does he receive this victory? This is answered in the very next verses in Chapter 8.

Romans 8 (a continuation)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
>Here we have the solution that Jesus Christ brings. He gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit. He knows that your old nature is powerless to ultimately resist the flesh, so he gives us the gift of the Spirit of Grace to LEAD US.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

>A new law, called the “Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus” comes into effect, which supercedes and nullifies the “Law of the Sin and Death”. To those who choose to be led by the Spirit of God, we have absolute security and salvation. Sin is NO LONGER the Master. Its power to slay you has been dethroned. If you will get into agreement (your Mind/Soul) with living according to the Spirit, and not according to the flesh, then there remains no condemnation upon you. And the powervto live by the Spirit exists. You are no longer a slave to your old nature. We become slaves unto righteousness in Christ Jesus. How then do you live your new life accordingly? Let’s see in the next verses.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

>Here is how you live out your life in the Spirit. By what you SET YOUR MIND UPON. This is still your choice. Do you set your mind (SOUL) upon the flesh ---- well then you will fulfil the lusts of the flesh. Do you set your mind on things ABOVE, i.e. the things of the Spirit. Well then you will be led by the Spirit and NOT fulfil the lusts of the flesh.


So in summary, the Romans 7 piece now becomes clearer. It was never meant to be taken out of context like it has been done throughout the church age. It is the state of helplessness that Paul found himself in before his conversion experience.
 

dodgingstones

Active member
Nov 20, 2019
430
237
43
#2
This being based on your opinion / interpretation, right?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
5,634
1,130
113
#3
Here's another viewpoint on what is being covered by Paul in Romans 7 (you can tell me what you see is faulty with this view):


[quoting Wm R Newell's Commentary on Rom7]

So then, I myself with the mind, indeed, serve God's Law; but with the flesh sin's law.

Before beginning the study of this great struggle of Paul's, let us get it settled firmly in our minds that Paul is here exercised not at all about pardon, but about deliverance: “Who shall deliver me from this body of death?” The whole question is concerning indwelling sin, as a power; and not committed sins, as a danger.
Mark also that while (as we shall show) the indwelling Holy Spirit is the Christian's sole power against the flesh, He is not known in this struggle; but it is Paul himself against the flesh--with the Law prescribing a holy walk, but furnishing no power whatever for it.

Even the fact of deliverance through Christ from the Law (described in the fourth and sixth verses), is most evidently not known during this conflict with the flesh, (This fact itself marks the conflict as one that preceded the revelation to the apostle of his being dead to the Law, not under law: for such knowledge would have made the struggle impossible.)
Therefore this conflict of Paul's, instead of being an example to you, is a warning to you to keep out of it by means of God's plain words that you are not under law but under grace.

But now you will adopt one of two courses: either you will read of and avoid the great struggle Paul had, under law, to make the flesh obedient by law,--with its consequent discovery of no good in him, and no strength; with his despairing cry, “Who shall deliver me?” and the blessed discovery of deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ and by the indwelling Spirit: and this is, of course, the true way,--for you are not under law. It is the God-honoring path, for it is the way of faith. It is the wisest, because in it you profit by the struggle and testimony of another, written out for your benefit.

The second course, (and alas, the one followed by most in their distress and longing after a holy life), is to go through practically the same struggle as Paul had,--until you discover for yourself experimentally what he found. In this latter course you will be like Bunyan's pilgrim who fell into the Slough of Despond. [then he quotes from Pilgrim's Progress by Bunyan]

And, if we can learn from Paul's struggle in this Seventh Chapter, the lessons Paul seeks to teach us--of the fact that we cannot be what we would, because of the inveterate, incurable evil of our flesh--of “the sin that dwelleth in us,” and that deliverance is “through Christ Jesus our Lord,”--through faith in Him, as having become identified with us as we were, and having thus effected our death, with Him, to sin, and all the “I must” claims of our old standing: so that we count ourselves dead to sin, and alive unto God in Christ Jesus,--it will be well! We shall be blessed!

But if we refuse to learn the lessons Paul would teach us here--of the great facts of our deliverance in Christ from “the power of sin which is the Law” (1 Corinthians 15:56), we shall not only fail of personal deliverance from sin's power, but we shall soon be traducing all the glorious doctrines of Paul, and be sinking to the doctrine that we must expect to go on sinning and getting forgiveness “till we die,”--which is, of course, putting our own death in the place of Christ's death: for God says we died with Him, and are now free in Him Risen!

--William R Newell, Commentary on Romans 7 [source: BibleHub]

[end quoting; bold, underline, and bracket insert mine, parentheses original]

____________

"And if the Spirit of the One having raised up Jesus out from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised up Christ Jesus out from the dead also will give life ['"quicken," vivify ("animate"); (figuratively) cause what is dead (inoperative) to have life; empower with divine life'] to your mortal bodies [the ones we still live in, in the here and now!], by means of His Spirit dwelling in you." Romans 8:11


[now, quoting from a Commentary on Hebrews 3...]

"As Christendom has largely fallen back from [the] faith into a resumption of these rudiments of the world, which the work and glory of Christ now condemn as weak and "beggarly elements" (Gal. 4). there is like danger of unbelief. It is in truth departure from a living God for forms which He used to do service before Christ came and died atoningly, when redemption from under the law was effected, and the believer passed from bond-service into the status of a son and heir of God, receiving the Spirit of adoption so as to cry Abba, Father. Anything short of this is not Christian relationship; and it is in evident contrast with Jewish subjection to ordinances, to which the Catholic bodies (not Romanist only) have turned back again. It is a deceptive form of unbelief, a going away from the living God to dead forms, because the heart lacks confidence in His grace in Christ.
"So it was with Israel; so it is with Christendom."

--William Kelly

[end quoting; underline and bracketed insert mine, parenthesis original]
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
5,634
1,130
113
#4
^ THIS then has to do with the distinction between:

--Romans 1 through 5:11 covers the subject of "sinS" [sins we commit, etc]; whereas

--Romans 5:12 through end of chpt 8 covers the subject of "Sin" [exactly 40x btw 5:12 and 8:3, if I recall]
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#5
Paul was an educated man and knew how to write tenses. He used the word am and do, not was and did.
He was explaining the truth of the Christian Life using himself as the example.
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#6
Romans 7

15 For that which I do (the failure) I allow not (should have been translated, "I understand not"; these are not the words of an unsaved man, as some claim, but rather a Believer who is trying and failing): for what I would, that do I not (refers to the obedience he wants to render to Christ, but rather fails; why? As Paul explained, the Believer is married to Christ, but is being unfaithful to Christ by spiritually cohabiting with the Law, which frustrates the Grace of God; that means the Holy Spirit will not help such a person, which guarantees failure [Gal. 2:21]); but what I hate, that do I (refers to sin in his life hates, but finds himself unable to stop; unfortunately, due to the fact of not understanding the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, this is the plight of most modern Christians).

16 If then I do that which I would not (presents Paul doing something against his will; he doesn't want to do it, and is trying not to do it, whatever it might be, but finds himself doing it anyway), I consent unto the Law that it is good (simply means that the Law of God is working as it is supposed to work; it defines sin, portraying the fact that the sin nature will rule in man's heart if not addressed properly).

17 Now then it is no more I that do it (this has been misconstrued by many! it means, "I may be failing, but it's not what I want to do "; no true Christian wants to sin because now the Divine Nature is in his life and it is supposed to rule, not the sin nature [2 Peter 1:4]), but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (despite the fact that some Preachers claim the sin nature is gone from the Christian, Paul here plainly says that the sin nature is still in the Christian; however, if our Faith remains constant in the Cross, the sin nature will be dormant, causing us no problem; otherwise, it will cause great problems; while the sin nature "dwells" in us, it is not to "rule" in us).

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing (speaks of man's own ability, or rather the lack thereof in comparison to the Holy Spirit, at least when it comes to spiritual things): for to will is present with me (Paul is speaking here of his willpower; regrettably, most modern Christians are trying to live for God by means of willpower, thinking falsely that since they have come to Christ, they are now free to say "no" to sin; that is the wrong way to look at the situation; the Believer cannot live for God by the strength of willpower; it alone is not enough; the Believer must exercise Faith in Christ, which automatically says, "no" to the things of the world); but how to perform that which is good I find not (outside of the Cross, it is impossible to find a way to do good).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#7
Romans 7

19 For the good that I would I do not (if I depend on self, and not the Cross): but the evil which I would not (don't want to do), that I do (which is exactly what every Believer will do no matter how hard he tries to do otherwise, if he tries to live this outside of the Cross [Gal. 2:20-21]).

20 Now if I do that I would not (which is exactly what will happen if the Believer tries to live this life outside of God's Prescribed Order), it is no more I that do it, but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (this emphatically states that the Believer has a sin nature; in the original Greek Text, if it contains the definite article before the word "sin" which originally did read "the sin," it is not speaking of acts of sin, but rather the sin nature or the evil nature; the idea is not getting rid of the sin nature, which actually cannot be done, but rather controlling it, which the Apostle has told us how to do in Rom., Chapters. 6 and 8; when the Trump sounds, we will be changed and there will be no more sin nature [Rom. 8:23]).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#8
Romans 7

21 I find then a Law (does not refer in this case to the Law of Moses, but rather to the "Law of sin and death" [Rom. 8:2]), that, when I would do good, evil (the evil nature) is present with me (the idea is that the sin nature is always going to be with the Believer; there is no hint in the Greek that its stay is temporary, at least until the Trump sounds; we can successfully address the sin nature in only one way, and that is by Faith in Christ and the Cross, which Paul will detail in the next Chapter).

22 For I delight in the Law of God (refers to the moral Law of God ensconced in the Ten Commandments) after the inward man (refers to the spirit and soul of man which has now been regenerated):

23 But I see another Law in my members (the Law of sin and death desiring to use my physical body as an instrument of unrighteousness), warring against the Law of my mind (this is the Law of desire and willpower), and bringing me into captivity to the Law of sin (the Law of sin and death) which is in my members (which will function through my members, and make me a slave to the Law of sin and death; this will happen to the most consecrated Christian if that Christian doesn't constantly exercise Faith in Christ and the Cross that all powers of darkness were defeated [Col. 2:14-15]).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#9
Romans 7

24 O wretched man that I am! (Any Believer who attempts to live for God outside of God's Prescribed Order, which is "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified," will, in fact, live a wretched and miserable existence. This life can only be lived in one way, and that way is the Cross.) Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (The minute he cries "Who," he finds the path to Victory, for he is now calling upon a Person for help, and that Person is Christ; actually, the Greek Text is masculine, indicating a Person).

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord (presents Paul revealing the answer to his own question; Deliverance comes through Jesus Christ Alone, and more particularly what Jesus did at Calvary and the Resurrection). So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God (the "will" is the trigger, but it within itself can do nothing unless the gun is loaded with explosive power; that Power is the Cross); but with the flesh the Law of sin (if the Believer resorts to the "flesh," [i.e., "self-will, self-effort, religious effort"] which refers to his own ability outside of Christ and the Cross, he will not serve the Law of God, but rather the Law of sin).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#10
The sin nature is a result of the Fall. When the believing sinner comes to Christ, the sin nature is made ineffective (Rom. 6:6). It will remain ineffective if the believer maintains unceasing Faith in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14). If the believer ceases to look to Christ and the Cross, but rather makes something else the object of his faith—no matter how good the something else might be—the Holy Spirit will not function in such an atmosphere. He demands exclusively that our Faith be in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 8:1-2,11). If faith is moved to something else, the believer will find himself once again being ruled by the sin nature. That's why Paul said, "Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (which refers to God's Way, which is Christ and the Cross)" (Rom. 6:3-5, 13). Otherwise, the sin nature will rule the believer.

The sin nature has been separated, not eliminated in a Christian life. This evil nature is always present in our current bodies. Victory only comes by Faith in Christ and the Cross. We must acknowledge that we need the GRACE of God to overcome the sins we repeat. The operation of the Holy Spirit is accomplished through Faith and Grace.

Every failure in a Christian life is caused by us resulting to the flesh and trying to do what needs to be done by the means of the flesh, which is guaranteed to fail. When the Believer attempts to function outside of the Cross, the situation becomes impossible. Sin and failure are the constant results, no matter how hard one may try otherwise.

Everything we receive from the Lord, including Sanctification, is a work of Grace. Grace is simply the Goodness of God extended to undeserving people. the whole process is by Faith, as the whole process can only be by Faith.


JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#11
Example:

And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. Exodus 17:11

Amalek was to dwell in the land, but not to reign in it. Romans 6:12 says, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies." The command would be unmeaning if the sin nature were not existing in the Christian. The sin nature dwells in a Believer, but dwells and reigns in an unbeliever.

The hands "upheld" signified total dependence on the Lord. When the Believer is totally depending on the Lord, and what He did for us at the Cross, the victory of Christ belongs to us; otherwise, it doesn't!

Exodus 17:12 says, "But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."

(The "Stone," as well, is symbolic of Christ. Moses exhaustion portrays the fact that our own efforts soon result in spiritual burn-out. But once we are in God's glorious way [sitting on the Stone], the victory is ours. "Aaron" was a Type of Christ as our Great High Priest, and "Hur," whose name means "light," speaks to us of the Holy Spirit. This is the help afforded the Child of God. But unfortunately, most Christians are trying to hold up their hands [trusting in God] by their own personal strength, which is doomed to failure.)

The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation. Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross, understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory. When we stay "victory" we are speaking Victory in every capacity, be it spiritual, financial, domestically, physical, etc. God's Prescribed Order of Victory is "the Cross of Christ."

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

Exodus 17:13 says, "And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword." (The "sword" here is a Type of the Word of God [Eph. 6:17]. The Word of God holds the answer to every single problem which pertains to "Life and Godliness" [2 Peter 1:3-4].)

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,335
527
113
#12
Works of the flesh
Paul tells us this in the 5th Chapter of Galatians. The entire Book of Galatians, but especially the 5th Chapter, is a warning from Paul to the Church at Galatia, which is also meant for us. The warning is that if they place their faith in anything except “Christ and Him Crucified,” that “Christ shall profit you nothing” (Gal. 5:2).

The Apostle goes on to say that if the Believer doesn’t adhere to the Way of the Spirit, which is the Way of the Cross, then works of the flesh will manifest themselves. He said:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).

Now let me say it again, because it is so very important:
If the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross of Christ, as it regards Sanctification, then, in some way, one or more of these “works of the flesh” are going to manifest themselves in his life. As stated, such is inevitable! The first four, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness,” are obvious and easily understood. But the modern Christian quickly dismisses “idolatry, witchcraft, and heresies,” thinking they do not really apply today.

Let us address that:
First of all, any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.”
Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.

JSM
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#13
Paul was an educated man and knew how to write tenses. He used the word am and do, not was and did.
He was explaining the truth of the Christian Life using himself as the example.
Verse 24a brings it to the present: 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

When writing this he was already delivered through Jesus Christ. So why would he ask the question? Its because he is using this verse as the connecting bridge between his old life without Christ, and his new Life in Christ.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#14
Verse 24a brings it to the present: 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

When writing this he was already delivered through Jesus Christ. So why would he ask the question? Its because he is using this verse as the connecting bridge between his old life without Christ, and his new Life in Christ.
No sir.
You don't get to change the text to suit what you want it to mean, and to fit your theological mumbo jumbo.
He is speaking in present tense from verse 14.
Good day sir.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#15
Verse 24a brings it to the present: 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

When writing this he was already delivered through Jesus Christ. So why would he ask the question? Its because he is using this verse as the connecting bridge between his old life without Christ, and his new Life in Christ.
You even left out the last half of verse 25 so you could do violence to the scriptures. The closing part of that statement makes it abundantly clear that he is talking about the internal struggle of the Christian.
Do Not Address me in Attempt to Twist Scripture! I find it abhorrent.

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:25 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.7.25.NASB
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#16
You even left out the last half of verse 25 so you could do violence to the scriptures. The closing part of that statement makes it abundantly clear that he is talking about the internal struggle of the Christian.
Do Not Address me in Attempt to Twist Scripture! I find it abhorrent.

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:25 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.7.25.NASB
Notice I put in verse 24a …..see, wasn't trying to be deceptive at all. I have also in turn, quoted the entire section in the original OP. No removal of anything there either.
So lets discuss the second half of the verse (which wasn't the point I was making, but happy to discuss it). He says the following:

Romans 7
24b So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There are two parts. The mind serving the law of God. The Flesh nature (which still remains with us until we get new bodies in the glorification) still serves the law of sin. So what is the solution to the problem. Jesus Christ. Look at what the NEXT TWO verses in Romans 8 are:

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

I will spell this out for you since you attacked me as being disingenuous. I will use CAPS so that your eyes may see.
DO YOU SEE THE TWO RED HIGHLIGHTED PARTS ABOVE. DO YOU SEE WHAT LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS DOES TO THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. IT MEANS, AND I AM SPELLING IT OUT FOR YOU, THAT ALTHOUGH WE CARRY AROUND OUR SINFUL NATURE IN THE FLESH, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO YIELD TO ITS LUSTS BECAUSE LIFE IN JESUS CHRIST HAS MORE POWER.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#17
Notice I put in verse 24a …..see, wasn't trying to be deceptive at all. I have also in turn, quoted the entire section in the original OP. No removal of anything there either.
So lets discuss the second half of the verse (which wasn't the point I was making, but happy to discuss it). He says the following:

Romans 7
24b So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There are two parts. The mind serving the law of God. The Flesh nature (which still remains with us until we get new bodies in the glorification) still serves the law of sin. So what is the solution to the problem. Jesus Christ. Look at what the NEXT TWO verses in Romans 8 are:

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

I will spell this out for you since you attacked me as being disingenuous. I will use CAPS so that your eyes may see.
DO YOU SEE THE TWO RED HIGHLIGHTED PARTS ABOVE. DO YOU SEE WHAT LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS DOES TO THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. IT MEANS, AND I AM SPELLING IT OUT FOR YOU, THAT ALTHOUGH WE CARRY AROUND OUR SINFUL NATURE IN THE FLESH, WE NO LONGER HAVE TO YIELD TO ITS LUSTS BECAUSE LIFE IN JESUS CHRIST HAS MORE POWER.
When did I "attack" you?
I refuted your statement that Paul was speaking of his past prior to Christ until verse 24. When he is clearly speaking in present tense from verse 14. You chose to abuse the scriptures, and you chose to address me directly. Finally, in your closing statement, you have said some truth.
Good day sir
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,442
2,923
113
#18
Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

>Here we have a situation of the AS YET unregenerated man, who is comprised of BODY (FLESH) and a SOUL. He is saying here that there is a nature that dwells within Paul’s BODY/FLESH that leads and directs his actions, and overpowers his MIND such that His mind is subject to the desires of fulfilling what his fleshly nature wants. Even though by his mind he DOESN’T WANT TO fulfil the desires of the flesh, he finds himself powerless to resist its drawings. He acknowledges he is a prisoner in this state. (IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT PAUL IS STILL EXPLAINING WHAT HIS LIFE WAS LIKE BEFORE THE CONVERSION)


I reject the interpretation that this is Paul taking about His past, Paul was still a sinner in his fallen flesh but His spirit loved the Word of God this was later confirmed by him saying:: this

O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Also in other scriptures Paul declared himself a chief sinner and also John said that anyone who declared themselves to be without sin did not have the truth..

1 Timothy 1: KJV
15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."


Paul says that every Christian should adopt that saying and He did not say i was once chief.. as in past tense.. He saud I am Chief as in he was at the time of writing a chief sinner..

1 John 1: KJV
8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#19
I reject the interpretation that this is Paul taking about His past, Paul was still a sinner in his fallen flesh but His spirit loved the Word of God this was later confirmed by him saying:: this
You then say that Paul lived according to the Flesh in his daily walk. If you assert that, that you assert that Paul is not be saved. You then assert that Paul is no different to the unregenerated man (for that is who he is describing). You then assert that the New Birth has no impact on a believer versus the unregenerated man. You then also overrule everything he says hereafter about the victory that Life in the Spirit has over the Flesh.

Nah - I will stick with what it plainly says.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#20
You then say that Paul lived according to the Flesh in his daily walk. If you assert that, that you assert that Paul is not be saved. You then assert that Paul is no different to the unregenerated man (for that is who he is describing). You then assert that the New Birth has no impact on a believer versus the unregenerated man. You then also overrule everything he says hereafter about the victory that Life in the Spirit has over the Flesh.

Nah - I will stick with what it plainly says.
Romans 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.