What if Daniel did have a gap between the 69th and 70th weeks?

[iamsoandso]

I don't know for sure how the mark was manifested and at what time frame it was in (other than the 1st century). John relates it but it does not appear in any of the gospels or other letters. So attempting to explain it is not something I really concern myself with.

But if you want to delve into revelation look at what Jesus said about "mountains fall on us" and what John stated in his revelation:

(Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.)

(Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck)

(Luke 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.)

John in his revelation:

(Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood)
.
.
(Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb)

(Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?)

John specifically uses the "fall on us" motif of Jesus with the women of Jerusalem which indicates the sixth seal was in the women's lifetime.

(Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John)

So following your reasoning in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+13:4-6&version=KJV do you think the day of the Lord came when Isaiah said that also?

 

[azamzimtoti]

So following your reasoning in https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+13:4-6&version=KJV do you think the day of the Lord came when Isaiah said that also?

The language is similar, it was a day of the Lord but it relates to:

(Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.)

 

[iamsoandso]

The language is similar, it was a day of the Lord but it relates to:

(Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.)

In other words they were destroyed, carried into captivity and then they returned to Israel as an nation and built another Temple after that Day of the Lord correct?

 

[azamzimtoti]

In other words they were destroyed, carried into captivity and then they returned to Israel as an nation and built another Temple after that Day of the Lord correct?

Is that how you read it?

 

[iamsoandso]

Is that how you read it?

It's self evident that they went into captivity and Solomon's Temple destroyed and then afterward they returned and another was built.

 

[azamzimtoti]

It's self evident that they went into captivity and Solomon's Temple destroyed and then afterward they returned and another was built.

So we at least agree on this

I do like dem trick questions.

 

[iamsoandso]

So we at least agree on this

I do like dem trick questions.

How long does the Scriptures say they would be carried into captivity this time? https://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/21-24.htm

 

[azamzimtoti]

All depends on what you consider the "time of the gentiles" to be and how you understand it.

(Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months)

That's approximately the time of the war of 66-70 AD - now you are going to ask "what's next"?

 

[iamsoandso]

All depends on what you consider the "time of the gentiles" to be and how you understand it.

(Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months)

That's approximately the time of the war of 66-70 AD - now you are going to ask "what's next"?

Were the gentiles not treading it under foot in ad71,72,73 and much longer than just ad66-70? Why are the gentiles treading on it and the Jews carried into captivity much longer than ad66-70 as you suggest instead of 42 literal months?

 

[azamzimtoti]

Were the gentiles not treading it under foot in ad71,72,73 and much longer than just ad66-70? Why are the gentiles treading on it and the Jews carried into captivity much longer than ad66-70 as you suggest instead of 42 literal months?

You could say that - but what is the prophetic significance? Then we are back to the 70 weeks and the seal up vision and prophecy.

 

[iamsoandso]

You could say that - but what is the prophetic significance? Then we are back to the 70 weeks and the seal up vision and prophecy.

Exactly they fell by the edge of the sword and the gentiles have tread down the city and held them in captivity much longer than just ad66-70 and so Rev.11:2 and https://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/21-24.htm would not be the same event. In the event in Luke it states how long they would be killed,in captivity and the city tread under foot and so afterwards those things end.

In Revelation 11 the two witnesses are Christian unlike the Jews who denied Jesus who were involved in the siege of ad66-70 in Jerusalem. After the two witnesses finish their prophecies they are killed and then rise and ascend to heaven. In ad70 the Jews(denied Jesus as Messiah) died in the war/siege and then the rest were carried away into captivity as Jesus stated in Luke(Jews/Christians,don't confuse the two).

 

[Diakonos]

There is no gap in Daniel, neither was there a "setting aside of Israel for his new program". This is a dispensational invention.

The church, built on the foundation of the apostles was and is the "program". The "program" was to gather the 12 tribes to Messiah which would include Gentiles.

(Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened.)

Paul states the chosen have obtained what blinded Israel was seeking. This means that blinded Israel was not seeking what was being given which would be a physical kingdom.

Thus dispensationalism is presenting the same "theology" of blinded Israel.

You can't change Jesus' words "my kingdom is not of this world" to "my kingdom is not of this world until 2000 years later".

What you've said here is understandable. Is this the only part of my comment that you disagree with?

 

[Ceviche]

Can I suggest to be respectful, gentle and kind when we participate in a discussion?
I think the Bible explains itself, in Dan. 9: 26 it says: after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one will be eliminated...
this verse speaks, clearly, of Jesus. Just take in consideration that Church Age was a mystery for the jews

 

[azamzimtoti]

What you've said here is understandable. Is this the only part of my comment that you disagree with?

Well no, your whole premise is based on a gap:

"This means that there is an interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.” Christ’s crucifixion, then, was in that interval, right after His Triumphal Entry, which concluded the 69th “seven.” "

It would take 3 times what you've written to address your post.

 

[KJV1611]

So, I ask again...

"Why, then, does it say of [that... (entity?)], "WHOSE COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT]"... 2Th2:9a... "

What are you saying the "[whose] COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT]" refers to (since you're saying it refers to the "ego / flesh")?

You mean, when a person is BORN? or when they are CONCEIVED? or after they are born again and then LOSE IT? or... when are you saying this "COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT]" speaks of in each individual's life, in this verse?



I personally haven't "thrown [it] out the window". I've addressed it numerous times.

I've said, Paul (whenever he speaks of "the Church which is His body" as "temple") NEVER uses the "definite article ['the']".



In Revelation 11:1, the phrases "the temple of God," and "THEM that worship THEREIN" are clearly DISTINCT entities/items.

And the time-period named in that passage (v.2) is the same as that of Revelation 13:5-7,1 (re: the "beast out from the sea," which passage is PARALLEL to some things we see also in Daniel 7:25,20-24,27 [7a,13a] [and this passage includes a description: "whose look is more stout than his fellows" v.20b]).

Then, I've made the point that Jesus' use of the wording "abomination [SINGULAR] of desolation SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL THE PROPHET..." (Matt24:15) and how that points back to the "abomination [SINGULAR]" used in Daniel 12:11 "the abomination [SINGULAR] which maketh desolate SET UP [H5414]" and I had provided an entire post (several times) on the PARALLELS to this "SET UP [H5414]" word, as found in related passages elsewhere (tho different words) like "SITTETH [transitive verb, in that verse]" and "STANDING [transitive verb, in that verse]"...

I do not recall much (if any) response to that post, though.

And then, with regard to that Daniel 12:11 verse, I pointed out how verse 13 tells of Daniel when he will "[rest, in death, and] STAND in thy lot [i.e. be resurrected ('to stand again on the earth')] at the END of the DAYS [the END of the DAYS referred to IN THAT CONTEXT, vv.6-7,1,11, etc... But NO ONE can tell me "WHEN" Daniel did that (was resurrected, to 'STAND in thy LOT') in their scenario/scheme-of-things-viewpoint... because it hasn't yet come to pass. It's "FUTURE," just as all the other things I've pointed out about the "CHRONOLOGY issues" [that Scripture itself reveals] show, as well.

Sorry for the delay, I've been doing family fun stuff... camping and fishing.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The man of sin, the man that sits in the temple of God, is destroyed by the SPIRIT of the Lord's mouth. What is the spirit of the Lord's mouth? It's the bible.

What happens when a person is born again by the incorruptible word of God (the bible)? The man of sin (you) is destroyed and God's takes YOUR place in the temple of God.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
The "Him" in verse 9 comes from, or is created by Satan himself, Satan made him. Show me one place in the bible where Satan creates a human being.


Read verses 9 and 10 very carefully.

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Now eliminate the attributes of Satan in those verses to make it easier to see what is actually being said:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan in THEM that perish.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

 

[KJV1611]

What I think you're trying to say is that Jesus never spoke about literal things, at back of what He was saying on the "surface". He always meant "spiritualized" things. So let's attach "spiritual meanings" to all He spoke of, right?

What I would say, is that you understand what He meant by "eat My flesh" and "drink My blood" because you've compared Scripture with Scripture (John 6:51, 54, 56 with that of other passages in which we can know WHAT He did, and when).

You're agreeing with me. The bible is an esoteric book which hides meaning in passages scattered through out the bible.. The bible is the key to the hidden knowledge.

 

[Diakonos]

Well no, your whole premise is based on a gap:

"This means that there is an interval between the 69th and 70th “sevens.” Christ’s crucifixion, then, was in that interval, right after His Triumphal Entry, which concluded the 69th “seven.” "

It would take 3 times what you've written to address your post.

I just want to know if you agree with the math. Do you?

 

[KJV1611]

Disagree. The Holy Place is wherever God puts His Name. But beyond that, the exact location of the foundation of the Temple is now known almost to a few meters. They will find the foundation. See Bob Cornuke on YouTube. This location is as chosen and Holy as it ever was. As is Jerusalem, Israel, and the Isaelites. Furthermore, the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants must be fulfilled, as they are unconditional. There are vast portions of scripture and prophecy that proclaim the future fulfillment and millenial reign on earth from Jerusalem.

Where does the bible say the "third temple" has to built exactly where the old temple was?

 

[azamzimtoti]

Just take in consideration that Church Age was a mystery for the jews

But it was predicted in the prophets so it was not "plan B" as the dispensationalist theologies would have folks believe.

(Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.)

 

[KJV1611]

This jabbering about the bible being an esoteric book is pathetic gnostic bunk, humbug and rubbish. A grade school child can understand the bible perfectly well. And you cannot?

Yeah that's what the Jews thought when the killed Jesus. Jesus was speaking "His Word" to them straight out of the old testament and they didn't get it. That's an esoteric passage that they didn't understand, do you understand it?

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.